PBS Special on Mormon Church

[Fungo Squiggly]

I can see why that would offend you, just as I might be offended if your church made such a pronouncement about Presbyterians, "God's Frozen People".

I've always found the term "Frozen Chosen" quite amusing.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

The Washington Post has an interesting set of responses (and the public may also post) to the question: After 175 years of existence, is Mormonism entering the mainstream of American religious life or are people still suspicious of it?

Washington Post

 

[afgolfer]

1) The Mormon church only gave up polygamy (very reluctantly) as a condition of Utah gaining statehood.

2) The Mormon church until the mid-seventies considered anybody of "dark skin" to be sub-human. This was official church doctrine.

As far as the thought that "if you want to know about Mormonism, ask one." Well, no need to go searching because one of the fucks is bound to knock on your door pretty soon.

sub - human? The only thing they couldnt do was hold the priesthood - just as woman dont hold the priesthod. Does that mean that women are sub-human?

 

[Gatorubet]

sub - human? The only thing they couldnt do was hold the priesthood - just as woman dont hold the priesthod. Does that mean that women are sub-human?

"When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and HAVE RECEIVED THEIR RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity." LDS "Prophet" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 143, 1854, emphasis added.

"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE. A curse was placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so WHILE TIME ENDURES. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a BLACK SKIN and have been DENIED THE PRIVILEGE OF PRIESTHOOD and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to FEEL THEIR INFERIORITY and have been SEPARATED from the rest of mankind from the beginning. Enoch saw the people of Canaan, descendants of Cain, and he says, 'and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were DESPISED AMONG ALL PEOPLE.'" LDS "Prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, pp. 101-102, 1931, emphasis added.

"Though he was a rebel and an ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, ...Cain managed to attain the privilege of mortal birth.... [H]e came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... AS A RESULT OF HIS REBELLION, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; HE BECAME THE FATHER OF THE NEGROES, and THOSE SPIRITS WHO ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage." LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 108-109, 1966 edition, emphasis added.

Maybe not "subhuman", just "cursed", "not worthy", "despised", "inferior race"...but hell, that could be any one of a number of Southern Baptist leaders in the 1860s too.

(true, the Baptists never claimed an infallible Prophet...)

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

but hell, that could be any one of a number of Southern Baptist leaders in the 1860s too.

(true, the Baptists never claimed an infallible Prophet...)

Hell, that could be any number of Southern Baptist leaders in the 1960s.

 

[Gatorubet]

Hell, that could be any number of Southern Baptist leaders in the 1960s.

Yeah, but you know, they were loving the sinner, just hatin' the sin...

 

[lvbuckeye]

sub - human? The only thing they couldnt do was hold the priesthood - just as woman dont hold the priesthod. Does that mean that women are sub-human?

how many black people attend your tabernacle?

 

[afgolfer]

tabernacle?? we have afew that attend our ward there are also several hispanics, samoans, tongans, philipinos, and a guy from trinidad! most are active duty military -- none are treated any different than the other!

 

[OSUsushichic]

sub - human? The only thing they couldnt do was hold the priesthood - just as woman dont hold the priesthod. Does that mean that women are sub-human?

Why don't they allow women to lead their own congregation? Just curious.

 

[scarletngray]

The book "No Man Knows My History - The Life of Joseph Smith" is an interesting read indeed.

 

[afgolfer]

Has there ever been a place in scripture where woman led a congregation or were in leadership over the church type positions? there are times when women are in leadership positions/callings, but not over entire congregations, or the church itself. there is a releif society founded by the church that is led by women. woen also have calling in music, sunday school, etc.

If you wpuld like me to get a by the book answer I will, but even in the church established by christ duuring his day, woman were not ordained as apostles or church leaders.

During meetings, a ward bishop presides and conducts meetings, while the congregation (2-3 people chosen in advance) give a talk on a predetermined topic. These individuals are both male and female.

 

[Gatorubet]

tabernacle?? we have afew that attend our ward there are also several hispanics, samoans, tongans, philipinos, and a guy from trinidad! most are active duty military -- none are treated any different than the other!

Golfer, there is no doubt that the LDS Church today allows all races and nationalities. The only issue that I see, is that some are skeptical of the change in heart. It is one thing to have racism infect the church as a reflection of the prevailing culture, and another to have individuals who are Prophets with a direct link to God saying unbelievably racist things so recently. I don't expect my minister to be 100% right, even on important topics. But I'd expect a genuine prophet to nail every issue first time, every time, especially if I was interpreting the word in modern English and not wrestling with Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek translations of another millennia.

Granted, this may be a double standard, and other religions are not immune to criticism on matters of race. And I'm not intending to flame you, I'm just repeating views that I have read on some forums, and they seem to me to be legitimate questions in light of the unique status of your leaders. As far as I know, your denomination is the only one that claims it is currently led by Prophets, save the Nation of Islam and the deceased Elijah Mohammad.

 

[Best Buckeye]

Why don't they allow women to lead their own congregation? Just curious.

Mormons believe that the roles of people are stringent in their society. While each is tantamount to the relationship males are given the role as priests and women the homemaker. This is strictly adhered to.

 

[afgolfer]

not all women are homemakers, in fact many have advanced degrees' women are actually encouraged to pursue an education by church leaders

 

[Best Buckeye]

not all women are homemakers, in fact many have advanced degrees' women are actually encouraged to pursue an education by church leaders

Yes it is true that marraige is not a necessity in the mormon religion. The question was "Why don't they allow women to lead their own congregation?" The real answer is more complex than I stated because you would have to understand their "Plan of Salvation"