OFFICIAL: Biblical/Theology Discussion thread

[lvbuckeye]

I agree here as well. Which is why I try and define what little I could know about God as the universe, which I can observe, test.. etc....... and not the words of some text. Of course, I also recognize I'm making assumptions and haev faith that those assumptions are correct... which is the reason why I don't hang my faith over anyone elses head, or demand anyone believe me.

what about God can you see, observe, or test? i hope you don't think that i'm banging you over the head with my faith, because i'm not. i'm merely explaining my position to you. I never said you're going to hell (i'm not God, i'm not the Judge). you assumed my position for me.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, I try to evaulate God as "scientifically" as I can... Does what I observe make sense with what I think about the nature of God. And, so far, my answer has been "yes" But.. that could change, I suppose.

no, it doesn't make sense,because God is supernatural, and is not subject to the laws that govern our natural realm.

I would argue that one is never a religion at all... or, that is, one's religion should grow as they do. A man, like my father, with a simple faith would say "I'm catholic and I go to church, what more do I need?" and be done with the conversation. He's no longer growing religiously...

Like I said, that's fine if it works for someone... if it's enough. Actually, having been inside my head for the last 36 years, that's beautiful in it's relative ease... God bless a man with a simple unquestioning faith.
But....

Mine is a different path.

can't argue with that, i guess. merely explain where i'm coming from.

 

[Bleed S & G]

no. God told him he'd have a son. because his wife was barren, he banged her servant Haggar, hence the lack of faith that God could cause an old barren lady to bear fruitful seed. Sarah DID become pregnant and gave birth to Isaac, just like God said she would. the reason that the descendants of Ishmael are not the true children of God is, although they have become a great and powerful nation just as God promised, they were born out of a lack of faith.

Havnt read this story since gradeschool.. im pretty sure sarah or God told him to do so with haggar, im fairly confident sarah did and then God told abe to get back with his lady

 

[hawaiianbuckeye]

BINGO. My point exactly. God, if He is, is a PERSONAL God... he reaches us individually... And, I should say, if it takes the Bible for God to reach you, so be it. I'm fine with that. But, what I'm not fine with, is that Christianity...Islam... Judiasm.. Buddhism.. any "ism" is the only way!

Because, as seems obvious to me, there are infinite ways to find the infinite.

EXACTLY why I can't stand organized religion. Get rid of organized religion and their "only way" ideals and you wouldn't have all this turmoil in the world. The Muslims and the Jews have been and forever will be in a war with each other b/c of their "gods" and their difference of opinions. The world will always be at war until people drop their stance on the belief that their religion is the "only way"!

A VERY intriguing and interesting site that will take you weeks to explore but surely spark your mind is: www.hiddenmeanings.com

HAYN

 

[Bleed S & G]

EXACTLY why I can't stand organized religion. Get rid of organized religion and their "only way" ideals and you wouldn't have all this turmoil in the world. The Muslims and the Jews have been and forever will be in a war with each other b/c of their "gods" and their difference of opinions. The world will always be at war until people drop their stance on the belief that their religion is the "only way"!

A VERY intriguing and interesting site that will take you weeks to explore but surely spark your mind is: www.hiddenmeanings.com

HAYN

I'll check that site out, and I agree with you 100%

They kill each other in the name of God.. the same God.

"You say your a muslim, cause God made you,
You say your a hindu, cause God made you,
You say your a jew, cause God made you,
Then we all kill each other, cause God told us to? Naw"
-Michael Franti

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

what about God can you see, observe, or test? i hope you don't think that i'm banging you over the head with my faith, because i'm not. i'm merely explaining my position to you. I never said you're going to hell (i'm not God, i'm not the Judge). you assumed my position for me.

No, we're fine.
What can I see, observe or test? Everything. Taking the simplicity "God is everywhere" OK... so how is this coffee cup an expression of the Lord? Thinking about things like that. That's what I mean. And... of course, as I've said earlier in this thread, admitting to such things winds people up in the looney bin.... FWIW, I don't know how this coffee cup is an expression of the Lord... but, I do see God in the nature of space and time, which Ive spent a lot of time thinking about over the years. Certainly more than coffee cups.

no, it doesn't make sense,because God is supernatural, and is not subject to the laws that govern our natural realm.

