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- Thread starter BuckNutty
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antosu
Senior
I fully understand you Clarity.
Thanks for the clarification. u didn't have to do that but u did. I respect that.
matz2,
I haven't attended any practices this year but I went to several last year and the year before that.
What I seen in person was Smith throwing rocket passes that were accurate but he often went for the big pass play or ran. He want's a td every play. He didn't understand the concept of driving the ball up field. He also didn't know the plays as good as zwick and didn't read defenses as well. So Smith was not ready but had better tools. Note that Smith has been in the film room is reported to be much improved in those areas.
What I seen in Zwick was a coaches son type of qb that was smarter than he was gifted. He was throwing the same stuff in practice that he threw today but others who attended practices told me that he was banged up or something. So I didn't really have a final opinion on his arm.
I will say that wr's seemed to like Smith more but those same wr's were his friends so that doesn't say much.
But Zwick is looking like the same qb that I seen in several practices and although he impressed me a ton against Marshall before the pics, he is way behind Henne who is 18 years old. He needs fast improvement or he needs to get oout of the way.
Thanks for the clarification. u didn't have to do that but u did. I respect that.
matz2,
I haven't attended any practices this year but I went to several last year and the year before that.
What I seen in person was Smith throwing rocket passes that were accurate but he often went for the big pass play or ran. He want's a td every play. He didn't understand the concept of driving the ball up field. He also didn't know the plays as good as zwick and didn't read defenses as well. So Smith was not ready but had better tools. Note that Smith has been in the film room is reported to be much improved in those areas.
What I seen in Zwick was a coaches son type of qb that was smarter than he was gifted. He was throwing the same stuff in practice that he threw today but others who attended practices told me that he was banged up or something. So I didn't really have a final opinion on his arm.
I will say that wr's seemed to like Smith more but those same wr's were his friends so that doesn't say much.
But Zwick is looking like the same qb that I seen in several practices and although he impressed me a ton against Marshall before the pics, he is way behind Henne who is 18 years old. He needs fast improvement or he needs to get oout of the way.
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Zwick did not look particularly good today. Could Smith have done better? Perhaps, but people shouldn't act like he's the biggest problem on this team. How about our front 4 who haven't pressured the quarterback in nearly a month. How about our secondary who have messed up assignments and been beat for touchdowns. How about an O-line that can't seem to get any kind of push on a regular basis. Dropped passes, fumbles, penalties, inability to make defensive adjustments, questionable play calling. There is plenty of blame to go around. Harping on whether or not Troy Smith should be playing just doesn't seem like a priority at this point.
This team is young and is going to have to go through some growing pains, more than most Buckeye fans would like to see. It will be interesting to see how many seats on the bandwagon open up.
This team is young and is going to have to go through some growing pains, more than most Buckeye fans would like to see. It will be interesting to see how many seats on the bandwagon open up.
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BuckNutty said:
Plenty already are opening...I'd like to help a few pricks off the wagon myself
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3yardsandacloud
Administrator Emeritus
By far Zwicks worst game. No excuses. I think he's the guy for our future, BUT Smith should have gotten a shot today in the second half. I don't care who you are. When you don't have it, you don't have it. It happens in games. Give someone else a chance to change momentum. Even if it's a couple of series so that Zwick can see the game from a different perspective. This is the first time I've thought that Zwick had almost nothing going in a game. It does no good for the team or Zwick to let him continue to fail throughout a game.
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VprHis
Get off my lawn, you hooligans!
Well. According to the announcer (forget which) who DID go to OSU's practice this week, JZ was throwing beautifully all day long.
During the game, however, he stopped stepping into the throws, his mechanics got sloppy. His hurt ankle might have been part of it, but I'm guessing it's nerves/adrenaline/imminent demolition at the hands of Hawthorne & Co.
IT'll come around. This wouldn't be such an issue if he'd gotten some more meaningful reps last year (when it was important to keep McMullen in the reps). Look for solid performances from JZ as the season progresses. Worst case, we'll see how he does next year. There are more QB's in the pipeline. Either JZ will continue to improve or someone will supplant him.
It's that simple.
During the game, however, he stopped stepping into the throws, his mechanics got sloppy. His hurt ankle might have been part of it, but I'm guessing it's nerves/adrenaline/imminent demolition at the hands of Hawthorne & Co.
IT'll come around. This wouldn't be such an issue if he'd gotten some more meaningful reps last year (when it was important to keep McMullen in the reps). Look for solid performances from JZ as the season progresses. Worst case, we'll see how he does next year. There are more QB's in the pipeline. Either JZ will continue to improve or someone will supplant him.
It's that simple.
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matz2
Sheeeeeeeeeeeit!
