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Post-Game Post Mortem - Penn State

I don't even want to talk about the b10 title because we aren't going to win it, but your assumption would be slightly incorrect.

A PSU loss still keeps them in 1st place due to the tie breaker(head to head) vs us. We now need them to lose twice....oh goodie.

Lets just go beat scUM's ass and call it a year. What a waste.

No actually I think you would be slightly incorrect. We still would get a share of the title with one loss, but the tiebreaker would determine who goes to the big bowl game right? I'll put all of my VCAsh (what small amount I have left) down on next weeks game against Michigan. Penn St will lose that game, Lloyd Carr's job may hinge on it. If you think Penn St won't slip again I think you are mistaken. The Big Ten has a lot of good teams this year, and anyone is capable of beating virtually anyone this season.
 
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No actually I think you would be slightly incorrect. We still would get a share of the title with one loss, but the tiebreaker would determine who goes to the big bowl game right? I'll put all of my VCAsh (what small amount I have left) down on next weeks game against Michigan. Penn St will lose that game, Lloyd Carr's job may hinge on it. If you think Penn St won't slip again I think you are mistaken. The Big Ten has a lot of good teams this year, and anyone is capable of beating virtually anyone this season.

You might be right, I don't know.

It just doesn't seem very logical that 2 teams with the same record would be considerd co-champs if one team beat the other head to head.

I think that only happens when a 3rd team is in the mix and therefore everyone has to be "co-champs" because not all played head to head.

Example Wisky, PSU and OSU all finish 1 loss in B10 play then all 3 are "B10 champs but if only PSU and OSU finish 1 loss then PSU is B10 champ by head to head.

But like I said I'm not 100% sure.
 
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My take on the game can be summed up in one catch phrase: We got "Out-Tresseled". Penn State played outstanding on defense and didn't turn the ball over. They were opportunistic on offense, cashing in on the interception. That's Tresselball in a nutshell.

We've now lost 5 of our last 6 road games. Our opponents know what we are trying to do. (see definition of Tresselball above) I think a trend has has emerged that clearly shows a reason for concern.

Bloomington aside, we struggle mightily away from home. (Even the 2002 team had it's problems - Cincinnati, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue) It's unrealistic to expect a team to be mistake free on the road. The 2002 team had JUST ENOUGH offense to overcome it's mistakes. That hasn't been the case since. It's also much more difficult to force mistakes on the road. In short: Without any kind of consistency on offense, we put ourselves in a very vulnerable place with every road game.

The defense and special teams are outstanding. I'll echo the sentiments of a thousand posters before me: We need a change at offensive coordinator.

Congrats to Penn State and Joe Paterno on a very well played game.
 
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My take on the game can be summed up in one catch phrase: We got "Out-Tresseled". Penn State played outstanding on defense and didn't turn the ball over. They were opportunistic on offense, cashing in on the interception. That's Tresselball in a nutshell.

We've now lost 5 of our last 6 road games. Our opponents know what we are trying to do. (see definition of Tresselball above) I think a trend has has emerged that clearly shows a reason for concern.

Bloomington aside, we struggle mightily away from home. (Even the 2002 team had it's problems - Cincinnati, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue) It's unrealistic to expect a team to be mistake free on the road. The 2002 team had JUST ENOUGH offense to overcome it's mistakes. That hasn't been the case since. It's also much more difficult to force mistakes on the road. In short: Without any kind of consistency on offense, we put ourselves in a very vulnerable place with every road game.

The defense and special teams are outstanding. I'll echo the sentiments of a thousand posters before me: We need a change at offensive coordinator.

Congrats to Penn State and Joe Paterno on a very well played game.

The Problem is we are not playing "Tresselball" You can not have the turn overs we have and our special teams have been mediocre at best.

I know everyone was over joyed with the Iowa game but I though are offense looked marginal even though we did get a lot of points. How many turn overs did we have that game? How many fumbles did we have that we recovered. You can't do that against a good football team and expect to win.

Rod
 
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mediocre? Trapasso boomed the ball well all night long. Mediocre was their punter. Huston barely missed a 50 yarder. Just b/c we don't have the best PK of all time doesn't make it mediocre.

I suppose Huston and the special teams were mediocre against Texas too, b/c we missed one FG?

Just b/c teddy isn't running wild on special teams doesn't mean we are doing mediocre in that dept.
 
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I needed that one to smile again

The Problem is we are not playing "Tresselball" You can not have the turn overs we have and our special teams have been mediocre at best.

Rod

Haha, LOL, that is hilarious.

We are not playing "Tresselball" well enough.:biggrin:

I'll throw one out there...

We didn't lose last night, the game was just too long. We were up 3-0 early and did not execute well enough to run out the clock.:)
 
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No comments tonight, just a few questions, taken from opinions previously seen on this board:

1) Do you still think that Troy Smith is clearly the best QB and the man to lead this team?

2) Do you still think that Antonio Pittman is a great running back?

3) Do you still think that the Buckeyes have the best group of wide receivers in college football?

