No one here owes me an apology, but I definitely appreciate your sentiment. So thank you.
antosu said:
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- Thread starter BuckNutty
- Start date
mrgreenpants
Sophmore
wow.MililaniBuckeye said:
you're pretty good.
...i had a tshirt with that print..and you're the first person that knew what it meant.
do u still feel this way?BuckNutty said:
i've accepted that this is a rebuilding year....they did lose, what?....45 people to the nfl last year.
...but tressel and company do still need be held accountable.
..and there is never an excuse to lose to a northwestern.
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You guys are the same people that wanted Nugent run out of town during his first five games. I would love to see some of you play in front 105,000 know it alls. It is not easy.
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slobberknocker
All-American
man wish i hadn't gone to bed so soon ding ding lets get ready to rumble. I'll officiate if you havn't gotten someone I do it all day at work so Iam pretty good at it. Lots of blood is a plus and maybe a broken limb or two. 
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Savante
The Ruler's Back
I don't understand why people can assume Smith is the better player. He's not proven it, and they see these guys EVERY DAY IN PRACTICE. It's 2004 -- Tressel isn't going to ignore the better QB because of the color of his skin. Smith would have gotten a chance if he showed it in practice. I think that with Zwick struggling, we need to give Smith a chance. If he earns time, we play him, otherwise, hopefully it'll shut the haters up. It's very, very easy to love and support a second string QB, because if they're just sitting on the bench you can holler for them to be put in. Then, if they suck? You can blame it on not getting the practice reps. I like Smith, and I like Zwick, and I'm not opposed to giving Smith a shot. But there's got to be a reason he didn't (even before the interview) get the chance. Supposedly, Gary Danielson was at the OSU practice and said Zwick didn't miss a single throw. It's just a matter of translating that into a game, which he's shown at times he can do. Just not lately.
The receivers can't be ignored as a HUGE part of this. Childress is about the only one playing well. He's got hands issue that may or may not show up in practice, and he's also very short and doesn't have a big body, and they aren't calling him the right plays. Don't throw to him like he's a TE, let him catch the ball on the run, for fuck's sake. Zwick did miss him a couple of times, so timing may be an issue. Hall's looked better the last two weeks, but WRs running poor routes can KILL a young QB. At times, I've noticed Hall not being open because he made a lazy cut. So that's an issue. Ginn is a combination of Hall and Childress.. he's not a big, strong possession receiver that a young QB needs.. he's a big play guy that isn't running his routes right yet. That's frustrating. A few times, Zwick has thrown a ball that looks great, but Ginn breaks off his route early and can't get to it. His inexperience is really hurting him. And Holmes...
Holmes is really pissing me off. First, in the Northwestern game, he dropped that ball that may have cost us the game. Second, he can't hold on to the ball. He's probably fumbled at least 5 times this year, and he did the same thing last year. When's he going to learn to protect it? The fumble on the punt was dumb, too. He was almost at full speed, and he tries to catch that? You can't. You pretty much have to be stationary, or at most, starting off jogging like a sprinter. Bad, bad, bad play. He also probably could have caught another ball if he had good hands (he likes to cradle his catches), but didn't really reach for it, and should have dove for that pass late. Zwick loves to look to Santonio, but he's been playing like crap lately, and combined with Zwick's sudden loss of accuracy, that's a bad combination.
I'd like to see Lyons get some more time at WR. If he can run his routes right, he's a big boy and has soft hands and is a QB's dream. But he might not be ready.
They're trying. Tressel has no clue how to run a wide open offense, but he's trying. Hopefully we realize that Bollman is not the guy that's going to help us do that and we get somebody new. Seriously.. we have got to fix the passing game. That and the defensive backs really lost the game for us. Whitner had a good game, and Youbouty played pretty well, but EJ and Salley both gave up TDs by playing the ball poorly. EJ needs to knock that down and not go for the pick, and Salley flat out quit on the last TD (it looked like Stocco was throwing it away, but still, you can't stop running). The running game was churning in the first half, then we lost our creativity and it stopped, and by the middle of the third we had pretty much abandoned it.. something that doesn't help the passing game, as they know what we're doing.
Everyone yesterday at the game who harassed me and laughed at me for saying Zwick would be the man, all I said was "Carson Palmer". "Carson Palmer". "Carson Palmer". Over and over again. I think at times, Zwick has looked like an All-American. He's still composed, and early in the season, he was throwing the ball well, but making the wrong reads and really being too much of a gunslinger. Now, he is playing too conservative and not hitting the receivers as much, afraid to throw a pick. Hopefully he can get somewhere in between, because I definitely think he can.