Thanks antosu. I am both pro-Zwick and pro-Smith. I want them both to succeed at OSU and after. However, since I do not live in Columbus, I have never been to a practice. The most I have seen of Smith was in the Spring game last year and he looked pretty good (since he was pretty much hadicapped this year). He made an amazing escape from a sack and then delivered a rope on a 15 yard out. I give the benefit of the doubt to Tressel and company since I cannot make an educated argument for Smith.
Has Zwick struggled - definitely, but as osugrad21 has posted, I don't think he is the root of OSU's struggles. When your oline gets no consistant push and your running game is non-existant, the defense is going to key on a inexperienced and young QB.
Another thing that people haven't mentioned (at least I haven't noticed) is that other that Holmes, our WR are not going to scare anyone. The loss of Jenkins was HUGE to this offense.
Has Zwick struggled - definitely, but as osugrad21 has posted, I don't think he is the root of OSU's struggles. When your oline gets no consistant push and your running game is non-existant, the defense is going to key on a inexperienced and young QB.
Another thing that people haven't mentioned (at least I haven't noticed) is that other that Holmes, our WR are not going to scare anyone. The loss of Jenkins was HUGE to this offense.
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bukIpower
Head Coach
Hey Soul, Matter fact I am a coach.
Not to be a smart ass but I coach football, and I don't know all the answers but I do know this. That Zwick was given plenty of time, and he just didn't get it done. Why should the team have to go down in performance if zwick can't get the ball to a wide open guy? Did you see how he missed Santonio on the deep routes early? did you see the 15 yard outs he over threw, did you see him standing in the pocket with plenty of time just to get sacked after holding the ball for 4-5 seconds. Whatever you saw you did not see the same thing. Zwick is going to be a good ball player, but right now he's not all their so what a better time than to give a kid who still thinks he's the #1 QB a chance to prove what he's got
Not to be a smart ass but I coach football, and I don't know all the answers but I do know this. That Zwick was given plenty of time, and he just didn't get it done. Why should the team have to go down in performance if zwick can't get the ball to a wide open guy? Did you see how he missed Santonio on the deep routes early? did you see the 15 yard outs he over threw, did you see him standing in the pocket with plenty of time just to get sacked after holding the ball for 4-5 seconds. Whatever you saw you did not see the same thing. Zwick is going to be a good ball player, but right now he's not all their so what a better time than to give a kid who still thinks he's the #1 QB a chance to prove what he's got
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GoofyBuckeye
Nutis Maximus
Just got home from the game.
Everyone in the stands was bitching like crazy about Zwick and Tressel's attrocious play calling..
Time and time again, Zwick had Hamby or someone on the strong side open and he missed the read. It seemed like Zwick was always looking weak side. I don't know if it's Tressel's calls or what but the offense is horrible when it runs or passes weak side. It was apparent to everyone that Zwick couldn't make adjustment on blitzes and if anyone noticed, everytime OSU lined up with Ginn and Childress to the left side, Wiscie would blitz a corner or OLB and move the safety up to guard the slot. Zwick would then avoid that side and instead of passing it to the side where the biggest play could happen, he was gunning it to the weak side hitting no one...I mean, we're sitting there pointing at the left side screaming for him to throw it there.
I think I saw one time where Holmes was not doubled by a safety when he lined up strong side, leaving everyone else wide open. Pathetic.
Is it me or does Zwick have a terrible time throwing anything but a dart on the deep throws? Whatever happened to putting a little loft in the ball?
Zwick was only good when he had time to sit back and be in the pocket and look off guys. Whenever he had to move (the outside blitz problem) he was awful. The ball was wobbly and he was overthrowing everything. Seems to just be rushing way too much and you can tell he was having trouble deciding whether to run or throw...this is where Smith is an ace at.
Also, everyone in the stands was calling for Smith. I don't know what the problem is but when you can't get time for your QB to throw and your QB can't move and hit his targets then a change needs to made, plain and simple.
And I can't agree with some people that said Tressel opened up the playbook unless his version is becoming average rather than poor as far as trickery goes cause it was pathetic. The weak side shit has to stop. I kept thinking I was watching Krenzel and the offense play in early last year when they were doing the same shit. The OL cannot figure out assignments and are getting blown over by stronger players.
I love Tressel, but he has no business running the offense anymore.
Everyone in the stands was bitching like crazy about Zwick and Tressel's attrocious play calling..
Time and time again, Zwick had Hamby or someone on the strong side open and he missed the read. It seemed like Zwick was always looking weak side. I don't know if it's Tressel's calls or what but the offense is horrible when it runs or passes weak side. It was apparent to everyone that Zwick couldn't make adjustment on blitzes and if anyone noticed, everytime OSU lined up with Ginn and Childress to the left side, Wiscie would blitz a corner or OLB and move the safety up to guard the slot. Zwick would then avoid that side and instead of passing it to the side where the biggest play could happen, he was gunning it to the weak side hitting no one...I mean, we're sitting there pointing at the left side screaming for him to throw it there.
