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Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

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So there's no way this wasn't a back room deal if you think about it. You had the reports of the recruits saying they were told the sanctions were getting reduced over a year ago. Then they somehow hold on to Hackenberg and Brennamen (don't care if I spelled either right). Their recruiting didn't drop off nearly as badly as it should have.....and that has to be because these kids were being told the sanctions were getting reduced.

If they undo the bowl ban I'm going to go postal.
 
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I am fine with the scholarships being reinstated.

I thought the penalty on the kids now was wrong. Penn State needed to be punished but the NCAA IMO overstepped its bounds. The Jerry Sandusky issue was a criminal one and the NCAA has no jurisdiction in criminal cases. The Freeh report, just like the NCAA, had no subpoena power and didn’t interview key people involved. I am not saying the Freeh report is wrong, in fact I believe it to be pretty accurate but it does make some assumptions where interviewing the key parties could have tied up any loose assumptions in that particular report.

Jerry Sandusky is in prison, rightfully so, JoePa lost his job, rightfully so, and other key people are currently awaiting their turns in the justice system. A culture change was needed and the NCAA stated so. Punishing kids that had nothing to do with what went on seems wrong, regardless of which university it is. Punish the university itself. Reduce scholarships so that is doesn’t cripple the football program. Have the NCAA remove people involved with the program and start fresh with NCAA approved hires to get rid of the previous culture. Punish the university financially, with no bowl payouts, BCS revenue, TV revenue, fine, etc…
I don’t get the fascination with BWI either, other than for entertainment purposes. At least to me I could care less what another fan base thinks. I mean fan is short for fanatic. Yes Ped Aggy’s fan base is probably the worst I have come across personally and are akin to a cult, but their fan base should not be taken into consideration when applying a NCAA penalty to a university.

Bottom line is I don’t think the kids who had nothing to do with the incidents should be punished if the proper steps to creating a stable university are put into place by the NCAA and are implemented properly. I am sure to catch some fire on this but I really don’t care.

I am fine if you think the NCAA didn't go far enough, that is your opinion.
 
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Fremont Buckeye said:
I am fine with the scholarships being reinstated.

I thought the penalty on the kids now was wrong. Penn State needed to be punished but the NCAA IMO overstepped its bounds. The Jerry Sandusky issue was a criminal one and the NCAA has no jurisdiction in criminal cases. The Freeh report, just like the NCAA, had no subpoena power and didn’t interview key people involved. I am not saying the Freeh report is wrong, in fact I believe it to be pretty accurate but it does make some assumptions where interviewing the key parties could have tied up any loose assumptions in that particular report.

Jerry Sandusky is in prison, rightfully so, JoePa lost his job, rightfully so, and other key people are currently awaiting their turns in the justice system. A culture change was needed and the NCAA stated so. Punishing kids that had nothing to do with what went on seems wrong, regardless of which university it is. Punish the university itself. Reduce scholarships so that is doesn’t cripple the football program. Have the NCAA remove people involved with the program and start fresh with NCAA approved hires to get rid of the previous culture. Punish the university financially, with no bowl payouts, BCS revenue, TV revenue, fine, etc…
I don’t get the fascination with BWI either, other than for entertainment purposes. At least to me I could care less what another fan base thinks. I mean fan is short for fanatic. Yes Ped Aggy’s fan base is probably the worst I have come across personally and are akin to a cult, but their fan base should not be taken into consideration when applying a NCAA penalty to a university.

Bottom line is I don’t think the kids who had nothing to do with the incidents should be punished if the proper steps to creating a stable university are put into place by the NCAA and are implemented properly. I am sure to catch some fire on this but I really don’t care.

I am fine if you think the NCAA didn't go far enough, that is your opinion.
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Except that any one of the athletes being punished is being punished by his own volition. All of the scholarship athletes had the option to leave. Every one since then has known the situation when they signed on. I don't feel bad at all for the current football players - they made their choices.
 
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Fremont Buckeye said:
....I thought the penalty on the kids now was wrong. ...Bottom line is I don’t think the kids who had nothing to do with the incidents should be punished if the proper steps to creating a stable university are put into place by the NCAA and are implemented properly...
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How are the kids there being punished? Do they still have their scholarships? The kids aren't being punished one bit.
 
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I love beating Penn State. I loved it every time we made Joe Pa look old and over the hill. I thorougly enjoyed taking the starch out of their big white-out last year.

That said, I think we need to take the big picture view here. First, it is in Ohio State's interest that Penn State have a strong and respected program. They are in our division now, and they will be in the East next year. We will play them every year. The full sanctions would have decimated them potentially through 2020. Second, there is the issue of fairness. Setting aside what was fair for Ohio State, USC, etc., these sanctions had the practical effect of punishing the university and the fan base- which could be argued was fair - but it also punished coaches and players who had absolutely nothing to do with the wrong-doing - which is harder to justify.

I have felt since these sanctions were handed down that they represented an over-reaction and were overly harsh. Pedophilia is a horrible crime and the punishment should be horrible - but it should be directed toward the principals involved and should lessen toward those tangentially involved. Most importantly, those who had nothing to do with it should not be castrated in the process.

That might not be a popular opinion, but it satisfies my sense of justice and it serves my beloved Buckeyes to boot. Those wanting harsh or harsher penalties for Penn State are supporting a weaker Leaders/East and a weaker BIG - neither of which is good for Ohio State in a system where the NC will be determined by strength of schedule and conference.
 
