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Proof of the Existence of God

Buckeyeskickbuttocks;2279322; said:
There was no such thing as the United States when Revelations was written. What makes you think reference to this "Western Power" falling to its knees has anything to do with the US?

As far as wars go, if you look there have been plenty of wars going on for ... well.. every moment of mankind's history. I don't see 2012 as particularly unique, and.. in light of WWI and WWII ... not as grandiose as you're suggesting.

Disasters... we discussed this yesterday. Again, the only thing unique about our time is we know about them. They had floods and stuff in SE Asia back in the 1700s. We just didn't know about it with a click of a mouse.

As for those seeking harm to Israel... well.. hats off to the Israeli's for keeping their house in order. On the other hand, it seems to me no one is having much success overthrowing Australia either. Just sayin.

Either way, if it wasn't the US, then the "west" would be Europe, which in case you haven't checked lately, is hurting as well.

Your argument of because of technology, this stuff is more accessible is a weak argument with not much leg to stand on. Ill give you a little bit as it is easier to track because of technology. But that still doesn't mean that wars or disasters were NOT recorded years ago. You have no proof of this.
 
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Mac;2279329; said:
Either way, if it wasn't the US, then the "west" would be Europe, which in case you haven't checked lately, is hurting as well.

Was it doing well in 1916 when.. you know.. it was all at war with the world? How about when a German Deutschmark was worth the same as a pot full of urine?

How about the "dark ages" Was Europe better off then than now?

Your argument of because of technology, this stuff is more accessible is a weak argument with not much leg to stand on. Ill give you a little bit as it is easier to track because of technology.
But that still doesn't mean that wars or disasters were NOT recorded years ago. You have no proof of this.
First, my technology argument is more about individual awareness. Hells bells, even in 1950 a person in Columbus Ohio was less likely to hear about a murder in Denver Colorado than we are to hear about things happening on the other side of the globe today. It might appear that things are really hitting the fan these days, but.. alas.. they aren't. We just have the ability to know about them. I have proof of this. There was no such thing as the internet in 1950. Now there is. In MY life time, I have seen it go from 30 minutes of local news, and 30 minutes of National news to... several channels dedicated to news 24 hours a day. There's your proof.

Wars and disasters were recorded. Sure, I'll give you that. So... in as much as it is your burden to prove an increase in them, so as to sustain your argument that these are the end times, I suggest you go dig em up, do a data analysis and get back to us.

I'm particularly interested in Siberian earthquakes.

Good luck
 
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With this technology we have that you deem to be so great, why haven't we figured out what happened to the dinosaurs then?

Just because we are made more aware of an event doesn't mean that things aren't worse than what they used to. How easy is it to track how many wars, disasters, websites you visited, or anything for that matter? It's a number. If there's one more than the previous, you add to the total. Easily track-able.

It's not hard to see that there is much more violence wide spread in this world than what there used to be as a whole. It's not hard to see the number of disasters rising every year. It's not hard to see that sickness, disease, and famine are more common now than there used to be.

Instead of challenging me to prove my facts, in which I've already done. Do some research of your own. Share with me, that my research is wrong.
 
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Mac;2279335; said:
With this technology we have that you deem to be so great, why haven't we figured out what happened to the dinosaurs then?
First, I have made no assertion as to if technology is "great" I have asserted it is more prevalent. Second, we do know what happened to the dinosaurs.

Just because we are made more aware of an event doesn't mean that things aren't worse than what they used to. How easy is it to track how many wars, disasters, websites you visited, or anything for that matter? It's a number. If there's one more than the previous, you add to the total. Easily track-able.
Record keeping is a tricky thing. First off, I would bet you ANY amount of money that the number of disasters in Antartica known to have occurred in the last 20 years is infinitely larger than the number of disasters recorded there in the years 1 AD to 1,000 AD. Second off, peoples record different events. There seem to be a lot of folks who are certain a world wide flood occurred.. See Noah and Gilgamesh... but.. alas.. the Egyptians don't seem to remember it at all... they were probably too busy building pyramids to notice.. that and they live in a dessert

It's not hard to see that there is much more violence wide spread in this world than what there used to be as a whole. It's not hard to see the number of disasters rising every year. It's not hard to see that sickness, disease, and famine are more common now than there used to be.
Sure it is. It's extremely hard to see. Europe alone used to be an extremely violent place. See the aforementioned dark ages. Throw in a little Spanish inquisition for flavor, if you like. As sickness goes, I'd say the Bubonic plague wiping out 30-60% of Europe's population belies your assertion.

