Proof of the Existence of God

[BayBuck]

But I think my standard of "knowing" is really no different than anyone else's for most of what we all encounter in everyday life, except when it comes to religious matters. I'm just trying to stay consistent in my method to determine what's likely true and what is not, and I think most religious people have two separate methodologies. If you were suffering from an incurable disease and your doctors told you that you only had months to live, but also read on the internet that some stranger was selling a pill in exchange for all of your money and possessions that he was certain would cure you because of "the medical experience that resonates deeply within him personally", would you just accept his claim at face value and buy the pill or require some additional evidence? I don't deny that he strongly believes that he has the cure, but I would question whether or not what he believes is really true.

But what if your disease was of the spirit, not the body, and you decided to take that stranger up on his claim, and then immediately started to feel better? How could anyone but yourself ever "know" whether such an illness was actually being cured? And oh yeah, the pill is actually free.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Just because I say the end times are near doesnt mean there is a date on it like the Mayans. I'm just going by what the bible clearly states.

1. The reemergence of Israel....the Jews were surely thought to be annihilated in the Holocaust. Now, they are back in their land. Ezekiel 37:11-13....talks about the resurgence of Israel

2. Jerusalem becomes a heavy stone and the world focus. Some will try to take it over, but none will be successful. Zechariah 12: 2-3 Dome of the Rock ring a bell? It ain't exactly Jewish

3. Knowledge and travel will be robust. Daniel 12:4

4. Exponential growth on earth. Mathew 24:3-8 talks about some of the things we will face before the end. In fact it's the end, but the beginning

5. Wars/Famines/Earthquakes..again Mathew 24:3-8

6. False Prohesis...Mathew 24:3-8

7. Rise of Russia and countries surrounding (Gog/Magog Alliance)....Ezekial 38:1-9 Russia? Is this 1985?

8. Rise of a global government...Revelation 13:7. One man/group will rule the world. Look at all of these unions countries belong to now a days Fortunately if you aint with us, you're against us, right?

9. Gods word spread throughout the world...Mathew 24:14 states "And the good news about the Kingdom will be preached throught the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come. It's also said again in Revelations 14:6-7
Did you not see Jwins - a Christian - noting that this has actually not happened?

That is what I am going off of

Just off the top of my head.

 

[Mac]

Just off the top of my head.

I was just listing some of the things the bible says are some of the signs of the end times. And yes, I saw what Jwins - a Christian, said. I was just stating it again.

Again, I don't know when the end of the world is. Nor have I claimed that I knew. All I've said over and over is I think we are getting near. Does near mean today, tomorrow, 5 years, 10 years, 100 years? I really don't know. No one knows, but the God

 

[Boostinlsj]

Just because I say the end times are near doesnt mean there is a date on it like the Mayans. I'm just going by what the bible clearly states.

1. The reemergence of Israel....the Jews were surely thought to be annihilated in the Holocaust. Now, they are back in their land. Ezekiel 37:11-13....talks about the resurgence of Israel

2. Jerusalem becomes a heavy stone and the world focus. Some will try to take it over, but none will be successful. Zechariah 12: 2-3

3. Knowledge and travel will be robust. Daniel 12:4

4. Exponential growth on earth. Mathew 24:3-8 talks about some of the things we will face before the end. In fact it's the end, but the beginning

5. Wars/Famines/Earthquakes..again Mathew 24:3-8

6. False Prohesis...Mathew 24:3-8

7. Rise of Russia and countries surrounding (Gog/Magog Alliance)....Ezekial 38:1-9

8. Rise of a global government...Revelation 13:7. One man/group will rule the world. Look at all of these unions countries belong to now a days

9. Gods word spread throughout the world...Mathew 24:14 states "And the good news about the Kingdom will be preached throught the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come. It's also said again in Revelations 14:6-7


That is what I am going off of

Logical fallacies everywhere in this thread.

I can go through the Harry Potter series and pick and choose events that directly correspond with events on earth.

That is what I am going off of

Why?

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

I was just listing some of the things the bible says are some of the signs of the end times. And yes, I saw what Jwins - a Christian, said. I was just stating it again.

