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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
The loss of Conley and the lack of another true PG on the roster has been the biggest issue.....Butler wears down near the end of tight games with Hill seeing almost no minutes recently......with Conley we do not lose to Iowa, Butler and Purdue and quite possibly Michigan State.
This game tonight will not be a push over.......Michigan will come to play.....lets all hope we do the same.
This game tonight will not be a push over.......Michigan will come to play.....lets all hope we do the same.
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I think they will come to play. They will have heard "beat Michigan" at least 1000 times this week. Doesn't matter how sorry they are, TSUN will come to play and they know it.
I think some good points have been made about our choice of the zone. I think it has served us well, given our lack of a substantial bench. I think we miss Conley but I also think we miss Lewis on the offensive end.
Call me misguided, but I still think this team can reach the Sweet 16.
I think some good points have been made about our choice of the zone. I think it has served us well, given our lack of a substantial bench. I think we miss Conley but I also think we miss Lewis on the offensive end.
Call me misguided, but I still think this team can reach the Sweet 16.
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
The potential is there if Butler is on, KK is playing aggresive and a third scorer is scoring all at one time, but at this point in the season.....their production has not met the potential.....I would be happy if we made the tourney field right now. I may be a little critical of this team right now, but I just do not see the steady improvement...we have 9 regular season games left and the majority are tough games......I hope they start playing consistent, smart basketball.....do the things we do well.....do not do things we are not capable of.
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
IMHO I think the zone defense can be very hard to beat...If I was a coach I would be all for playing the zone defense...You don't have the pick n roll defense to worry about, which if ran correctly can not be stopped IMO...Stockton and Malone proved this for years in Utah...And if you stop it you are going to have leave guys open for 3's anyways...
Oden struggled last year guarding the pick n roll and we had better athletes last year that didn't play as good on the perimeter in terms of defending the 3 vs. what we are doing this year...
last year teams were scared to go in the paint because of Oden, so they worked to get more open looks from the outside, this year they can go in the paint, but are struggling from behind the arc...Call it luck call it whatever you want, but under 30% in 3pt defense is damn good...
It really has nothing to do with lack of athletes, maybe trying to keep Butler fresh, but Lighty, Turner, and Butler could man up against anyone in the big ten and Hunter could man any four and I do believe that KK could man a 5...
The coaches like our length to be able to defend shots, they like our length to get in the passing lanes, that is why you see the zone and it has obviously been effective other than letting a 35% shooter hit 8-12 against us...
Oden struggled last year guarding the pick n roll and we had better athletes last year that didn't play as good on the perimeter in terms of defending the 3 vs. what we are doing this year...
last year teams were scared to go in the paint because of Oden, so they worked to get more open looks from the outside, this year they can go in the paint, but are struggling from behind the arc...Call it luck call it whatever you want, but under 30% in 3pt defense is damn good...
It really has nothing to do with lack of athletes, maybe trying to keep Butler fresh, but Lighty, Turner, and Butler could man up against anyone in the big ten and Hunter could man any four and I do believe that KK could man a 5...
The coaches like our length to be able to defend shots, they like our length to get in the passing lanes, that is why you see the zone and it has obviously been effective other than letting a 35% shooter hit 8-12 against us...
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
You keep bringing the fact we are holding teams to a low % from behind the arc and that is fine but why stay with the zone when we are getting buried from outside? Sometimes a team gets hot on a given night.....why not make adjustments.....someone give me a reason why......also Johnson was not the first guy to hit 8 three pointers in one game on us this year.....see Barbosa from highly ranked UMBC....
Another issue I have is our terrible % from behind the arc.....yet we are still jacking shots from deep and not taking advantage of our size on most occasions....just not smart basketball and this is where the PG comes into play.....I wish we had a pure PG who could control things and get us into the right calls.....