The receivers can't be ignored as a HUGE part of this. Childress is about the only one playing well. He's got hands issue that may or may not show up in practice, and he's also very short and doesn't have a big body, and they aren't calling him the right plays. Don't throw to him like he's a TE, let him catch the ball on the run, for fuck's sake. Zwick did miss him a couple of times, so timing may be an issue. Hall's looked better the last two weeks, but WRs running poor routes can KILL a young QB. At times, I've noticed Hall not being open because he made a lazy cut. So that's an issue. Ginn is a combination of Hall and Childress.. he's not a big, strong possession receiver that a young QB needs.. he's a big play guy that isn't running his routes right yet. That's frustrating. A few times, Zwick has thrown a ball that looks great, but Ginn breaks off his route early and can't get to it. His inexperience is really hurting him. And Holmes...
Holmes is really pissing me off. First, in the Northwestern game, he dropped that ball that may have cost us the game. Second, he can't hold on to the ball. He's probably fumbled at least 5 times this year, and he did the same thing last year. When's he going to learn to protect it? The fumble on the punt was dumb, too. He was almost at full speed, and he tries to catch that? You can't. You pretty much have to be stationary, or at most, starting off jogging like a sprinter. Bad, bad, bad play. He also probably could have caught another ball if he had good hands (he likes to cradle his catches), but didn't really reach for it, and should have dove for that pass late. Zwick loves to look to Santonio, but he's been playing like crap lately, and combined with Zwick's sudden loss of accuracy, that's a bad combination.
I'd like to see Lyons get some more time at WR. If he can run his routes right, he's a big boy and has soft hands and is a QB's dream. But he might not be ready.
They're trying. Tressel has no clue how to run a wide open offense, but he's trying. Hopefully we realize that Bollman is not the guy that's going to help us do that and we get somebody new. Seriously.. we have got to fix the passing game. That and the defensive backs really lost the game for us. Whitner had a good game, and Youbouty played pretty well, but EJ and Salley both gave up TDs by playing the ball poorly. EJ needs to knock that down and not go for the pick, and Salley flat out quit on the last TD (it looked like Stocco was throwing it away, but still, you can't stop running). The running game was churning in the first half, then we lost our creativity and it stopped, and by the middle of the third we had pretty much abandoned it.. something that doesn't help the passing game, as they know what we're doing.
Everyone yesterday at the game who harassed me and laughed at me for saying Zwick would be the man, all I said was "Carson Palmer". "Carson Palmer". "Carson Palmer". Over and over again. I think at times, Zwick has looked like an All-American. He's still composed, and early in the season, he was throwing the ball well, but making the wrong reads and really being too much of a gunslinger. Now, he is playing too conservative and not hitting the receivers as much, afraid to throw a pick. Hopefully he can get somewhere in between, because I definitely think he can.
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In defense of Zwick
I decided to look at his performance so far versus the level of competition and what I found pretty much perplexes the hell out of me. It's this season in a nutshell actually, some good mixed with more bad equalling a lot of mediocrity and head scratching:
"Good" games for Zwick and opponents NCAA rank in pass D
UC...#86 Zwick-14/26-213 yds-1TD/2 INT
MU...#74 Zwick-18/30-324 yds-3 TD/2 INT
NU....#111 Zwick-18/38-211 yds-1 TD/1 INT
total: 50/94 (.53%) 748 yds (249 ypg) 5 TD/5 INT
Bad Games
NCSU....#1 Zwick-10/21-73 yds-0/0
Wisky....#4 Zwick-15/31-125 yds-0/0
Total: 25/52 (.48%) 198 yds (99 ypg) 0/0
So WTF? Do you cut him slack for 99ypg and no INT's versus the #1 and #4 pass D in the country? I really want to, but then you see his good games and they are all against pretty bad defenses and he puts up the 5/5 on you.
Thoughts?
EDIT*************
Remaining opponents Pass D rank as of 10/10/04
Iowa...#92
IU.......#98
PSU....#36
MSU....#50
PU......#96
scUM...#58
So hopefully things get better, no more top 5 pass D's on the schedule.
I decided to look at his performance so far versus the level of competition and what I found pretty much perplexes the hell out of me. It's this season in a nutshell actually, some good mixed with more bad equalling a lot of mediocrity and head scratching:
"Good" games for Zwick and opponents NCAA rank in pass D
UC...#86 Zwick-14/26-213 yds-1TD/2 INT
MU...#74 Zwick-18/30-324 yds-3 TD/2 INT
NU....#111 Zwick-18/38-211 yds-1 TD/1 INT
total: 50/94 (.53%) 748 yds (249 ypg) 5 TD/5 INT
Bad Games
NCSU....#1 Zwick-10/21-73 yds-0/0
Wisky....#4 Zwick-15/31-125 yds-0/0
Total: 25/52 (.48%) 198 yds (99 ypg) 0/0
So WTF? Do you cut him slack for 99ypg and no INT's versus the #1 and #4 pass D in the country? I really want to, but then you see his good games and they are all against pretty bad defenses and he puts up the 5/5 on you.