And.. what metric are you using for your "more common" analysis. Because, you know... population growth and such..

Instead of challenging me to prove my facts, in which I've already done. Do some research of your own. Share with me, that my research is wrong.
What have you proven? You've tossed out things which you believe are self evident. When you've been challenged on it, you've ignored it or throw together a chart purporting to establish weather disasters.... which accounts for.. 150 years.. in.. thousands... hundreds of thousands... millions.. billions.. Shall I say that Ohio State always beats Michigan because they did so this past year?

Do some research of my own... Um.. I have. And I've found that as nifty as John (Author of revelations) was, the Mayans at least had the stones to give me a date.
 
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Many stones

chichen-itza-mayan-temple.jpg
 
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Gotcha. So you believe in a Calendar made by the Mayans. But when the Bible clearly spells out the events leading up to the end of the world, it's ignored. Now I understand your viewpoint
 
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Mac;2279335; said:
With this technology we have that you deem to be so great, why haven't we figured out what happened to the dinosaurs then?

Just because we are made more aware of an event doesn't mean that things aren't worse than what they used to. How easy is it to track how many wars, disasters, websites you visited, or anything for that matter? It's a number. If there's one more than the previous, you add to the total. Easily track-able.

It's not hard to see that there is much more violence wide spread in this world than what there used to be as a whole. It's not hard to see the number of disasters rising every year. It's not hard to see that sickness, disease, and famine are more common now than there used to be.

Instead of challenging me to prove my facts, in which I've already done. Do some research of your own. Share with me, that my research is wrong.

Wikipedia magic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality_rate

Couple that with the fact that the world population just 100 years ago was less then 2 billion..and now it's over 7 billion and I'd say things aren't so bad.
 
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Mac;2279347; said:
Gotcha. So you believe in a Calendar made by the Mayans. But when the Bible clearly spells out the events leading up to the end of the world, it's ignored. Now I understand your viewpoint
No. I don't believe in the Mayan apocalypse either. I believe they were good with calenders.

As for the "clear spelling out" in the Bible...

Revelation Chapter 18 said:
18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Clear as mud.
But, I guess Kings didn't fornicate before the modern era... and.. well, we did get Saddam Huessain .. you know.. the King of Babylon

Death.. mourning... famine.. these things were wholly unknown.. especially in Medieval Europe.

But, I'm still looking for horses and seals and such...
 
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Yes, I know what Revelation 18 is. Thank you for copy and pasting it. I would check out the first 17 chapters before the 18th. They go in order.

You'll know something's up when the rapture occurs
 
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Mac;2279360; said:
Yes, I know what Revelation 18 is. Thank you for copy and pasting it. I would check out the first 17 chapters before the 18th. They go in order.

You'll know something's up when the rapture occurs

Yeah, maybe. You think John would be surprised to know that it hasn't happened yet, 2,000 years later?
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;2279352; said:
No. I don't believe in the Mayan apocalypse either. I believe they were good with calenders.

As for the "clear spelling out" in the Bible...




Clear as mud.
But, I guess Kings didn't fornicate before the modern era... and.. well, we did get Saddam Huessain .. you know.. the King of Babylon

Death.. mourning... famine.. these things were wholly unknown.. especially in Medieval Europe.

But, I'm still looking for horses and seals and such...

I wouldn't coin Saddam as the King of Babylon. He was evil, sure. But if he were the king of Babylon, who put the evil in the young man who shot up the school in CT? Ill give you one guess, it wasn't Saddam
 
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