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
OSUBasketballJunkie;1084096; said:
I am with you in adjusting, but it needs to be adjusting out of the zone, making sure someone is out on him...I am sure that was what Matta was telling them...I am sure he wasn't just telling them to let him shoot...Iowa did a very good job getting him shots,
Totally agree with you here, but it is at times the big man that is effecting this too as he is hanging around the 3 point line...Calls are correct IMO...it just has to do with guys that aren't hitting need to put the ball on the floor instead of continuing to shoot...
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
KK does float but there are times when I see him having good to great position in the post and the ball floats around the perimeter between the guards.....again.....insert a true pg here.
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OSUBasketballJunkie;1084130; said:
I agree 1,000%.
There are many times where the big man(KK or Hunter) has had position on the inside and we don't kick it in. It drives me crazy.
As far as shooting so many 3's, I have no problem with our team shooting 20 a game, as long as they come from inside out. Feed the post, make a move into the paint, look to the weakside for a kick out ( or shoot a baby hook for an easy 2). Basketball isn't rocket science and I think sometimes collegiate coaches have too big of an ego to abandon "their offense". There are times where Butler doesn't need a pick to beat his man yet they run the high pick and roll which just brings another defender to his area. We need to change it up a bit.
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LitlBuck
Kevin Warren is an ass
Well, I might as well put my two cents in for what it is worth.
Returning a zone defense. The asset of a zone defense is that you should be able to guard the perimeter much better while not having to worry about picks that much. I would be interested in knowing the percentage of field goals made against Syracuse over the years. The a reason I bring up Syracuse is because they play a lot of zone and are in a pretty good conference. Ohio State's three-point field-goal percentage defense should be down for the reason I stated. The zone defense also allows players not to play as "hard" as they do when playing man-to-man and that could be one of the reasons why we are playing zone. However, two years ago when Butler was playing the PG I don't recall us playing much zone defense.
I said earlier this season that Butler would wear down as the season progressed because of the amount of minutes he was playing but oh no he had lost 10 pounds and he would never get tired. That is a bunch of crap. Just because a guy is lighter in weight does not mean that his legs are not going to tire out.
The liability of a zone defense is probably the interior because you are so concerned about the outside shooting which the zone is supposed to take away. A coach does not get very happy when he has his team playing a zone defense and the other team is hitting threes Another liability of the zone defense is the fact that it allows the other team to dictate tempo.
Regarding our offense, I have no idea what the hell is going on. Last year, Lighty strong point was taking the ball to the basket but this year he seems more willing to settle for the outside shot. Turner needs to take it to the basket a little more also. Both of these guys seem to be very happy just to jack up threes were if they penetrated they might get an easier shot or be able to dish into one of the big guys in the interior. Also, as mentioned above, there are times when KK will have good position on the inside and the wings don't even look at him. They just pass the ball back out to Butler.
I would like to see this team make into the tournament and I hope by Butler going public this team will finally wake up and play with some intensity and play smart and not play as individuals but as a team.
Returning a zone defense. The asset of a zone defense is that you should be able to guard the perimeter much better while not having to worry about picks that much. I would be interested in knowing the percentage of field goals made against Syracuse over the years. The a reason I bring up Syracuse is because they play a lot of zone and are in a pretty good conference. Ohio State's three-point field-goal percentage defense should be down for the reason I stated. The zone defense also allows players not to play as "hard" as they do when playing man-to-man and that could be one of the reasons why we are playing zone. However, two years ago when Butler was playing the PG I don't recall us playing much zone defense.
I said earlier this season that Butler would wear down as the season progressed because of the amount of minutes he was playing but oh no he had lost 10 pounds and he would never get tired. That is a bunch of crap. Just because a guy is lighter in weight does not mean that his legs are not going to tire out.
The liability of a zone defense is probably the interior because you are so concerned about the outside shooting which the zone is supposed to take away. A coach does not get very happy when he has his team playing a zone defense and the other team is hitting threes Another liability of the zone defense is the fact that it allows the other team to dictate tempo.
