Oversigning (capacity 25, everyone welcome! maybe)

[gracelhink]

Therefore, some. not all, but some kids, do NOT qualify academically to attend college and must attend Junior College for up to 2 years. Those that attend JC can then attend some other Div-1 school after JC.

So, if a school does sign more than 25, it tells the prospect we like you a lot, but it looks like you may have to go to JC for a while before you come here. No school may have more than the NCAA allows on its rosters.

What about those who do qualify?
What about those who are given a scholarship but because coach signed too many who did qualify receive the bad news that their Soph, Jr. or Sr. year scholarships will not be renewed?
Ozone makes a relevant observation in refering to oversigning. . .

It's a sadly rampant and accepted practice in some parts of the country, but especially in the SEC. Though due to an unusual feeling of shame, the conference has recently instituted a rule that limits the number of signees per year to 28.
There are, however, plenty of ways around this number. That's a whole other discussion, which is fantastically addressed at the SEC's most-hated website, oversigning.com. It is recommended reading, but it will probably make you angry if you happen to care about human beings.

Relevant to this forum, the oversigning link shares this tidbit in the past 5 year period of recruits signed. The head to head match up of recruits signing LOI's --tOSU 99 vs. Ark 135.
(Even with the SEC shame induced and self-imposed signing limit of 28, Ark still signed 31 in 2009).

Based on Ohio State's average recruiting class size, 19.8, Arkansas has the advantage of having accepted nearly 2 full recruiting classes of signed letters of intent more than Ohio State. Most notably, the DT, OL, WR, and those recruited under ATH, appear to be where Arkansas has recruited more players.

 

[cjmik_75]

http://www.theozone.net/football/postseason/oversigning.html

Really interesting article by our friends over at the OZone about signing trends in the Big Ten compared to the SEC.

I'm curious what our Hog friends think of this trend. Are there recruits that are "pushed out"? I know there are in other programs, just curious if it happens at Arkansas. There's a huge discrepancy in signing that would seem to suggest it, but I wonder if you're aware of specific cases that could illuminate the subject more clearly than a "statistic" would. How does that reflect on these programs, particularly when you're in a living room trying to convince a kid's parents that you truly have his best interests at heart?

I won't put words in the mouth of hog fans, but I can assure you the LSU, Alabama, and Auburn fans around me (I live in Alabama) could care less. They think it's as weak of an excuse as academics. It sounds like whining to them. If you meet the grade, and are not breaking the rules, play on.

I am certainly NOT the spokesperson for any school. However, as many of you have pointed out, sometimes the edukation at the ellimentary and high skool level in the South is not up to Kollege standards. Therefore, some. not all, but some kids, do NOT qualify academically to attend college and must attend Junior College for up to 2 years. Those that attend JC can then attend some other Div-1 school after JC.

So, if a school does sign more than 25, it tells the prospect we like you a lot, but it looks like you may have to go to JC for a while before you come here. No school may have more than the NCAA allows on its rosters.

Ooooooo a minor league system, I like it!

What about those who do qualify?
What about those who are given a scholarship but because coach signed too many who did qualify receive the bad news that their Soph, Jr. or Sr. year scholarships will not be renewed?
Ozone makes a relevant observation in refering to oversigning. . .



Relevant to this forum, the oversigning link shares this tidbit in the past 5 year period of recruits signed. The head to head match up of recruits signing LOI's --tOSU 99 vs. Ark 135.
(Even with the SEC shame induced and self-imposed signing limit of 28, Ark still signed 31 in 2009).

Probably a discussion for another thread...we don't need this in the Sugar Bowl thread...just sayin'

 

[jwinslow]

When I ran the numbers three years ago, Arkansas signed the third most players in that span.

I have not followed Arkansas recruiting, so perhaps they had a high volume of non-qualifiers or juco signees that tweaked these totals.

On the other hand, schools like Alabama are well-documented for having to clear cap space every offseason, being 8-10 over their scholarship limit on signing day, but magically guys go on medical scholarships or leave for other reasons.

Yup. An SEC school signs an average of 19 more players over a 5 year span than their b10 counterparts. Yes I know there are some explanations (cleaning house after Zook), but it's a pretty clear trend overall.

