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Game Thread Ohio State 3, Southern Cal 35 (Sept. 13)

I think what we've seen in these "big games" is that the Buckeyes have lacked either the willingness or the ability to be the aggressors or impose their will on the other team. The Buckeyes are playing entire games on their heels and reacting to what the other team does instead of making them react. They will not be able to fulfill their potential until they fix that.

Also, please know that I do not mean to bash here, but Boeckman just doesn't have it. There was a time where he was a very capable QB. He just hasn't been the same since that disastrous finish to the MSU game last season. Since then he has lacked composure - he makes a lot of poor decisions or sometimes makes no decision at all, which can be just as bad.

It seems to me that it has reached the point where allowing him to lead the offense is cheating the hard work that a lot of other players are putting in to try to make this team successful. I'm not trying pin it all on him, but it's plain to see that his very presence on the field gives opposing defenses a glaring weakness to attack and it's making it tougher for other players to do their jobs - and yes, that includes the O-line. It seems to me like his performance has regressed to the point where I can't think of a single strength he brings to the team. There's some areas where he's acceptable, but nothing where I'd say he excels or where an opposing team has to account for him.

The silver lining I guess is that USC is an excellent team - undoubtedly the best in the country right now - and the things that they were able to do to the Buckeyes and Boeckman tonight are things that not every team has the capability of doing. There's gonna be a lot of doom and gloom in Buckeye Country for a bit (and for good reason I guess) but this is not a lost season. While the goal of a national championship has evaporated, many of the other goals - Big Ten Championship, beating M*ch*g*n, going to the Rose Bowl - are still out there to be had.

I remember the disappointment after the Buckeyes lost to Texas and Vince Young at the Shoe. This is a different kind of disappointment for sure, but one of the ways to help put it behind is the same. Even if you're gonna catch shit from people at work or family or friends - wear your Buckeye gear. Wear it with pride and keep your head up when talking about the Buckeyes this week. Show that you're proud win or lose. Also, show up to the Troy game next week. Don't boo them (like I heard people boo Justin Zwick and Ryan Hamby after the Texas game that year) and shout down anybody who does. Cheer them on as loud as ever - because they're gonna need it.

And finally... I think I'm more disappointed in Kirk Herbstriet than I am in the team's performance. I guess if his goal to make everybody forget he was ever a Buckeye, you could say he's doing a good job. I'm not saying he should be a homer or a pollyanna when he's on TV, but shit... he said some things tonight that I'm gonna find hard to forgive. Some of the words he used just threw his alma mater under the bus - and denigrated the team and the players - many of whom have accomplished more in a Buckeye uniform than he ever did. It's really disheartening to hear a former captain go on national TV and bash these guys in a way that shows such a lack of pride. Just for some perspective - if the things he said on TV tonight were posts in this thread, Herbie's ass would've been banned. That's sad.
 
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I'm sorry to say this, but I just don't think we're going anywhere fast with Tressel anymore. I think he was great for OSU in winning the Championship 6 years ago, winning the Big 10, and beating Michigan, but this is the 3rd straight time we've pulled up lame against a top team and much of it can be attributed to the coaching.

We have the best RB (possibly the best overall player) in CFB and Tressel chooses to sit him out of the biggest game of the season. Sure, he's not 100% but it's certainly not like he's incapacitated either. He looked good 3 days ago and begged Tressel to put him in there tonight.

We get Pryor in the game in the first possession and move the ball down the field with ease. We then take a winning act and go back to relying on Boeckmann more and the less effective he is, the more he stays in and the less we see of Pryor. We saw the same thing in both title games. Pittman was successful and Tressel stopped using him.

I hope BP doesn't view this as coach-bashing. I like Tressel and think he's a class act (unlike Carroll and his shameful playcalling on 4th and 3 with a 32 point lead, I was thrilled that the Bucks came up big on that play), but I think we have to seriously consider the possibility to Tressel just might not be able to get things done anymore.