4) Do you still think that this team has more talent than the 2002 squad (which was ranked the #16 team of all time by Billingsley's)?

5) Do you still think that this is a national championship caliber team?

Well....

From a potential and talent standpoint, yes to all questions.

We are not getting nearly enough out of our offensive talent. As long as the overarching goal of the offense is to not turn the ball over, we will continue to leak potential (and, lose to lesser football teams):!
 
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1) Do you still think that Troy Smith is clearly the best QB and the man to lead this team? No. Smith might have been last year but not this year. I have thought this entire season that Zwick should have been the starter. He flat out didn't lose the job. Clarity said it best, Smith is either a god or a liability. And we have another year of this inconsistency?

2) Do you still think that Antonio Pittman is a great running back? Never thought he was great. Good yes. Eddie George was great.

3) Do you still think that the Buckeyes have the best group of wide receivers in college football? Never was sure if they had the best, but they are definitely still top 3 IMO.

4) Do you still think that this team has more talent than the 2002 squad (which was ranked the #16 team of all time by Billingsley's)? I believe this team has more physical talent yes. But this team definitely lacks the intangibles the 02 team had.

5) Do you still think that this is a national championship caliber team? No.
 
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1) Do you still think that Troy Smith is clearly the best QB and the man to lead this team?
NO. I have never thought Smith was the best, or even the best choice. Last nite and vs Texas proved what I had always thought...a good defense will shut down Smith running, force him to read defense and pass....and he is not good at doing that.

2) Do you still think that Antonio Pittman is a great running back?
Never thought he was great, but he is good and think he will get better.

3) Do you still think that the Buckeyes have the best group of wide receivers in college football?
We'll never know because Smith can't read the defense and get them the ball.

4) Do you still think that this team has more talent than the 2002 squad (which was ranked the #16 team of all time by Billingsley's)?
Debatable. We had a quality QB who understood his limitations and a great defense. I think this team has more "pure" talent, especially at the WR position. And I think this defense is better. THe problem with this team is the QB position.

5) Do you still think that this is a national championship caliber team?
Not with Smith at QB and it really doesn't matter now because they are out of it. When your defense gives up 190 total yards and 10pts.....you SHOULD win every time at OSU.
 
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Anyone else notice how Kudla got handled by their backup tackle! It just points to the fact we were out played! Sure Kudla got held his fair share too! But their backup made Kudla a non factor !

And people gave me shit and red chicklets when I said Ginn would have a much harder time getting PR and/or kickoff returns. And would have to become more of a play maker at receiver! He's just a sophomore! Sure he's got talent, but he absolutely must become a receiver. There are other receivers on this team. Where are they? Holmes was open a lot last night. Gonzo, too! On one of the deep throws Smith slipped and it ruined the timing of that deep ball.

This team took a long time to get up to speed last night! They weren't ready to play! We took a step backward last night. :smash:
 
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1) Do you still think that Troy Smith is clearly the best QB and the man to lead this team?

- I don't see either junior as the answer, and the underclassmen aren't ready yet.


2) Do you still think that Antonio Pittman is a great running back?

- He's exceeded my expectations this year by locking down the starting job and improving the running game. "Great" is a huge stretch.


3) Do you still think that the Buckeyes have the best group of wide receivers in college football?

- No.


4) Do you still think that this team has more talent than the 2002 squad (which was ranked the #16 team of all time by Billingsley's)?

- No. 2002 exceeded this team at QB, RB, TE, FB, DE, DT, CB, S, K, P and at one WR spot. 2005 has better returners, more WR depth, better LB, equal C. I think some of the individual OL will prove to be more talented by the ends of their careers (Barton, Boone, Rehring).


5) Do you still think that this is a national championship caliber team?

- Clearly not.
 
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Well, first off, thanks to everyone who responded to this thread. My questions were based on opinions which I saw frequently expressed on this board - the questions were not meant to be facetious or rhetorical.

1) With regard to Smith, I think that several people (perhaps unwittingly) hit the nail on the head when they said that he is better than the alternative. While that point is certainly debateable, the implication is that Smith is the QB by default, and not based on his performance. While Smith probably gives the Buckeyes the best chance to win any given game, he probably also gives them the best chance to lose. Zwick might be more steady, but he is less dynamic and seems to lack certain intangibles which one would expect in a true field general; neither QB has proven himself to be a team leader in the mode of Craig Krenzel. How many of you thought that Troy was going to pull out a victory in the final minutes of last night's game? If Justin had been in there, would you have felt any more confident? Now if Krenzel had been the QB, what would you have thought? (I would have thought that we had Penn State right where we wanted them...) Coming into this season, I felt that the QB position was the biggest question mark on the team (along with the DL), especially in terms of leadership and intangibles; it is apparent that the QB position is in fact the biggest weakness on this team, and likely will be so for the remainder of the season. We have seen one-and-a-half years of Smith v. Zwick, and this QB controversy is not even close to being settled. Unfortunately, we still have another year-and-a-half to go. Will someone please step up and claim the QB position by being the "best" option, and not the "least bad" option?