I don't argue God is subject to the laws that govern our realm. I argue that part of God is(are) those laws. Remember, LV, I believe in infinite universes as well. The vast majority of God, as I'm sure Bgrad would agree, I simply cannot know by taking the path I have taken... that is to say, other than as a theoretical construct, I can't know anything about other universes. But, I think about them and the consequences of their existence a lot.. and, of course, I am encourged quite a bit when things like M-Theory come out - at least in the way I understand them - as being in support of what I was thinking.

But, it could all be bullshit... so.. if it is, hopefully God can at least give me some credit for taking the issue seriously enough to devote my life to it.

 

[lvbuckeye]

Havnt read this story since gradeschool.. im pretty sure sarah or God told him to do so with haggar, im fairly confident sarah did and then God told abe to get back with his lady

pretty sure it was Sarah, not God who told him to bang her servant.

here it is: in Genesis 16, Sarai gives Hagar to Abram because she was barren. in Genesis 17, the LORD promises that Sarah would have a son. 18:10-15, the Angel of the LORD told Abraham that Sarah was pregnant with the promised son. she heard it and laughed because she was too old to have children. the LORD said "is anything too difficult for God?" and asked why she had laughed, but she denied laughing because she was afraid, and the LORD called her out on the lie. the remainder of chapter 18 and chapters 19 and 20 deal with Sodom and Gomorrah and Abraham's travels to Kadesh and Shur, where they have an exchange with Abimalech. chapter 21 opens with Sarah bearing a child, and Ishmael, Hagar's son mocking the celebration party when Isaac was weaned, and then deals with GOd's promise to Hagar that the child would be the father of a great nation.

Ishmael was born before the Promise to Sarah, so i was wrong to say that Abraham slept with her for a lack of faith. Ishmael was born when Abram was 86, Isaac was born when Abram was 100 Ishmael was 14 years older than Isaac.

 

[jwinslow]

EXACTLY why I can't stand organized religion. Get rid of organized religion and their "only way" ideals and you wouldn't have all this turmoil in the world.

I disagree completely. The typical causes might change, but there is plenty of turmoil with no roots in religion.

Christianity does not justify endless warfare, hatred and murder. Likewise, democracy does not justify some of the wars our country has engaged itself in.

People will always find a reason to go to war, religion, land, money, resources, etc.

The Muslims and the Jews have been and forever will be in a war with each other b/c of their "gods" and their difference of opinions.

Is the source of their conflict entirely religious? Or is geography also a large part of the unending unrest in the middle east?

Muslims & Jews in america don't murder each other without ceasing.

The world will always be at war until people drop their stance on the belief that their religion is the "only way"!

Why? Will the world suddenly stop having wars/battles if there is a worldwide religion? Won't humanity's lust for power and money still lead to trouble?

I think you're premise is a bit off. You feel it's wrong for religions to tell others that they are wrong. On the surface, it sounds like you're supporting all ways... but in fact you're only supporting certain belief systems (which dwell in relative/subjective truth, which alienates anyone who believes in absolute truth).

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

... On the surface, it sounds like you're supporting all ways... but in fact you're only supporting certain belief systems (which dwell in relative/subjective truth, which alienates anyone who believes in absolute truth).

Alienates... I guess.... but what is "alienation" without consequence. Big deal. Same old Philosophical gamesmanship and wordplay, jwin. Useless for practical purposes.

More than likely, Hyan - like me - is sincere in not giving a shit how anyone else views the world for the purposes of changing how someone else views the world. Here's a question I expect to be ignored or "answered" socratically... Can an "absolute truth" person adopt the same policy - not giving a crap how a relativist views the world for the purposes of changing the way he views the world? I would think not... lest they not be in favor of absolute truth, after all.

In any case, if all I have is the appearance of an openness to other ideas, so be it. I champion that "above" the alternative. Why? Because it works for me, of course.

 

[billmac91]

is it coincidence the Pandora's box story is so similar to Eve picking an apple off a tree?

or what about Deucalion building a wood chest and surviving a flood with his wife Pyrrha (sp?), while the rest of mankind was exterminated? The flood was created by Zeus b/c mankind made him angry with the way they were behaving.