I hope I don't get banned. I still love the buckeyes and this forum but I just have to call it as I see it.
 
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ScarletNGry;1259827; said:
I have been watching this coming for a while now. Losing to a great team is nothing to be embarrassed about. I am proud that our players did not fold and continued to play hard thoughout. USC is scary good. They play with so much passion it will be tough for them to maintain that passion for a whole schedule... so I guess I agree that the only team I see beating this USC team is themselves.


All that said I have to wonder why we look so slow? We have all the athletes to match up with the best teams in the country but we seem to lack the killer instinct I see in so many of these other teams. Why do we seem to hold our athletes back and make them react to everything around them instead of letting them create? Maybe I am just seeing it but look at this game for example... USCs entire defense was making plays by attacking and moving forward while it seemed like every play we made was 4 or 5 yards downfield. I just seems so frustrating to see a team with so much talent seem to wait for everything to come to them instead of attacking.

Does anyone else feel what I am talking about here?


SNG

+1
 
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bukIpower;1259758; said:
Now, as we move forward i'm starting to worry just HOW MANY games are we going to lose this year (if we do lose any at all)??? Penn State SCARES me now, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Michgan State all the sudden are games where if we dont' play and play well we could lose the game. Just for being such a senior lead team its amazing how we're MENTALLY not there anymore. I think mentally the kids that are Seniors/Juniors (or redshirted Sr or JR) are not a confident group. These big games and big loses have taken its toll and I think its evident. We seem to walk around out there after plays and the other teams are getting up fired up and running around. Mentally I am worried about this team for the rest of the season. How will this affect us??

Like Ohio State, USC is a lot better than Penn St, Illinois, Wisconsin, or Mich State. I wouldn't start freaking out.
 
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What I liked today was Chikwa! Next year we'll have a great group of DB's with Chik, Washington, Coleman, and Russel (the dreaded NEXT YEAR talk).

Pryor looked great and you know he's a VERY safe QB. He didn't throw the ball if he was being sacked just took the loss. He will get us over the hump I think in the coming years (think Junior year).

Herron is our 2nd best back by a mile and we'll be in good hands next year as long as our offensive line can come back strong (which is can only go up from here).

Animal plays his heart out as does Jenkins and Freeman. and AJ trapasso is a weapon.
 
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Gandolf;1259841; said:
I'm sorry to say this, but I just don't think we're going anywhere fast with Tressel anymore. I think he was great for OSU in winning the Championship 6 years ago, winning the Big 10, and beating Michigan, but this is the 3rd straight time we've pulled up lame against a top team and much of it can be attributed to the coaching.

We have the best RB (possibly the best overall player) in CFB and Tressel chooses to sit him out of the biggest game of the season. Sure, he's not 100% but it's certainly not like he's incapacitated either. He looked good 3 days ago and begged Tressel to put him in there tonight.

We get Pryor in the game in the first possession and move the ball down the field with ease. We then take a winning act and go back to relying on Boeckmann more and the less effective he is, the more he stays in and the less we see of Pryor. We saw the same thing in both title games. Pittman was successful and Tressel stopped using him.

I hope BP doesn't view this as coach-bashing. I like Tressel and think he's a class act (unlike Carroll and his shameful playcalling on 4th and 3 with a 32 point lead, I was thrilled that the Bucks came up big on that play), but I think we have to seriously consider the possibility to Tressel just might not be able to get things done anymore.

I hope I don't get banned. I still love the buckeyes and this forum but I just have to call it as I see it.

This will be controversial, but I think that in this day and age where winning big trumps just plain winning in CFB, you should try to score against good teams when you have them on the ropes. I don't think you should run up the score against bad teams that you were supposed to beat anyways or against service academies, but if OSU was taking it to SC in the fourth, I would expect them to try to pile it on. It's just the way CFB is these days, like it or not.
 
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I'm not sure if I should let it set in, and then post my thoughts later, or do it now. So if you see this post, then I continued to write and post them.