Thoughts?
EDIT*************
Remaining opponents Pass D rank as of 10/10/04
Iowa...#92
IU.......#98
PSU....#36
MSU....#50
PU......#96
scUM...#58
So hopefully things get better, no more top 5 pass D's on the schedule.
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Brutus1
Don't be penurious, donate to the BP Spring Dr.
Add fumbles in the equation.
Also, add passes to open receivers that he missed.
211 yds against the 111th pass defense sucks, big time. Especially when you subtract the 'lucky' long pass to Hall. Don't count that as a good one.
One passing td in the last 3 1/2 games? That sucks and it sucks BIG TIME.
The only thing I'll give him credit for is his running has been good in that same period of time, but I don't want running, I want passing!!!
Also, add passes to open receivers that he missed.
211 yds against the 111th pass defense sucks, big time. Especially when you subtract the 'lucky' long pass to Hall. Don't count that as a good one.
One passing td in the last 3 1/2 games? That sucks and it sucks BIG TIME.
The only thing I'll give him credit for is his running has been good in that same period of time, but I don't want running, I want passing!!!
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JXC
17-4 since 2001
EXACTLY Zwick has had his worst games against the best defenses in the country. He also has fixed the turnover problem that he had. WE CANT RUN THE FOOTBALL. No quarterback can be his best when there is no running game. We put him in all these pass situations because of the running game sucking. We can't even run the ball on 3rd and short. The running game is the problem. NOT Justin Zwick. He didn't hit every open reciever. How about the ones he has hit? How about how his decision making has gotten quite excellent? How about the fact that it seems like everytime he goes back to pass, the O-line has already let a defender or two past and Zwick needs to hurry or take a sack? If the offensive line can figure itself out this offense is going to take off.
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DiHard
Guest
i have a feeling that if ant and i were in a room together last night fists probably would have been flying.....not neccessarily because of our stances on quarterback play, but out of being serious buckeye fans who were both way beyond frustrated....
i also suspect we would have picked each other up off the deck and realized just how foolish we had just been....bought each other a beer and talked....
today with a cooler head i apologized to ant and, in fact, told him that i agree that his stance on the qb situation appears to be better than my own....
i also suspect we would have picked each other up off the deck and realized just how foolish we had just been....bought each other a beer and talked....
today with a cooler head i apologized to ant and, in fact, told him that i agree that his stance on the qb situation appears to be better than my own....
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We are all frustrated bro...both of you are great contributors to this place and I'm glad it is a done deal.
Since you guys are cool, you can buy the first round (or 10)when we all get together scUM weekend
Since you guys are cool, you can buy the first round (or 10)when we all get together scUM weekend
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I know what you are saying, but IMO the worst case scenario is Smith comes in for a series and looks good to us ignorant fans - maybe completes an 80 yard TD into busted coverage despite a bad read on his part. Makes a couple of bad decisions but comes out smelling like a rose. Then it never stops.
Your comment on Carson Palmer also got me looking at his stats. Here is an interesting number.
Yesterday in the horrid game that Justin Zwick played that we are all ready to crucify him for he averaged 8.3 yards per pass attempt. Not completion - attempt.
In Palmer's Soph year he averaged 7.02 YPA.
His Junior year - 7.21 YPA.
But then came his banner Senior season ..... where he averaged 8.06 YPA. His senior season he was intercepted 10 times and averaged a negative 2.4 yards every time he carried the ball. This was his Heisman season folks - not his first year behind three new OL playing in the Jim Tressel offensive scheme with no running game.
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kn1f3party
Hall of Fame
I don't think our opinions matter much. Tressel will stick with him. However, if he improves and becomes all we have expected I will back him completely. At the moment, I have to wonder if him being chosen in spring games behind Smith is a clue to the problems.
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ScarletArrow
I'm wearing Gold Pants
With only 5 starts under his belt, the only trends we can look for in JZ are: (a) Is he showing glimpses of what it takes to be a great quarterback? (b) Are the tools in place for him to get better and correct his current mistakes.
Looking for game by game linear growth in his performance this early in his career will only be a study in frustration.
Looking for game by game linear growth in his performance this early in his career will only be a study in frustration.
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