Below I copied and pasted an article I read talking about striking similarities bewtenn the 2 religions of Christianity and Egyptian Mythology:

I guess when I read or listen to stories from the Bible, it just oozes of mythology. Whem I studied mythology in High School and College the similarites of stories to things found in the Bible made me curious. I pasted this article on Egyptian mythology (which came well before Christianity) ....and this is just Egyptian mythology....the two similarities above are Greek, which was also before Christianity......if you look into Pagan similiraties or compare any religion to any other religion there are always striking similarities....it just makes me think there are "borrowed myths" and that people throughout history created stories to explain unexplainable things....such as why there is water, what is our purpose on earth, where did we come from? anyways, this text breaks down Christianity with Egyptian Mythology, but I could just as easily linked a Greek breakdown:

Civilization in Egypt developed about 4,000 years b.c., with the development of hieroglyphics, a kind of picture writing, about 3,000 b.c. By 2,500 b.c., Re was the principal god of Egypt, typically represented in Egyptian art as a falcon-headed man crowned with a sun, and holding an Ankh. Osiris was the god of life, death, and resurrection; he was the god of grain, and of the Nile river.
In Egypt, the entire economy was dependent on the regular flooding of the Nile river. Its waters created lush farmland which would otherwise be barren, lifeless desert. The fear of the Egyptians was that the Nile would dry up permanently. In contrast, in Mesopotamia, the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers would flood violently and unpredictably, making course changes within a single year that would destroy everything in its path, while leaving other areas subject to drought and famine. The Egyptian gods were therefore more benign and predictable than were the Mesopotamian gods.
Egyptians prayed to their gods, like most other primitive god-believing cultures. They prayed for success in hunting, for generous production of crops, for the health of their children, and for eternity in an afterlife in the "other world". From the most ancient times, the Egyptians believed in an afterlife: When a human died, he or she would leave this earth, and travel to a different world. They also believed their Pharaoh was both human and god, in a single form, no different than Jesus was viewed as a combined god-man. The great pyramids are vivid testimony to the Egyptian belief in an afterlife. (This is quite a bit different from Judaism, where one is hard pressed to find any indication of an afterlife in the Old Testament. The Sadduccees were a class of Hebrew priests who specifically denied an afterlife.)
Just as the Nile would flood, and revive the farms and vegetation along its banks, Osiris lived, suffered, died, and would be reborn again. His life represented the annual flood cycle, and his suffering and death represented the death of the vegetation when the Nile dried up. His regeneration represents the regeneration when the Nile flooded, and the vegetation was reborn.
The story (as related by Budge in his introduction to the "Book of the Dead" and others) goes like this: Re, the Sun God and creator of all things, was the husband of Nut, the Goddess of the Sky. Re became furious when she was caught schtoinking Geb, the earth God, and Thoth, god of Justice. Re cursed Nut, and decreed that she could not give birth during any calendar year.
Nut then had to play card games with the moon God Selene and gradually won enough "light" from the moon (which explains why the moon is dimmer than the sun) to create five extra days during the end of the year, which had been only 360 days. Nut then gave birth to five children, first Osiris, then Horus the Elder (not to be confused with Horus son-of-Isis), then the evil Set (who was so mean, he dug himself out of his mother's body), Isis (who fell in love with Osiris while in the womb) on the fourth day, and Nephthys (future wife of Set) on the fifth day. Literally the son of two gods, Osiris' birthday falls five days before the end of the calendar year, and is celebrated traditionally on December 25th.
Osiris, typically shown as a dead king in mummy wrappings in Egyptian art, was the son of a god, the Sun god Re. He became a King of Egypt, and is therefore as allegedly historical as Jesus. Osiris was the King who united the wandering tribes of Egyptians, taught them the art of farming, and brought the Egyptians from a nomadic life, to a highly civilized society. As with Jesus, Osiris had the reputation as a teacher.
Set and Osiris apparently never got along well, and was jealous of Osiris' successful rule of Egypt. Set eventually murdered Osiris by tricking him into entering a coffin, which was then sealed shut with molten lead, to insure his death by suffocation. The box was then placed adrift in the Nile, and settled in a bush which, over time, grew into a great tree surrounding the coffin. Isis searched for the body of Osiris, and found it, in the tree trunk, which was now a column supporting the ceiling of a palace. She retrieved the body, and hid it. With a little magic, Osiris was breathed back into life. However, Osiris soon died for a second time, and was left hidden in the box. Soon, it was found by the evil Set, who dismembered the body into fourteen pieces, scattering them all over Egypt. Isis then traveled about with, of all people, Nepthys (Set's wife) and found all the pieces--including the all-important penis.
Isis had a child from the dead Osiris, Horus, typically represented by a falcon-headed male figure. Isis became pregnant in a miraculous manner: Taking Osiris’ dismembered penis with her, Isis traveled to the underworld with it. An ancient Egyptian relief depicts this conception by showing his mother Isis in a falcon form, hovering over an erect phallus of a dead and prone Osiris in the Underworld.As with Jesus, Horus is the result of a miraculous pregnancy.
Isis was the great goddess of Egypt, depicted in Egyptian art as a female with a vulture headdress, sitting on a throne. Isis protected young Horus, the earthly future king of Egypt, by concealing him in a swamp, to be kept away from danger while he was being raised, hidden away in the papyrus plants.