First off, I will admit I did not see this coming. I honestly thought we would win. All week long I was saying that we had the better defense, and that would be the difference. I didn't think USC was tested, and I thought we were, and that would help us. I actually thought the only big advantage USC had was being at home. Well...I will admit when I was wrong, and I was.

First off, just some thoughts I have about USC. Their wide recievers weren't that great, but everybody else that could catch a ball was. FB, RB, TE, it didn't matter. So many weapons to catch the ball, that you couldn't cover everybody, and on broken plays, somebody who was blocking could just step up and catch the ball and go 10 yards. McKnight is amazing. His vision is better than anybody i've seen in a long time. He isn't just good at cutting back, but he knows exactly when and where to do it. The offensive line for USC wasn't amazing, but it did enough to let McKnight, or whoever was back there do what they needed to do. Pressure does not really affect Sanchez. He didn't care. He was very calm. Defensively USC is faster than any team i've seen Ohio State play. Period. It would be a shame for USC to lose a game this year with that defense.

Ohio State looked average at best. Todd Boeckman did not handle pressure well. He didn't have much time either. Pretty much, all USC did was pin their ears back and attack him with blitzes all night. And it worked. Either he was not ready to get rid of the ball quickly, or our wide recievers were not able to run quick routes to get open, or USC's secondary was just all over the place. I think it was a little bit of all of that. Our second drive. With Pryor and Boeckman. That was a great drive. Penalties cost us a TD on that drive. The way me methodically moved the ball down the field there, with both QBs, was beautiful. Boeckman was 5-5 at one point, and Pryor was finding ways to get first downs. Both were doing well, and the O-line was getting a hell of a push. I think both Boeckman and Pryor looked good early, and I think both did not look as good later. We could have used Pryor all game, or Boeckman all game, and the result would have still be just about the same. I think USC just adjusted after that first drive, and really just ATTACKED. They dictated what they wanted to do, and made us react to them. The WHOLE game, on both sides of the ball, we were reacting while they were attacking. That's pretty much the key. I honestly don't think the game was as bad as the score dictated in the trenches. But the mentality of attacking vs. reacting just seemed to be the key.

Beanie wouldn't have won this game for us. It may have changed the way the USC defense attacked, but they still would have attacked and still would have been sucessful at it. We may have had a few more big plays, but it wouldn't have been a game changer.

I think it's still hard to tell how good this Buckeye team is this year. We are obviously a lot more talented than Ohio and YSU. And we are obviously a lot less talented than USC. But that leaves a huge middle of where we could fall. Troy will be a tough test, especially after this loss. I think that Ohio State's season will hinge on the Wisconsin game. That is the game I have circled now. After that I game I think we will know exactly where this team stands.

But I want to just say one thing. THE EFFORT WAS DEFINITELY THERE!!!! I saw a team that fought it's ass off. Both teams did. We just weren't the better team. So what? USC is just that good. No shame is losing to #1. I don't think the score is a good indication of how these teams stack up against each other. I do think USC is better, but I don't think Ohio State is light years behind them or anything. It just seemed like ANYTHING that could go wrong for the Buckeyes, did. Maybe if it had not, then the score would have been closer...but I think the L would have still been by our name.

Obviously we need to get better if we want to win the Big 10. I believe we will though. I hope that by the end of the season, we may be saying, "You know what? If we played USC again right now, maybe we could beat them." One thing I have loved about Jim Tressel's teams...is that they tend to grow a lot during a season. Time to get growing boys!

Go Bucks!!!
 
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Rough night, no doubt about that. JT, little animal, and all the rest of the guys took the loss with as much dignity as you can after such a bad loss. I already had mounds of respect for Laurinaitis, but after hearing his comments I have much more. I really hope that I don't read a lot of "bad officiating" or "if we had Beanie..." comments from fellow Buckeye fans over the next week. The truth is that Beanie wouldn't have made that much of a difference (32pts.) and the officiating was pretty consistent. USC is absolutely loaded and they were the better team tonight.
We know where the team is lacking: speed on the defensive line, big play receiver options, and a defensive scheme to handle the teams with athletic qbs and spread offenses (last point not really relating to this game). Those things can be addressed as the season progresses and during the offseason. I will most definitely continue rooting on my Buckeyes as they work towatd beating scUM, winning the big ten title, and winning whatever bowl game we go to.