2003-2007 (5 year span)

Total recruits signed (per scout)

UM - 17, 22, 23, 20, 20 = 102, 20.4 avg, 81.6 every 4 yrs, -3.4
OSU - 15, 26, 18, 20, 15 = 94, 18.8 avg, 75.2 every 4 yrs, -9.8
PSU - 11, 25, 19, 24, 21 = 100, 20.0 avg, 80.0 every 4 yrs, -5.0
Iow - 23, 20, 23, 20, 22 = 108, 21.6 avg, 86.4 every 4 yrs, +1.4
ILL - 28, 24, 19, 27, 21 = 119, 23.8 avg, 95.2 every 4 yrs, +10.2
Pur - 24, 29, 18, 25, 20 = 116, 23.2 avg, 92.8 every 4 yrs, +7.8
Wis - 17, 24, 23, 23, 18 = 105, 21.0 avg, 84.0 every 4 yrs, -1.0
Min - 21, 24, 18, 20, 23 = 106, 21.2 avg, 84.8 every 4 yrs, -0.2
IU - 23, 26, 24, 20, 19 = 112, 22.4 avg, 89.6 every 4 yrs, +4.6
NW - 22, 15, 20, 17, 19 = 93, 18.6 avg, 74.4 every 4 yrs, -10.6
MSU - 18, 30, 24, 25, 21 = 118, 23.6 avg, 94.4 every 4 yrs, +9.4
---
1173

106.6 21.3 avg, 85.3 every 4 yrs, +0.3


ALA - 17, 28, 30, 23, 24 = 122, 24.4 avg, 97.6 every 4 yrs, +12.6
ARK - 24, 32, 24, 26, 27 = 133, 26.6 avg, 106.4 evry 4 yrs, +21.4
AUB - 25, 27, 21, 25, 30 = 128, 25.6 avg, 102.4 evry 4 yrs, +17.4
FLA - 28, 24, 18, 27, 27 = 124, 24.8 avg, 99.2 every 4 yrs, +14.2
UGA - 24, 19, 19, 27, 23 = 112, 22.4 avg, 89.6 every 4 yrs, +4.6
KEN - 16, 28, 26, 30, 27 = 127, 25.4 avg, 101.6 evry 4 yrs, +16.6
LSU - 27, 29, 13, 25, 25 = 119, 23.8 avg, 95.2 every 4 yrs, +10.2
OLE - 23, 23, 28, 30, 22 = 126, 25.2 avg, 100.8 evry 4 yrs, +15.8
MST - 32, 23, 28, 24, 34 = 141, 28.2 avg, 112.8 evry 4 yrs, +27.8
USC - 29, 27, 28, 24, 31 = 139, 27.8 avg, 111.2 evry 4 yrs, +26.2
TEN - 22, 24, 27, 21, 32 = 126, 25.2 avg, 100.8 evry 4 yrs, +15.8
VAN - 22, 20, 25, 26, 14 = 107, 21.4 avg, 85.6 every 4 yrs, +0.6
---
1504

125.3 25.1 avg, 100.3 evry 4 yrs, +15.3

Bama was one of the lower ones in this group, but that has since changed, oversigning to the tune of 32 in '08 and following it up with 27 more for '09.

Georgia is a rare SEC squad that signs mass numbers like the b10, including '08 & '09.

In contrast, OSU was one of the lowest in that list. If you shift the 5-year span to include 08 & 09, OSU only picks up 4 extra players (or -6.6 under the schollie limit instead of -7.8)

 

[cjmik_75]

Little video from Outside the lines Sunday:

Link

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

S-E-C S-E-C that video sure painted the Hat in a bad light, Houston Nutt looked real caring too

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses, and if they can ball, their in, if not, "they were too lazy, not committed, got hurt etc"

 

[y0yoyoin]

Little video from Outside the lines Sunday:

Link

good video...wish they would of made it into a longer segment...it could easily be a hour long special if they wanted to go in depth on it

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Just another example that it's not just the big things (Cam Newton) where the SEC differs from the Big Ten. The true differences in standards and philosophies lie in the more mundane, day-to-day manner in which they carry out their business, manage their football programs and run their universities.

The Big Ten is far from perfect. Decade after decade, however, they have attempted to put some walls up against the corrupting influences of big time football on their universities. The SEC, to the contrary, has not only failed to make any such attempt but seems to revel in grasping any--no matter how unseemly--little advantage it can conceive.

 

[PlanetFrnd]

Just another example that it's not just the big things (Cam Newton) where the SEC differs from the Big Ten. The true differences in standards and philosophies lie in the more mundane, day-to-day manner in which they carry out their business, manage their football programs and run their universities.