By now, Isis had recovered all the body parts of Osiris, and she got to work. She reassembled Osiris, using wax to attach the body parts. Linen wraps and ointments were used to preserve the corpse, which was buried. Horus (the result of the miraculous union between Isis and her dead husband's penis) took Isis to the Underworld, where they found Osiris. Magical words gradually brought the god back to life. Re now helped, by building a ladder so tall, they could climb to the "Other World," and be with the rest of the gods, which they did. Osiris was promoted to "King of the Gods," and Horus inherited Osiris' earthly rank as King of the Egyptians. The themes of suffering, dying a gruesome death, descending into Hell, resurrection, and ascending into heaven are common with Christianity.
Osiris suffered a cruel death of mutilation, after which he resurrected bodily. This became the basis, for Egyptians, of a belief in a personal bodily resurrection. Just as with Jesus, Osiris’ resurrection gave the ancient Egyptians hope that they, too, who had led good lives, would return to life after death. For the ancient Egyptian, the key to eternal life was leading a good life on earth. The theme of overcoming death through god-given immortality parallels Christian theology. (One must struggle to find the concept of sin being punished in the afterlife in the Old Testament: Yahweh punishes sin immediately, during the sinner's life. Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.)
The Egyptian festival of Osiris celebrates in a dramatic manner the death of Osiris, the finding of his corpse, and his return to life-- just as Easter and the passion plays celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Osiris was appealing to the common Egyptian because, having once been human, he could understand the common sufferings of humans, and sympathize with them. As a god, he could help humans in this world, through prayer. The same is true for Jesus. As with Christians, the attainment of a renewal of life in the "other world" was the intent of every Egyptian believer.
Below: No, it isn’t Jesus with a dove. It’s Horus, with a bird god descending to protect him.

In ancient Egypt, the pharoahs actually became Horus in life, somewhat similiar to the beliefs of the Catholics that the Pope is god's agent on earth.
Horus was a resurrected form of Osiris, and acted as an intermediary between Osiris, who could grant immortality, and Egyptians who were about to die. It worked like this: The spirit of the recently deceased would appear before Osiris, and would tell the god about all the good deeds during his life. Osiris would weigh the person’s heart, and the God Thoth, god of Justice, would record the result. If the heart weighed less than a feather, the person would be granted immortality. If the heart was heavy, the person would be thrown to jackals. As with Christianity, evil was punished in the afterlife.
Below: The Temple of Isis at Philae

The Isis cult was popular outside of Egypt, throughout the area of Egyptian influence. A Greco-Roman sanctuary existed on Philae, an island, now submerged, off the coast of Egypt, which temple has been relocated in Agilqiya. Isis sanctuaries have also been found on the island of Delos, Greece, and in Roman city of Pompeii. Strong arguments have been made that the portrayal of the Christian Virgin Mary was based upon the Isis cult, as the portraits of Isis with the child Horus are strikingly similar to those of the Virgin Mary with the Christ child.
Below: Isis with Child

