Or Woodson... maybe Breaston....daddyphatsacs;880908; said:
Obviously I'd still take Teddy over all of em.
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Obviously I'd still take Teddy over all of em.
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;880910; said:
daddyphatsacs;880908; said:
None of those (along with Dwight) flat out struck fear into the hearts of opposing special teams coaches like Teddy did...
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OK, I just got back from wedding rehersal for my oldest daughter, so I figured I'd do something constructive. Tim Dwight, Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson, and Steve Breaston have been mentioned as kick returners possibly comparable to Ted Ginn. Let's do a little breakdown, shall we?
Howard: 2 KO TD, 1 punt TD (3 years)
Dwight: 5 punt TDs (3 years?)
Woodson: 1 punt TD (2 years)
Breaston: 1 KO TD, 4 punt TDs (4 years)
Totals: 12 years, 3 KO TDs, 11 punt TDs
Ginn: 2 KO TDs, 6 punt TDs (2.5 years = 2 years KO returner, 3 years punt returner)
Ted Ginn returned punts for 3 years and kickoffs for 2 years, and had as almost as many kickoff TDs in two years as those four did in 12 years. Teddy also had as many punt TDs as did the combinations of:
Dwight and Howard (6 TDs)
Dwight and Woodson (6 TDs)
Howard, Woodson, and Breaston (6 TDs)
Now, note the last stat. Teddy Ginn had as many punt return touchdowns as did Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson, and Steve Breaston combined.
Howard: 2 KO TD, 1 punt TD (3 years)
Dwight: 5 punt TDs (3 years?)
Woodson: 1 punt TD (2 years)
Breaston: 1 KO TD, 4 punt TDs (4 years)
Totals: 12 years, 3 KO TDs, 11 punt TDs
Ginn: 2 KO TDs, 6 punt TDs (2.5 years = 2 years KO returner, 3 years punt returner)
Ted Ginn returned punts for 3 years and kickoffs for 2 years, and had as almost as many kickoff TDs in two years as those four did in 12 years. Teddy also had as many punt TDs as did the combinations of:
Dwight and Howard (6 TDs)
Dwight and Woodson (6 TDs)
Howard, Woodson, and Breaston (6 TDs)
Now, note the last stat. Teddy Ginn had as many punt return touchdowns as did Desmond Howard, Charles Woodson, and Steve Breaston combined.
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daddyphatsacs
Let the cards fall...
MililaniBuckeye;880954; said:
Good stuff Mil, it is settled..........Ginn is the best returner in Big Ten history. The stats don't lie.
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Nice work, Mili...
"Woodson: 1 punt TD (2 years)"
Damn, I guess that 1 return left quite an impression on me. :(
"Woodson: 1 punt TD (2 years)"
Damn, I guess that 1 return left quite an impression on me. :(
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Historical look at OSU on the road vs Pac 10 since 1951(reg season only, no Bowl games, courtesy Stassen)
10/3/1953@California (4-4-2) W 33-19 OSU record that year 6-3
10/1/1955@Stanford (6-3-1) L 0-6 OSU 7-2
10/5/1957@Washington (3-6-1) W 35-7 OSU 9-1
10/2/1959@Southern California (8-2) L 0-17 OSU 3-5-1
10/6/1962@UCLA (4-6) L 7-9 OSU 6-3
10/19/1963@Southern California (7-3) L 3-32 OSU 5-3-1
10/2/1965@Washington (5-5) W 23-21 OSU 7-2
10/7/1967@Oregon (2-8) W 30-0 OSU 6-3
10/4/1969@Washington (1-9) W 41-14 OSU 8-1
10/7/1972@California (3-8) W 35-18 OSU 9-2
10/4/1975@UCLA (9-2-1) W 41-20 OSU 11-1
9/26/1981@Stanford (4-7) W 24-19 OSU 9-3
9/13/1986@Washington (8-3-1) L 7-40 OSU 10-3
9/23/1989@Southern California (9-2-1) L 3-42 OSU 8-4
9/10/1994@Washington (7-4) L 16-25 OSU 9-4
9/9/2000@Arizona (5-6) W 27-17 OSU 8-4
9/22/2001@UCLA (7-4) L 6-13 OSU 7-5
Not real scientific but just anecdotally it looks like when we have a very good to great team and they have a bad one we win easy.
When we are mediocre and they are mediocre we lose a close one.
When we are average and they are really bad we win a close one.
When we are bad and they are good we get drilled.
I think 2007 is shaping up(at least early) as #3. I'm still looking for an uncomfortably close win.
