Oversigning (capacity 25, everyone welcome! maybe)

[Deety]

Thing is, oversigning means a school is accepting that if natural attrition doesn't occur, then students who would otherwise have been considered perfectly acceptable for the team will have to be cut purely because the school bet the wrong numbers. May be tough to prove in any individual case, but the intention, or at least the willingness, to pull a schollie on someone who is otherwise doing what they ought is an unavoidable assumption of oversigning. That's wrong.

 

[Nutriaitch]

It's how they seem generally to work in the SEC, for sure. Not so much elsewhere, although to be fair the explicit promise is only year to year, at every school (that may even be an NCAA rule).

i was talking about all scholarships, not just athletic.

his wasn't yanked at the last minute.
it was yanked at the end of the spring semester, at which time all scholarship renewals are decided upon.

question about rules now.
when you yank a scholly, can you limit which schools he goes to afterwards?

or is that only done when a kid asks to be released from his scholly?


the reason I ask is this:
When Perrilloux was let go, there weren't any restrictions (at least released publicly) as far as what schools he could or couldn't transfer to.
He was straight up cut, get the fuck outta here.

Garrett on the other hand, couldn't go to any other SEC school except Miss. St.
This sounds more like the prototypical transfer to me, but had always heard that he was cut.

 

[Emperor Brutus]

LSU is graduating 11 seniors. Currently have a recruiting class of 19 and counting.

Alabama is graduating 8 seniors this year. Currently have a recruiting class of 20 and counting, plus 2 guys taking a greyshirt this year who will be going on scholarship starting next quarter/semester.

So are LSU (8 players oversigned) and Alabama (14 players oversigned) planning for a tremendous amount of players leaving early for the league or willingly transfer... or are they going to force fringe players to take Medical Hardship Waivers for non-career ending injuries, make recruits accept greyshirts after they get on campus (and force them to transfer if they don't accept), have a fringe player get cut for "violation of team rules" for a very mild offense, etc.

Anyone else seeing a problem with this?

Do you have a link to each schools scholarship breakdown by class, or did you just do the numbers for these two schools on your own?

 

[jwinslow]

You can limit where a prospect goes for one year. After that he is free to attend any school. I'm assuming they just wanted Perrilloux out as fast as possible.

NavyBuck is the NCAA rule guru on OSU boards. He could give more legal precedent on these topics.

edit: removed Boren mistake quoted below

 

[Tonyank]

i was talking about all scholarships, not just athletic.

his wasn't yanked at the last minute.
it was yanked at the end of the spring semester, at which time all scholarship renewals are decided upon.

question about rules now.
when you yank a scholly, can you limit which schools he goes to afterwards?

or is that only done when a kid asks to be released from his scholly?


the reason I ask is this:
When Perrilloux was let go, there weren't any restrictions (at least released publicly) as far as what schools he could or couldn't transfer to.
He was straight up cut, get the fuck outta here.

Garrett on the other hand, couldn't go to any other SEC school except Miss. St.
This sounds more like the prototypical transfer to me, but had always heard that he was cut.

leave me alone

 

[MaxBuck]

Rodriguez could have told Boren he could not go to OSU the first year ...

Actually, he couldn't, since Boren was prevented by Big Ten rules from accepting an athletic scholarship from any other B10 school once he left Michigan. There was sweet FA Rodriguez could do about where Boren went in-conference.

 

[Nutriaitch]

You can limit where a prospect goes for one year. Rodriguez could have told Boren he could not go to OSU the first year, but instead he was given a free pass to leave.

I'm assuming they just wanted Perrilloux out as fast as possible.

NavyBuck is the NCAA rule guru on OSU boards. He could give more legal precedent on these topics.

thanks for the info.
makes more sense now.

 

[jwinslow]

See Maxbuck's correction and my edit. I believe they can restrict them for one year (if taking a scholarship, they can walk on anywhere), but only do so for competitive reasons or plain old spite

 

[woofermazing]

why?

if you get an academic scholarship, and proceed to sit on your ass and grades drop, you lose that scholarship (at least that's how it worked at the University I attended).

As it should be. The University is going to just carry your dead weight if you ain't even gonna try.

so why should you keep an athletic scholarship if you don't put forth the effort to stay in good standing with the team?

The University shouldn't be responsible to carry this dead weight either.

Well, it isn't the kids fault that the coach is an idiot and can't evaluate talent or commitment.

At other schools, coaches might find a way to motivate, instill a good work ethic, and overall mold the kid into a man. There's no time for that in the SEC though apparently. Too much money is at stake.

 

[cjmik_75]

Well, it isn't the kids fault that the coach is an idiot and can't evaluate talent or commitment.

At other schools, coaches might find a way to motivate, instill a good work ethic, and overall mold the kid into a man. There's no time for that in the SEC though apparently. Too much money is at stake.

THIS.

 

[sandgk]

Do you have a link to each schools scholarship breakdown by class,... ?

Looks like those numbers are taken from the respective eligibility charts culled from Scout or similar services.

 

[gracelhink]

Looks like those numbers are taken from the respective eligibility charts culled from Scout or similar services.

Thanks for the links, Sandgk.
20 DBs, 13 rbs, 16 wrs and 19 DL on scholarship next year?
IMHO Alabama depth chart violates the integrity of NCAA athletics at new stinking levels of immorality.:frown2:
Did Depriest know that when he verbaled to Bama there would be 18 scholarship Linebackers competing for the 3 postions in a 4-3 for 2011?
That is 6 deep on the depth chart friends. :(

 

[Wingate1217]

Thing is, oversigning means a school is accepting that if natural attrition doesn't occur, then students who would otherwise have been considered perfectly acceptable for the team will have to be cut purely because the school bet the wrong numbers. May be tough to prove in any individual case, but the intention, or at least the willingness, to pull a schollie on someone who is otherwise doing what they ought is an unavoidable assumption of oversigning. That's wrong.

I agree....I wonder how this oversigning and the subsequent yanking of schollies affects a school's APR score? Can't help, but I could be wrong....

 

[sandgk]

interesting time to ask that Wingate - Head Coach APR Portfolio came into place this year. Searchable Database here.

As for APR - if a kid on scholarship is ditched by a school for academic issues and that athlete does not complete a degree course they should count against the totals. Do they though? Great question. The other real question is whether or not those who are shuffled to side like so much used meat - purportedly for medical issues - will those count against the APR tallies?

Given the skyrocketing APR totals for Alabama and LSU under Saban and Miles (not picking on them, but they were the subject of some discussion earlier in thread) it would seem there is a disconnect between the number of kids "turfed" for whatever reason and the APR score accorded the institution on a retroactive basis.

Ole Miss was down in the 890's for 07-08, but bounced back to 957 in 08-09

 

[jwinslow]

For the APR scoring, a school gets two points per kid, 1 for returning, 1 for being qualified.

From last spring:

Duron Carter nets OSU 0 out of 2.
Thad Gibson nets OSU 1 out of 2 for going pro early.
Cam Heyward nets OSu 2 out of 2 for returning while eligible.

Someone kicked out for grades nets them 0 for 2.

Someone who takes a medical waiver gets at worst a 1 for 2, and perhaps there's an exception for injuries that makes it 2 for 2. That's a navybuck question.