Set is the evil brother of Osiris. He represents evil, catastrophes, destruction and death. Set plots against Osiris, Isis and Horus, who represent the forces of good. Set cannot destroy the good gods, nor can they destroy Set; therefore, evil remains a force in the world. The parallels between Set and Satan should be obvious. (In the Old Testament, Satan isn't much of a bad guy. It's usually the Hebrews themselve who irritate Yahweh. It's a Christian assumption that the serpent in Genesis is Satan, and in Job, it's arguable that, in Job, Satan doesn't do anything but report to Yahweh the current situation.)
Horus finally battles Set, in the form of two men, then in the form of a bear. The battle lasts three days and three nights. Horus finally wins, takes Set prisoner, only to have Isis suddenly feel pity for Set, and orders Set freed.
The Christianization of Egypt:
A Historically Plausible Scenario for How the Borrowing Occurred.
Both Greece and Israel traded extensively with Egypt, both importing beer, papyrus, jewelry, and exporting various products. As I mentioned earlier, there were temples of the popular Egyptian god Isis outside of Egypt, in Greece and Rome. There is little doubt that both the Jews and Greeks of the 1st century had access to Egyptian religious ideas.
Egypt was converted to Christianity very early, perhaps in the times of the apostles of Jesus. Mark, the alleged author of the first gospel, is traditionally credited as the founder of Egyptian Christianity, referred to as the "Coptic" church. The Coptics adhered to the "monophysite" heresy, which held that Jesus has but one nature, an idea consistent with ancient Egyptian theology, where a distinction between the human and the divine was unnecessary. That doctrine was held heretical by the Council of Chalcedon in 451 a.d.
Is it possible that Christianity originated in Egypt? It seems realistic that Christianity may have existed prior to the official conversion in 69 a.d. by Mark, and this is therefore a realistic possibility. If Egypt became Christian, it didn’t happen overnight. It seems a reasonable inference that there was significant contact between the early Christians, perhaps even the apostles themselves, very early in the evolution of Christianity. Religious ideas probably went in both directions.
The timing, prior to that of the earliest known gospels, seems appropriate for this to have happened. There was therefore an opportunity for the early Gospel writers to be influenced by the Egyptian themes of a man-god suffering, dying, descending into hell, resurrecting, and ascending into Heaven, with the result that common people could achieve immortality in the afterlife.
According to almost all critical scholars, the Gospel of Mark is the oldest of the four gospels, probably authored somewhere around 70 a.d Is it not possible that this original gospel writer took the story of a Jewish messiah wannabe, who faked a death on the cross, allegedly rose from the dead, and added to it the Egyptian theme of a man-god who died to enable eternal life?. Mark is caught with his hands in the proverbial cookie jar of Egyptian mythology.
Christianity, in its earliest days after the death of Jesus, must have been a struggling idea. On the other hand, the very popular religious ideas of Egypt had been around for about 2,500 years. To fuse the very popular core themes of Egyptian religion with the story of Jesus, the wannabe messiah who allegedly rose from the dead, would have improved the story, making it more popular with the common people. Tell them that not only did Jesus die and rise from the dead, proving he was the Messiah, but also his death gives you all a ticket to eternity in Paradise! Tell them Jesus was born under miraculous circumstances. Add a villain, Satan, who is responsible for all evil, whom Jesus fights and now you add drama to the story. Tell them Jesus will intercede in your prayers in this life, keep that nasty Satan away from you, and insure your immortality in the next. All this is from Egyptian mythology. (Christians couldn’t steal the whole thing, hook line and sinker, or people would recognize it as Egyptian.) Early Christians therefore had a sufficient motive to steal ideas from the Egyptians.
Egypt eventually converted to Islam about 450 a.d., but the Coptic Christians still exist in Egypt as a group never having been influenced by Roman Christianity.

 

[Indica]

didn't feel like reading all 16 pages, but all the prophecies are coming true. christian, muslim, hindu, mayan, native, etc etc etc ..... it's all connected.

until you wed science with spirituality, you won't be able to fully understand either.

the old world is about to be destroyed .... but there is a new world waiting to be settled.

Don't worry, be happy.

 

[buckeyegrad]

And that's my point, the existence of God or the divinity of any given religion cannot be proven. It's frightening to me that so many people in this day and age of "enlightenment" can accept such a profound concept entirely on irrational belief. Every other decision they make in their lives (whether it's who they marry, what house they buy, what job they take, what they believe to be true in the media, etc.) is based on rational thinking and weighing the tangible evidence to help them decide what decision to make and what to believe. But a belief in God is irrational (i.e. based on faith) and none of their critical decision making skills come into play.

You seem to hold as much blind faith in the Enlightment and rationality as those of us who are religious hold in our belief systems. Do you realize that for the past 100 years, philosophy has been almost unified in an a complete rejection of the ideas and claims of the Enlightenment? What was thought to be "true" from a rational standpoint is now only seen as a product of a particular culture at a particular time in history. Even scientific ideas like quantum mechanics and chaos thoery are showing that rationality is an illusion and the universe does not work as such.

To state that belief in God is irrational is to make a judgement void of rationality. It is a statement of belief, not fact, nor deduced from the evidence. You cannot show such belief irrational by your scientific methods, only through ontological statements.

 

[Brewtus]

You seem to hold as much blind faith in the Enlightment and rationality as those of us who are religious hold in our belief systems. Do you realize that for the past 100 years, philosophy has been almost unified in an a complete rejection of the ideas and claims of the Enlightenment? What was thought to be "true" from a rational standpoint is now only seen as a product of a particular culture at a particular time in history. Even scientific ideas like quantum mechanics and chaos thoery are showing that rationality is an illusion and the universe does not work as such.