10/3/1953@California (4-4-2) W 33-19 OSU record that year 6-3
10/1/1955@Stanford (6-3-1) L 0-6 OSU 7-2
10/5/1957@Washington (3-6-1) W 35-7 OSU 9-1
10/2/1959@Southern California (8-2) L 0-17 OSU 3-5-1
10/6/1962@UCLA (4-6) L 7-9 OSU 6-3
10/19/1963@Southern California (7-3) L 3-32 OSU 5-3-1
10/2/1965@Washington (5-5) W 23-21 OSU 7-2
10/7/1967@Oregon (2-8) W 30-0 OSU 6-3
10/4/1969@Washington (1-9) W 41-14 OSU 8-1
10/7/1972@California (3-8) W 35-18 OSU 9-2
10/4/1975@UCLA (9-2-1) W 41-20 OSU 11-1
9/26/1981@Stanford (4-7) W 24-19 OSU 9-3
9/13/1986@Washington (8-3-1) L 7-40 OSU 10-3
9/23/1989@Southern California (9-2-1) L 3-42 OSU 8-4
9/10/1994@Washington (7-4) L 16-25 OSU 9-4
9/9/2000@Arizona (5-6) W 27-17 OSU 8-4
9/22/2001@UCLA (7-4) L 6-13 OSU 7-5
Not real scientific but just anecdotally it looks like when we have a very good to great team and they have a bad one we win easy.
When we are mediocre and they are mediocre we lose a close one.
When we are average and they are really bad we win a close one.
When we are bad and they are good we get drilled.
I think 2007 is shaping up(at least early) as #3. I'm still looking for an uncomfortably close win.
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Great stuff, Jax, but I don't think we'll be "average" this season...I think we'll be at least "good" if not "great"...
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OSUBuckeye4Life
"THE" Ohio State Buckeyes
MililaniBuckeye;881619; said:
....I also dont think Washington is going to be "really bad" either though. (I know you weren't implying that Milli).
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MililaniBuckeye;881619; said:
Agree overall but thats why I said at least early. I think at the game 3 stage, and first real game vs D1A athletes, we'll be just average.
Don't get me wrong, I think we'll win because UW is just horrible but I just have a feeling it might be closer than a lot think.
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Interesting data, jax, thanks for compiling it. As far as ratings go, my take on this game:
OSU (pretty good; potential to be 'very good')
UW (below average; potential to be surprisingly 'average')
However, some context for 'average' and 'horrible' might be helpful. I think OSU may be somewhat average compared to the school's tradition, but I think that's still 'good' when compared to most of D1.
OSU (pretty good; potential to be 'very good')
UW (below average; potential to be surprisingly 'average')
Is the data relevant to a modern JT led squad, though?
I can see a closer than necessary win.
However, some context for 'average' and 'horrible' might be helpful. I think OSU may be somewhat average compared to the school's tradition, but I think that's still 'good' when compared to most of D1.
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jwinslow;881628; said:
Of course I'm very careful to say I'm being completely anecdotal when I do one of these things but then again, I have a lot of faith in big numbers and 17 games over 60 some odd years is a big sample size for football imo. I have done something similar for our home opener's and B10 openers the past few years and found it to be remarkably reliable. I had some very sobering things to predict about 2004 just looking at historical data and it unfortunately was pretty close to the mark as well.
Agree, I thought about defining those terms but decided against it. It was just a quick glance at some data and sharing a trend(s) I think I see.
I think early that this '07 squad will be average by OSU standards but a very talented, well coached and motivated team by NCAA D1A average.
I think this UW team will be young and have a serious talent gap to overcome. They were just horrible by the numbers last year and in my very brief look at them I didn't see any reason to expect massive improvement(very cursory glance mind you).
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Taosman
Your Cousin In New Mexxico
I think a conservative power running game plays to UWs strength(defensive) and will help keep them in the game.
Conversely, an open offense will attack that secondary and expose a major weakness.
Bottom line............
JT will probably play it somewhat conservatively and into UW's hands making for a close game.
Conversely, an open offense will attack that secondary and expose a major weakness.
Bottom line............
JT will probably play it somewhat conservatively and into UW's hands making for a close game.
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Taosman;881636; said:
I keep seeing the UW faithful say that run D is their strong suit but I wonder if it isn't a case of a teams pass D being so bad no one took the good time and effort to run it down their throat consistently?
I do know from a quick glance at their NCAA rank last year they gave up something like 140 rypg and were 66th in Run Defense while playing in the PAC 10. That doesn't scream run stuffers to me. It might be semantics, they are saying Run D is their strong suit but they still aren't very good at it. I don't know.
I agree with you that Tressel ball could keep the game close, or that our inexperienced QB could do the same, but I'm just a bit dubious as to the claims of run D being a strong point for UW.
One thing we all know from 2002, if a team can't stop the run Tressel ball can still score high because he simply will not stop calling a play untill the other team proves they can stop it.
JT can be very WWH in his desire to grind meat on a Saturday afternoon.
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