O - H
 
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Gandolf;1259841; said:
I'm sorry to say this, but I just don't think we're going anywhere fast with Tressel anymore. I think he was great for OSU in winning the Championship 6 years ago, winning the Big 10, and beating Michigan, but this is the 3rd straight time we've pulled up lame against a top team and much of it can be attributed to the coaching.

We have the best RB (possibly the best overall player) in CFB and Tressel chooses to sit him out of the biggest game of the season. Sure, he's not 100% but it's certainly not like he's incapacitated either. He looked good 3 days ago and begged Tressel to put him in there tonight.

We get Pryor in the game in the first possession and move the ball down the field with ease. We then take a winning act and go back to relying on Boeckmann more and the less effective he is, the more he stays in and the less we see of Pryor. We saw the same thing in both title games. Pittman was successful and Tressel stopped using him.

I hope BP doesn't view this as coach-bashing. I like Tressel and think he's a class act (unlike Carroll and his shameful playcalling on 4th and 3 with a 32 point lead, I was thrilled that the Bucks came up big on that play), but I think we have to seriously consider the possibility to Tressel just might not be able to get things done anymore.

I hope I don't get banned. I still love the buckeyes and this forum but I just have to call it as I see it.

Donna Summers there Chief! IMO there are definitely coaching decisions to be made, but to queston JT is absurd. IMO, JT needs to make some CEO type decisions with the men around him. we cant do the same things over and over and expect a different result.
 
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DaddyBigBucks;1259848; said:
Is there a logical reason to assume that Ohio State is a lot better than PSU or Wisconsin this year?

We'll find out soon enough. Despite tonight I'm conceding NOTHING to the rest of the Big Ten, including Penn State and Wisconsin. Fuck 'em!
 
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matt_thatsme;1259857; said:
Rough night, no doubt about that. JT, little animal, and all the rest of the guys took the loss with as much dignity as you can after such a bad loss. I already had mounds of respect for Laurinaitis, but after hearing his comments I have much more. I really hope that I don't read a lot of "bad officiating" or "if we had Beanie..." comments from fellow Buckeye fans over the next week. The truth is that Beanie wouldn't have made that much of a difference (32pts.) and the officiating was pretty consistent. USC is absolutely loaded and they were the better team tonight.
We know where the team is lacking: speed on the defensive line, big play receiver options, and a defensive scheme to handle the teams with athletic qbs and spread offenses (last point not really relating to this game). Those things can be addressed as the season progresses and during the offseason. I will most definitely continue rooting on my Buckeyes as they work towatd beating scUM, winning the big ten title, and winning whatever bowl game we go to.

O - H

With a return date next year I'm happy that no serious bitterness has built up amongst the two teams. OSU and USC have a long tradition against each other and I think both fan bases have to respect that and do.
 
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On the 4th and 3 call by Carroll...would you rather he put MORE points on the board by kicking the FG? Seriously, he was letting the Buckeyes have the chance to stop them from scoring by going for it.

Realize that if he had taken the easy FG, the final score (likely) would have been 38-3 instead of 35-3 (hey, it makes a difference...ok maybe not :p).

I'm pretty sure that going for it in that situation is pretty accepted and expected. He was letting the OSU D make a play in order to stop the Trojans from scoring.
 
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Yea but ....
shetuck;1259789; said:
My shorthand notes from JT's post-game presser for those of you who didn't catch the little bit they showed on ESPiN...

We played a great football team. True. We knew we were going to be playing a great team before we scheduled this series.

The penalties made it hard. Well, no one to blame but ourselves. Some were questionable, but penalties didn't decide this game . . . .