To state that belief in God is irrational is to make a judgement void of rationality. It is a statement of belief, not fact, nor deduced from the evidence. You cannot show such belief irrational by your scientific methods, only through ontological statements.

I agree with you to a certain extent, that my "world view" is based on belief. But belief differs significantly from faith. My beliefs are based on observations, evidence and facts. My beliefs are also subject to change when new information arises. But faith, by definition, is a strong belief in something without evidence. Faith doesn't require rational thought or logic. Belief in a personal God requires faith as God is outside the realm of scientific inquiry.

I can't think of anything at this moment that I have faith in. I believe many things, but don't have faith in anything. I believe that the Earth revolves around the Sun and the Universe is about 14 billion years old because I've seen evidence for it. I believe that my family loves me by the way they act, what they say and how they behave toward me. Faith opens to door to a multitude of possibilities, all equally plausible and consequently offers nothing of value to me.

 

[buckeyegrad]

I agree with you to a certain extent, that my "world view" is based on belief. But belief differs significantly from faith. My beliefs are based on observations, evidence and facts. My beliefs are also subject to change when new information arises. But faith, by definition, is a strong belief in something without evidence. Faith doesn't require rational thought or logic. Belief in a personal God requires faith as God is outside the realm of scientific inquiry.

I can't think of anything at this moment that I have faith in. I believe many things, but don't have faith in anything. I believe that the Earth revolves around the Sun and the Universe is about 14 billion years old because I've seen evidence for it. I believe that my family loves me by the way they act, what they say and how they behave toward me. Faith opens to door to a multitude of possibilities, all equally plausible and consequently offers nothing of value to me.

I guess my point is that what makes something rational is whether it is consistent within its own framework, which is determined by the ontological beliefs (i.e. faith) of the framework. Scientific inquiry does not guarantee rationality, nor is it the sole possessor or arbitrator of it. It is only one framework by which to explore truth (one that I would argue is horribly flawed) and it has its own measures of rationality within itself, but those measures cannot be extrapolated unto other frameworks that operate with different definitions and assumptions, but remain internally consist (i.e. rational).

 

[Brewtus]

I guess my point is that what makes something rational is whether it is consistent within its own framework, which is determined by the ontological beliefs (i.e. faith) of the framework. Scientific inquiry does not guarantee rationality, nor is it the sole possessor or arbitrator of it. It is only one framework by which to explore truth (one that I would argue is horribly flawed) and it has its own measures of rationality within itself, but those measures cannot be extrapolated unto other frameworks that operate with different definitions and assumptions, but remain internally consist (i.e. rational).

I disagree, all frameworks of inquiry are not equal. If the goal is to seek truth and knowledge of the Universe then rational thought, logic and the scientific method are superior to methods that rely on holy books, internal reflection and faith. Perhaps it's not possible for humans to grasp the realities and intricacies of the universe. Perhaps nature is just too complex for our tiny brains to comprehend, but the scientific method is still our best tool as it's self-correcting and is not flawed by the biases of culture and religion. Scientists from every culture, country and region of the world can and do use the same method, because it has been proven to work.

How does the spiritual or religious method determine truth? If I were to ask a follower from 10 different religions around the world about the origin of humans, I'd likely get 10 different answers - all equally plausible under the tenants and requirements of faith. If I asked 10 different people who use the scientific method around the world the same question, I'd get the same answer - regardless of their cultural and religious backgrounds.

 

[buckeyegrad]

I disagree, all frameworks of inquiry are not equal. If the goal is to seek truth and knowledge of the Universe then rational thought, logic and the scientific method are superior to methods that rely on holy books, internal reflection and faith. Perhaps it's not possible for humans to grasp the realities and intricacies of the universe. Perhaps nature is just too complex for our tiny brains to comprehend, but the scientific method is still our best tool as it's self-correcting and is not flawed by the biases of culture and religion. Scientists from every culture, country and region of the world can and do use the same method, because it has been proven to work.

Scientifically prove this to me. Show me through the scientific method that it is superior to other frameworks. This is an assumption on your part. An ontological statement that cannot be proven. This is where your faith lies. You can deny you have faith, but you really do. You can also claim the scientific method is free from culture, but that is flat out incorrect. As I stated, philosophy for the last 100 years is almost universally united in showing that the scientific method and empericism is a product of one particular culture: specifically Eurocentric imperialism.