I think I saw one time where Holmes was not doubled by a safety when he lined up strong side, leaving everyone else wide open. Pathetic.
Is it me or does Zwick have a terrible time throwing anything but a dart on the deep throws? Whatever happened to putting a little loft in the ball?
Zwick was only good when he had time to sit back and be in the pocket and look off guys. Whenever he had to move (the outside blitz problem) he was awful. The ball was wobbly and he was overthrowing everything. Seems to just be rushing way too much and you can tell he was having trouble deciding whether to run or throw...this is where Smith is an ace at.
Also, everyone in the stands was calling for Smith. I don't know what the problem is but when you can't get time for your QB to throw and your QB can't move and hit his targets then a change needs to made, plain and simple.
And I can't agree with some people that said Tressel opened up the playbook unless his version is becoming average rather than poor as far as trickery goes cause it was pathetic. The weak side shit has to stop. I kept thinking I was watching Krenzel and the offense play in early last year when they were doing the same shit. The OL cannot figure out assignments and are getting blown over by stronger players.
I love Tressel, but he has no business running the offense anymore.
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ScarletArrow
I'm wearing Gold Pants
The 'Statue of Liberty' play was a thing of beauty. Brought back memories of those pee-wee glory days.
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slobberknocker
All-American
zwick has some technique problems to go along with his mental problems. I'll go into these later. hey grad21 kick a few off for me I got your back
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
Ginn is not running proper routes or not finishing them off and letting up. Thats why h is not getting the ball more on offense. When he does learn to run his routes better, I agree with you that he will be something to see on the field .southernbuckeye said:
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diehardbuckeye
All-American
Does it really matter which QB is back there when we can't run the ball at all. I have not had the sky is falling metality yet but it is getting pretty close. With Iowa coming up in Iowa city it is going to be a close one. I felt that Wisky was going to get this one, doesn't Alveraz (sp?) have the best record against Tressel? But on the other hand there were good plays and bad plays in this game. I will say that I hate seeing the 5 wide shotgun formation being our bread and butter but if we are not going to have Joe play FB and open holes and let Pittman, or Ross get behind him then there is a problem. It also seemed like Wisky just made more plays when they had too. How many 3rd. downs got converted with the tight end?, way too many. It seems like there are not enough adjustments coming out of the half. Something needs to be done and my thoughts are that every position on the feild should be open for a starting spot in practice this week. Get some competition in there and see who wants it more. Weather that is Zwick vs. Smith, or even Carpenter vs. Freeman, hell even Nugent vs. Houston would make them better. And hell even throw in some sled work for the OL.
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
Until OSU's young offensive talent matures its going to be a bumpy road. Anyone who beleived all the hype before the season with these young kids, were looking at OSU with blinders on. I do not remember very many new young starting QB's who have done AWESOME starting out of the blocks. Heck Art had 5 interceptions the first game he played. Maybe they have not done this bad but there are reasons he is starting. I am sorry but Troy Smith is a great talent but throwing on the run, as Troy does, is not the answer (although I'd welcome the fact that I could be wrong but I don't think so) . A running QB is rarely the answer. There is NO FACTS to prove that Troy would do better !!! There are very few Vicks out there and I doubt Troy Smith has that kinda of gamebreaking maturity yet himself. He is also very very young too. Yea OSU is not playing that well on offense. Its terrible, heart wrentching to watch sometimes but again they are young. If/when we can put all the peices together and get some solid long drives to build on, which we had NONE today, then we will see such a better game !! It was three and out all day long. Our Defense was put in bad situations all day long too.
:osu:What is comes down to is mental mistakes, mental young mistakes and that can be fixed!:osu:
I said it after the Northwestern game that Justin Zwick has to mature for us to have a great game. Yea the O-line needs to mature also, but Justin has to learn to read the defenses faster and not lock on to one player, and more importantly not try to hit the home run throw all the time. So many times an open receiver was wide open in the short route but he threw to a player further down feild.
:osu:What is comes down to is mental mistakes, mental young mistakes and that can be fixed!:osu:
I said it after the Northwestern game that Justin Zwick has to mature for us to have a great game. Yea the O-line needs to mature also, but Justin has to learn to read the defenses faster and not lock on to one player, and more importantly not try to hit the home run throw all the time. So many times an open receiver was wide open in the short route but he threw to a player further down feild.
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Airspace
Senior
What bothers me this week and last was that Zwick was not pulled for a series or two to see the game from the sidelines. Sometimes the perspective from the sidelines gives the qb a different view. He is allowed to sit back and the see the defense for what it is. On the field, it is read and react with no time to think about it. Watching from the sidelines would give him that opportunity. He could use it to analyze the situation with a better understanding of what he and the offense needs to do and what will work.
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