Our guys fought hard. We didn't do best we could do, but fought hard. Honestly, I felt like we folded. I hate to be overly critical, but, though it is apparent we don't have the physical talent of a USC right now, we have a pretty darn athletic and experienced team. We should have given all we had. We weren't USC-caliber, but for two weeks in a row we played without pride or enthusiasm. Even if we all inflated our ability, the past two weeks were uninspired.

SC is a great team. No doubt. I can't wait for next season. I'm hoping for a September ice storm in the 'shoe. If given the opportunity, it's been determined that we won't be calling off the dogs--no one will soon forget the way we lost this one. But now I'm unfortunately getting ahead of myself. . . .

What's important for us is to roll up sleeves go back to work and get better. Really? Because we're supposed to be a senior-led team. I don't see us getting much better this season. More than anything, this game confirms to me that we're the beneficiaries of a weak conference. In '06, we were good enough to win the crown, but faltered for whatever reason. Florida was a great team, but you can't convince me we should have expected a blow out. Since that game, we've been outmanned by truly legitimate opponents. I love our seniors, but there's no longer any question in my mind that we suffer from a talent gap when compared to the teams that have been elite each season (and that list is in flux). Even our experience can't compensate for this gap.

To me, hope lies in the fact that Tressel now seems to be recruiting talent that is rivaled by no one. Pryor looked ready to take the reigns at 21-3 (and, frankly, I don't think we would have hurt ourselves by giving him the ball at that point--I understand the reluctance, and I appreciate Todd, but it is painfully obvious we'll only get so far with Todd at the helm. The happy feet and wide-receiver-lock-ons that we've seen are not what I'd expect from a 5th-year QB. Calm poise just doesn't seem to be there. It isn't all on Todd--not even close. But I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't behoove the program to go ahead and get real life reps for TP).

And by the way. To the remarkable number of Big Ten fans out there that want to act as OSU critics in the aftermath of losses like this: Go ahead and beat us. Then you'll have a valid critique to offer. Until then, shut up the F--- up you half-rates!


We can't make those errors and expect to be successful. Obviously. It's getting redundant.

Question re turning point in game (Small TD called back). Anytime you have chance to seize momentum and redirect it your way, had we got it at 14-10, we wouldn't have ended up at 35-3 obviously. That was a huge moment. Not getting the ball back into position for an easier FG was bad. You can't have turn-overs, let alone turn-overs for touchdowns against a team like SC. They're too good a team for those things.

Question re format to use TP. We discussed it earlier in the week. Maybe going by series wasn't the best thing. We thought it might be good to be able to talk to them in between times when they were in there. We knew we were facing an outstanding defense. We thought it was gonna be possible and maybe something that would work for us. We have to go back and re-evaluate to see if it did and if it can.

Question re problems with TB and perhaps now there's competition at QB. There's always competition for playing time. We're gonna go back and re-evaluate everything from what we designed, how we executed, and what to do to go forward to next game.

Another question... The thing I've been impressed with SC is that they're not fancy, their protection is good, their run game is good, they're balanced with 50/50 run/pass. Mark has good feet and keeps the play alive, misdirection passes well. He's a fourth-year guy, so he knows when to throw the ball away. They're good across the board. Receivers are good, backs are good, o-line is good, QB is good. They're a good football team. Good point. At least we know now that the whole spread offense/athletic QB argument is BS: we just aren't as good as we'd like to think. Doesn't matter what type of offense is pressed upon us; if the athletes are better, the athletes are better. Not that we won't still win the Big Ten--I think we will. But we're not a Top-5 team right now. We keep recruiting like this, well, we have the coaches and facilities to ensure we will be as good as it gets in a couple years. Until then . . . I don't know what to say. Maybe my pride blinded me to a certain extent. . . .


Last line is exactly how I feel. We aren't that good. Period. Don't underestimate recruiting. We should be in the hunt for a National Championship soon, but right now we're not close. I feel crushed as I type this, but it is how I feel.
 
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