2) Pittman is a fine back; I particularly like the fact that he always runs hard and doesn't fumble. However, he is not a great back as many claimed in a recent thread. One "insider" has told me that Chris Wells should start from day one next season; no offense to Pittman, but I agree. Maybe C. Wells (like MoC before him) is just the kind of back that JT's offense needs to take it to the next level.

3) Concerning the WR's... Someone made a great point - how do we know whether they are great when the QB can't get them the ball? I do know that our WR's have dropped a lot of passes this season, and can't seem to get many yard-after-catch, but a lot of that could be the QB's inability to get them the ball where they need it. The schemes could be a factor as well.

4) 2005 vs. 2002 - I still can't figure this one out.... The 2002 team was ranked by Billingsely's (people who know football) as the 16th best of all-time (out of ALL 10,402 teams that have taken the field from 1869-2003). Of the 23 starters on that 2002 team (Fiesta Bowl starters, including kickers; Gamble went both ways and thus occupied two starting slots), 19 have been drafted into the NFL (and Rob Sims is still on the team and should get drafted next April), and one more (Andy Groom) played as a non-drafted free agent; of those draftees, 3 were first-rounders; 2 were second-rounders; and 7 were third-rounders. The 2002 team won 14 straight games, outscored its opponents 410 to 183 (29.3 ppg to 13.1 ppg), and rushed for nearly 200 ypg; in addition, that team had incredible leadership and intangibles.

On the current squad, only two players are clearly better than their 2002 counterparts - Hawk (over Cie Grant), and Carpenter (over Robert Reynolds). However, several players on the 2002 squad were clearly better than today's players - Krenzel (over Smith or Zwick); Clarett (over Pittman); Hartsock (over Hamby); Wilhelm (over Schegel); Doss (over Salley); Nugent (over Huston); and the entire offensive and defensive lines. Even though Santonio Holmes is a special player, I would still take Michael Jenkins over him, hands down. Even if the remaining positions are a "wash", the 2002 team had clearly superior talent, IMHO.

Please note, that my analysis is based on "results", not "potential". The 2005 team may have equal "talent", but the results (individually and collectively) just aren't there.

5) Obviously, the Bucks aren't going to win an NC this year. However, before the season started, 71.8% of the voters in the BP poll thought that Ohio State would have at most one loss this season (which would have made them NC contenders).

A few other points:

6) A lot has been said about Jim Tressel. Since he has been at Ohio State, Tressel has coached two games that have really "mattered": 2002 Michigan, and 2002 NC game; of course, he won both games. In addition, he has also beaten Michigan on two other occasions, and won two other bowl games, which is nice (even if the games didn't "mean" anything in NC picture). I am not concerned about JT winning "big" games. However, JT will eventually need to get this team into a position to play some games that "count" (i.e., national championship games). JT is far from being on the hot seat, but he will in the near future (say by 2010) need to return the Buckeyes to serious NC contention.

This brings me to my one criticism of JT: he coaches so that his teams will "peak" at the end of the season. While this philosophy works at the 1-AA level, where there is a playoff system, in major college football, a team can afford, at the very most, only one loss during the regular season. At the end of last year, Ohio State may have been playing as well as anyone, but the four losses kept the Bucks far removed from title contention.

7) On the season, Josh Huston has missed only two field goals, each of 50 yards, and each by only a foot or so. However, those 24 inches are what separate a "good" player from a "great" player (in this case, Mike Nugent). By analogy, the entire 2005 squad is close to being collectively great, but they are obviously missing an ingredient or three. JT is bringing in the talent, and he is a great game-day coach. I honestly feel that, in the next few years, all of the ingredients will come together, all of the little things will go the Buckeyes' way, and Ohio State will once again be national champs.

8) Finally, let's keep some perspective. Since Ohio State began playing football in 1889, the Bucks have had only ten undefeated seasons (inlcuding their inaugural campaign where they went 1-0), and only 6 of those seasons have been "perfect" (unbeaten and untied). Like everyone else, the Bucks will lose some games most seasons. So, enjoy football for what it is - a game - and make sure that you take the losses in stride, but also that you cherish the rare opportunity to claim that your beloved Buckeyes are the best damned team in the land!

Maybe next year..... :osu:
 
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Either quaterback is mediocre. I've said it before mediocre QB's have mediocre offenses.

PSU only scored 17 points on us and 7 of those were a gimme.

There is NO WAY that they beat Meshitagain next week...they shot their wad.

Paterno pulled out all the stops including cancelling visits. They will not play an inspired game like that again. Penn State dosen't have much of an offense, they just played error free!

Bet the ranch boys.
 
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I'd bet the ranch that a majority disagrees with you about them having no shot at UM, and probably also that they have no offense. High powered offenses look bad against us, that is a compliment, not evidence that they suck.
How many of you thought that Troy was going to pull out a victory in the final minutes of last night's game?
I did. I didn't feel comfortable with him during that game, but I thought he was gonna take us down the field that drive. Then a never-spelled Hamby got beat and Smith's world was rocked.
 
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