Regarding our offense, I have no idea what the hell is going on. Last year, Lighty strong point was taking the ball to the basket but this year he seems more willing to settle for the outside shot. Turner needs to take it to the basket a little more also. Both of these guys seem to be very happy just to jack up threes were if they penetrated they might get an easier shot or be able to dish into one of the big guys in the interior. Also, as mentioned above, there are times when KK will have good position on the inside and the wings don't even look at him. They just pass the ball back out to Butler.
I would like to see this team make into the tournament and I hope by Butler going public this team will finally wake up and play with some intensity and play smart and not play as individuals but as a team.
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crazybuckfan40
Head Coach
Well I will be back after the game...Hope that we come out and play well, and we start to put this shit together and get ready for Sunday...
Everyone with a good game, shooting the ball well, playing together, rebounding and defending the perimeter...
Everyone with a good game, shooting the ball well, playing together, rebounding and defending the perimeter...
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naptownbuck
Da Truth :)
OSUBasketballJunkie;1084130; said:
wow these are scathing indictments i'm reading here when things aren't going so well. Early this season I got into some trouble on another site for having the audacity to challenge the notion that Jamar was a natural pg. I've always thought he was a scoring guard who could play the 1(most of the time rather effectively),but never thought of him as a true point(especialy when your best play is the open three off a high screen). Just interesting to read this when a couple months ago people would have been reluctant to point that out since he is the leader and best player on the squad.
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As for the zone, I agree with OBJ. I think its very effective most of the time and am all for us sticking with it as our primary defense. But when its getting beaten as bad as it was against Iowa, you have to make adjustments. Was Thad really so worried that KK couldn't hold Loopy down in the post that he was willing to give up open 3's to a hot shooter? I am sure he was preaching getting out on the shooter for most of the game, but at some point he has to realize it wasn't happening and make some kind of adjustment.
If Butler really is getting that worn down, then you have to start giving PJ Hill minutes. I don't care if we aren't as effecient on offense with him in there, we aren't going to do shit in the postseason if we don't have a somewhat fresh Butler. I realize PJ can't shoot like Jamar can, but he gets to the hoop better than Jamar and I think its just a different offense when he is in, not necessarily an ineffective one. Butler can't play 40 minutes a game AND carry the team on his back the last 3 or 4 minutes when no one else is making a shot, you gotta get him some rest, even if its only 4 or 5 minutes a game.
Lastly, I don't think anyone here would label Jamar a "true pg." He is a 2 guard with a decent handle who is forced into a position because of a complete and utter lack of depth at that position. He doesn't have the anticipation skills or driving ability that defines a true PG. But he is still the leading scorer and best player on the team.
If Butler really is getting that worn down, then you have to start giving PJ Hill minutes. I don't care if we aren't as effecient on offense with him in there, we aren't going to do shit in the postseason if we don't have a somewhat fresh Butler. I realize PJ can't shoot like Jamar can, but he gets to the hoop better than Jamar and I think its just a different offense when he is in, not necessarily an ineffective one. Butler can't play 40 minutes a game AND carry the team on his back the last 3 or 4 minutes when no one else is making a shot, you gotta get him some rest, even if its only 4 or 5 minutes a game.
Lastly, I don't think anyone here would label Jamar a "true pg." He is a 2 guard with a decent handle who is forced into a position because of a complete and utter lack of depth at that position. He doesn't have the anticipation skills or driving ability that defines a true PG. But he is still the leading scorer and best player on the team.
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OSUBasketballJunkie
Never Forget 31-0
You need to go back through some of old threads from the past few years.....CB40 and I have had this discussion numerous times......here at BP you can express your opinion in a respectful way and the board may not agree with your opinion but they will respect it.
I am not questioning Butler as a basketball player......I perfer a more "natural PG" and I do not think anyone here debates what type of player Jamar is.
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