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OSUK said:
I have felt since these sanctions were handed down that they represented an over-reaction and were overly harsh. Pedophilia is a horrible crime and the punishment should be horrible - but it should be directed toward the principals involved and should lessen toward those tangentially involved. Most importantly, those who had nothing to do with it should not be castrated in the process.
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Fuck. That. The pedophilia was enabled and perpetuated by the football program and its surrounding protect-at-all-cost culture. They deserved everything they got...
 
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The KSB said:
How are the kids there being punished? Do they still have their scholarships? The kids aren't being punished one bit.
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They are being punished because 1) some very talented players will not even entertain going there due to the sanctions (ie, Noah Spence) 2) overall they will only attract a lower level of recruits (Hack and Brennamen aside) 3) they are playing on a team lacking depth via missing 15 players 4) they will lose games due to diminished talent and depth which further hurts their coach's efforts to get them help. 5) there is no post-season.

Your question is totally absurd. A better question is how doesn't it hurt them.
 
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Fremont Buckeye said:
I am fine with the scholarships being reinstated.

I thought the penalty on the kids now was wrong. Penn State needed to be punished but the NCAA IMO overstepped its bounds. The Jerry Sandusky issue was a criminal one and the NCAA has no jurisdiction in criminal cases. The Freeh report, just like the NCAA, had no subpoena power and didn’t interview key people involved. I am not saying the Freeh report is wrong, in fact I believe it to be pretty accurate but it does make some assumptions where interviewing the key parties could have tied up any loose assumptions in that particular report.

Jerry Sandusky is in prison, rightfully so, JoePa lost his job, rightfully so, and other key people are currently awaiting their turns in the justice system. A culture change was needed and the NCAA stated so. Punishing kids that had nothing to do with what went on seems wrong, regardless of which university it is. Punish the university itself. Reduce scholarships so that is doesn’t cripple the football program. Have the NCAA remove people involved with the program and start fresh with NCAA approved hires to get rid of the previous culture. Punish the university financially, with no bowl payouts, BCS revenue, TV revenue, fine, etc…
I don’t get the fascination with BWI either, other than for entertainment purposes. At least to me I could care less what another fan base thinks. I mean fan is short for fanatic. Yes Ped Aggy’s fan base is probably the worst I have come across personally and are akin to a cult, but their fan base should not be taken into consideration when applying a NCAA penalty to a university.

Bottom line is I don’t think the kids who had nothing to do with the incidents should be punished if the proper steps to creating a stable university are put into place by the NCAA and are implemented properly. I am sure to catch some fire on this but I really don’t care.

I am fine if you think the NCAA didn't go far enough, that is your opinion.
Click to expand...

I can see this viewpoint if one is to compartmentalize things. But that not a realistic way to look at the entirety of the situation. The cover up was done to protect the seemingly spotless rep of the football program. That alone makes it grounds for violation just as lying about NCAA violations or grade changes are violations (or once were before the NCAA lost its power). The reason Erickson accepted the NCAA punishment in 2012 was that he knew there was much more to uncover at PSU and that if any amount of real investigating was done the data would have supported a death penalty for many years and public outrage that would have made the existing outrage pale by comparison. The other thing is that the culture was broken and I am not sure how you would qualify that it's been fixed. I mean what actually changed? You have current BOT members suing the NCAA for restoration of wins for a dead football coach? So it seems the culture has become more radicalized in the last year instead of moderate. Lastly, you can say it's unfair that the current kids were being penalized. But's that the way it's always been done. There is no way to go backward and inflict punishment. If PSU was actively protecting a pedophile for 14 years and only got 2 years probation I'd say they made out pretty well. JT can't coach for 5 years and all he did is fib about some kids trading gifts for tats. Seems JT got hammered and PSU got off pretty light.
 
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OSUK said:
They are being punished because 1) some very talented players will not even entertain going there due to the sanctions (ie, Noah Spence) 2) overall they will only attract a lower level of recruits (Hack and Brennamen aside) 3) they are playing on a team lacking depth via missing 15 players 4) they will lose games due to diminished talent and depth which further hurts their coach's efforts to get them help. 5) there is no post-season.

Your question is totally absurd. A better question is how doesn't it hurt them.
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Every kid there was given a free pass to go elsewhere, and no recruits they are taking lacked other offers. Kids are there by choice.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Fuck. That. The pedophilia was enabled and perpetuated by the football program and its surrounding protect-at-all-cost culture. They deserved everything they got...
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Which, if you noticed, I said is an arguable point - that the univ, fan base, etc. was a tangential contributor in this in that they created a context where this occured. But if this were Ohio State, I suspect that you would be on the other side of this argument.

Plus, you go beyond the facts as known, substituting opinion for fact "enabled and perpetuated... to protect..." Maybe. Perhaps probably, but you don't know what the motivativation was - unless you are God and I'm skeptical.
 
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Not defending them at all. I can't stand them. But fairness, justice, punishing the guilty, and principles like that do not depend on the name of the university.

The guilty have been punished. Sandusky is rotting jail. Paterno was terminated. Two PSU officials are being prosecuted. All that satifies my sense of justice. What was done to the Penn State football program does not punish the guilty. So what is it that you are supporting? Punishing the innocent because you don't like their football program?
 
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