Again, I don't know when the end of the world is. Nor have I claimed that I knew. All I've said over and over is I think we are getting near. Does near mean today, tomorrow, 5 years, 10 years, 100 years? I really don't know. No one knows, but the God

Well, unless the flow of time magically reverses, I think it is safe to say that we are, by law, getting closer to "the end of the world" rather than further away from it. :p

 

[PlanetFrnd]

I was just listing some of the things the bible says are some of the signs of the end times. And yes, I saw what Jwins - a Christian, said. I was just stating it again.

6. False Prohesis...Mathew 24:3-8

Ironic. Or not. I guess we won't know until its too late.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Well, unless the flow of time magically reverses, I think it is safe to say that we are, by law, getting closer to "the end of the world" rather than further away from it. :p

Are you suggesting that the Sun will one day bloat and swallow the earth?

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Are you suggesting that the Sun will one day bloat and swallow the earth?

It will if I have any say in it.

 

[Taosman]

The World has Ended numerous times for various civilizations.
The world ended when Rome fell.
The world ended when the Huns invaded Europe.
The world ended when the Spanish conquered the new world.
It ended for the Mayans.
The Black Plague ended the civilized world and plunged the world into darkness.
Surely the Germans thought the world ended when the Russians entered Berlin.
The Japanese must have thought the world ended after the second atomic bomb was dropped and Japan surrendered.
On and on.
The World Ends all the time!
Empires crumble. And governments fail.
Humanity survives!
There is proof of that.

There is no proof of a God or many gods.
Or that God/Gods favor one group of people or punish another.
Or that there is "one true religion".

 

[PlanetFrnd]

It will if I have any say in it.

False prophet.

 

[AKAK]

False prophet.

On that note, I'll be turning water into wine this week...

Suck it.

 

[Taosman]

The single best thing we can do is to recognize that we are, indeed,
"all in this together".
That we must all work for the common good right here, right now.

 

[Thump]

Bkb an Brewtus, how do you guys explain things that happen, that shouldn't happen, do occur.

For example, Doctors regularly say, they have no idea how x was healed/cured/etc. Is that a coincidence that something all of the sudden changes so frantically that medicine has no explanation for why it happens?

....Or how seemingly healthy people drop dead?

God's love?

Perhaps you've also read studies on the power of prayer and how there was no discernible difference in recovery rate of said patients?

 

[muffler dragon]

Oh... what the hell.

Just because I say the end times are near doesnt mean there is a date on it like the Mayans. I'm just going by what the bible clearly states.

Please don't use phrases like "clearly" states when so many opinions exist. It's a disingenuous and haughty statement

1. The reemergence of Israel....the Jews were surely thought to be annihilated in the Holocaust. Now, they are back in their land. Ezekiel 37:11-13....talks about the resurgence of Israel

Do you know how many times this has occurred besides what occurred with the British Mandate?

2. Jerusalem becomes a heavy stone and the world focus. Some will try to take it over, but none will be successful. Zechariah 12: 2-3

I'm going to provide you with a little better translation with commentary, and I would like for you to tell me how that fits with anything remotely close to what is happening today. Additionally, in the future it may serve your purposes best if you consider context instead of one-hit-(verse)wonders.

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16216/showrashi/true

The commentary is by Rashi, and the emboldened is his commentary on the passage.

1. The prophecy of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and founds the earth and forms the spirit of man within him: א. מַשָּׂא דְבַר יְהֹוָה עַל יִשְׂרָאֵל נְאֻם יְהֹוָה נֹטֶה שָׁמַיִם וְיֹסֵד אָרֶץ וְיֹצֵר רוּחַ אָדָם בְּקִרְבּוֹ:
The prophecy of the word of the Lord: This is the completion of the word that he began to speak about the retribution of those who devour Israel - Esau and his ilk.