The Big Ten is far from perfect. Decade after decade, however, they have attempted to put some walls up against the corrupting influences of big time football on their universities. The SEC, to the contrary, has not only failed to make any such attempt but seems to revel in grasping any--no matter how unseemly--little advantage it can conceive.

And yet, amazingly, the B10 has still managed to put together the most commercially viable (from a revenue perspective) college football product.

 

[MaxBuck]

Everyone should be aware that the average SEC fan will regard this as nothing more than whining by fans of a team in a second-rate league. And it's a shame, because we really are playing by entirely different rules from those played by teams in the SEC. We just need to console ourselves with that realization, along with the fact that young men who choose to matriculate in the Big Ten have a much better chance of getting an excellent education and getting themselves a real shot at success in life than those who play in the SEC.

 

[Nutriaitch]

S-E-C S-E-C that video sure painted the Hat in a bad light, Houston Nutt looked real caring too

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses, and if they can ball, their in, if not, "they were too lazy, not committed, got hurt etc"

i didn't watch the video, but if it's about the Chris Garrett thing (an article came out about him recently) they picked a terrible example.

dude came in as a QB (something LSU desperately needs) and put forth no effort to make the team.
he was overweight and got cut.
went to a 1AA school and sat the bench (after crying that he never got a chance at LSU).
rumored to be transferring to Ole Piss.

i'm not saying LSU is innocent.
i don't follow recruiting closely, so I can't really comment on our recruiting practices.


Just saying that Chris Garrett running his mouth and having a family attorney speak for him is mostly sour grapes.

 

[Gatorubet]

Everyone should be aware that the average SEC fan will regard this as nothing more than whining by fans of a team in a second-rate league. And it's a shame, because we really are playing by entirely different rules from those played by teams in the SEC.

We just need to console ourselves with that realization, along with the fact that young men who choose to matriculate in the Big Ten have a much better chance of getting an excellent education and getting themselves a real shot at success in life than those who play in the SEC.

Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too!

 

[woofermazing]

i didn't watch the video, but if it's about the Chris Garrett thing (an article came out about him recently) they picked a terrible example.

dude came in as a QB (something LSU desperately needs) and put forth no effort to make the team.
he was overweight and got cut.
went to a 1AA school and sat the bench (after crying that he never got a chance at LSU).
rumored to be transferring to Ole [censored].

i'm not saying LSU is innocent.
i don't follow recruiting closely, so I can't really comment on our recruiting practices.


Just saying that Chris Garrett running his mouth and having a family attorney speak for him is mostly sour grapes.

Right....

Eric Collins, Garrett's former coach at Tupelo High School in Tupelo, Miss., said early Monday that Garrett chose to leave LSU because his scholarship was not going to be renewed.
LSU spokesman Michael Bonnette refuted that information Monday afternoon, saying that LSU Coach Les Miles told him Garrett would have remained on scholarship had he returned to LSU.

Dixon said the quarterback decided his time in Baton Rouge was done after talking to Miles.

"Heading into this summer he was trying to see when he would get a shot," Dixon said.
"Miles let it be known Jordan Jefferson and Jarrett Lee would be the top guys for the next two years. Chris just thinks he's good enough to play before then."

 

[BuckTwenty]

LSU is graduating 11 seniors. Currently have a recruiting class of 19 and counting.

Alabama is graduating 8 seniors this year. Currently have a recruiting class of 20 and counting, plus 2 guys taking a greyshirt this year who will be going on scholarship starting next quarter/semester.

So are LSU (8 players oversigned) and Alabama (14 players oversigned) planning for a tremendous amount of players leaving early for the league or willingly transfer... or are they going to force fringe players to take Medical Hardship Waivers for non-career ending injuries, make recruits accept greyshirts after they get on campus (and force them to transfer if they don't accept), have a fringe player get cut for "violation of team rules" for a very mild offense, etc.

Anyone else seeing a problem with this?

 

[y0yoyoin]

Alabama (14 players oversigned) planning for a tremendous amount of players leaving early for the league or willingly transfer...

Saban apparently isnt encouraging any of his juniors to leave just yet

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=5938951

 

[woofermazing]

Saban apparently isnt encouraging any of his juniors to leave just yet

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=5938951

Those who stay....

will be cut.