2. Behold! I am making Jerusalem a cup of weakness for all the peoples around, and also on Judah, [that he] shall be in the siege against Jerusalem. ב. הִנֵּה אָנֹכִי שָׂם אֶת יְרוּשָׁלִַם סַף רַעַל לְכָל הָעַמִּים סָבִיב וְגַם עַל יְהוּדָה יִהְיֶה בַמָּצוֹר עַל יְרוּשָׁלִָם:
a cup of weakness: a vessel of weakness, as in (Exod. 12:22), ?in the blood that is in the cup.?

weakness: an expression of bewilderment, [it means] the clogging of the heart and the limbs, for, like man enwrapped in a garment, they have no strength, as in (Nahum 2:4), ?And the cypress trees were enwrapped? ; and (Isa. 3:19) ?And the bracelets and the veils.? In the language of the Mishnah (Shabbath 6:6) we find, ?Arabian women may go out veiled.? It is involopiment in O. F.

and also on Judah: the nations that will be in siege against Jerusalem will impose upon Judah, for the house of David will be inside and the gentiles will besiege them. And also, the children of Judah will come, against their will, to besiege Jerusalem. So did Jonathan render it.

3. And it shall come to pass on that day that I will make Jerusalem a stone of burden for all peoples; all who bear it shall be gashed, and all the nations of the earth shall gather about it. ג. וְהָיָה בַיּוֹם הַהוּא אָשִׂים אֶת יְרוּשָׁלִַם אֶבֶן מַעֲמָסָה לְכָל הָעַמִּים כָּל עֹמְסֶיהָ שָׂרוֹט יִשָּׂרֵטוּ וְנֶאֶסְפוּ עָלֶיה כֹּל גּוֹיֵי הָאָרֶץ:
a stone of burden: A stone of burden placed upon men by order of the ruler, to carry it and to load it on their shoulders. It is very heavy, to the extent that all who bear it become gashed.

3. Knowledge and travel will be robust. Daniel 12:4

A note about Daniel that you should consider is that Daniel is not considered a book within the Nevi'im (Prophets); but instead, the Ketuvim (Writings).

Here's the actual verse:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16495/showrashi/true

4. And you, Daniel, close up the words and seal the book until the time of the end; many will run to and fro, and the knowledge will increase.

Looking at the entire context of the passage, there are a vast array of times that fit this bill.

4. Exponential growth on earth. Mathew 24:3-8 talks about some of the things we will face before the end. In fact it's the end, but the beginning

5. Wars/Famines/Earthquakes..again Mathew 24:3-8

6. False Prohesis...Mathew 24:3-8

I'll refrain from commenting on Matthew as the gospels hold no value to me.

7. Rise of Russia and countries surrounding (Gog/Magog Alliance)....Ezekial 38:1-9

You've been reading way too much Tim LaHaye!

9. Gods word spread throughout the world...Mathew 24:14 states "And the good news about the Kingdom will be preached throught the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come. It's also said again in Revelations 14:6-7

That is what I am going off of

Small question for you about this passage: has it ever surprised you that Judaism is not an evangelical religion?

I believe what he thought and what he knew were two different things. (grannie nevada?)

Then again, my brain starts to melt when I dwell on the Partial Preterist, Full Preterist, etc arguments.

Preterism is for the cool people.

 

[Mac]

Oh... what the hell.



Please don't use phrases like "clearly" states when so many opinions exist. It's a disingenuous and haughty statement



Do you know how many times this has occurred besides what occurred with the British Mandate?



I'm going to provide you with a little better translation with commentary, and I would like for you to tell me how that fits with anything remotely close to what is happening today. Additionally, in the future it may serve your purposes best if you consider context instead of one-hit-(verse)wonders.

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16216/showrashi/true

The commentary is by Rashi, and the emboldened is his commentary on the passage.





A note about Daniel that you should consider is that Daniel is not considered a book within the Nevi'im (Prophets); but instead, the Ketuvim (Writings).

Here's the actual verse:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16495/showrashi/true

4. And you, Daniel, close up the words and seal the book until the time of the end; many will run to and fro, and the knowledge will increase.

Looking at the entire context of the passage, there are a vast array of times that fit this bill.



I'll refrain from commenting on Matthew as the gospels hold no value to me.



You've been reading way too much Tim LaHaye!



Small question for you about this passage: has it ever surprised you that Judaism is not an evangelical religion?



Preterism is for the cool people.

I'm not going to comment on these (not going to be rude, but I'm not going to get into another 2-3 day long argument again. Hope you understand ). But the one thing I will say is this. I never said these things are happening as we speak. I figured that was implied when I said we were near the end times. I guess not.