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Notre Dame (football only discussion)

I was watching SportsCenter for a change tonight, to see what they'd say about the USC story. I didn't learn much about the Bush story, but they did have a feature on Tommy Zbikowski being a boxer - who knew??
 
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Dispatch

MAMA?S BOY
Tough love helped prepare Dublin native Brady Quinn for the challenge of being Notre Dame quarterback

Friday, September 15, 2006

Rob Oller
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

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Robin Quinn learned to deal with losses in her life, an ability she passed on to her children.
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Only the mop of hair looks flustered. Under it, Brady Quinn remains the level quarterback shaped by a mother as tender as commercial-grade sandpaper.
Many athlete-parent relationships follow a pattern of demanding father and doting mother. Brady and his mother, Robin, put that pattern to death. Ty Quinn taught his son never to settle; Robin told him to settle down.
Whenever Brady whined, Robin went to work.
When a young Brady went to pieces watching a documentary about a boy who died after being hit in the chest by a baseball, it was mom who worked him through it to pitch again.
And it was Robin who stood silent when a 6-year-old Brady looked up during a wrestling match and croaked, "Mom, he?s trying to cut off my air supply," as an opponent put him in a headlock.
"He wanted to quit after that. I told him that Quinns aren?t quitters and that he had to finish the season," she said. "I?m not one to pass out warm and fuzzies to my kids. I?m not diplomatic, but I am honest."
The brutal honesty honed Brady, from uptight Dublin adolescent into more stable starting quarterback at Notre Dame. As the No. 2 Fighting Irish prepare to play host to Michigan on Saturday, Quinn qualifies as one of the most emotionally-level players to set foot on the field, steeled by a lifetime of constructive criticism rather than coddling.
As a quarterback at Dublin Coffman, Quinn would mutter after throwing an interception, only to catch Robin?s stern expression as he left the field.
"It was like, ?Whew, there?s my mom,? " Robin said, recalling Brady?s shivering reaction.
Robin?s tough love hardened him for what was to come: two difficult seasons of physical punishment and mental stress as a freshman and sophomore starter at Notre Dame, followed by the past two years of having to stomach the stinging comments cast his way by coach Charlie Weis.
"I?m looking for his best material now," Quinn said of Weis? wisecracks. "I feel I can always take it. My mom is someone who has always been pretty critical of me, more than anyone else when I was growing up, so it?s been kind of easy for me to, I guess, take criticism from coach Weis."
Instead of melting under such criticism, the perfectionist son, a chip off the perfectionist mother, has thrived by turning Weis? negatives into positives. It?s not only Brady?s physical tools that have enabled him to become a leading Heisman Trophy candidate, but also his ability to remain cool under pressure. He neither gets too high nor sinks too low, whether throwing for 287 yards and three touchdowns in a 41-17 win against Penn State last week or struggling with 246 yards without a TD in a 14-10 win over Georgia Tech the week before.
"I like to be focused, calm and even-keeled as far as my emotions," he said in a teleconference Wednesday from South Bend, Ind. "Take the good and bad the same."
Two days earlier and 275 miles away in a Sawmill Road coffee shop, the tree sounded a lot like the apple that has not fallen far from it: "I?m going to be 50," Robin Quinn said. "You get to the point where you?ve seen a lot in life and is it worth getting yourself all worked up about? "
Not if you are mother and son Quinn, who are cut from the same emotional cloth ? burlap.
Robin never cries after ND wins and losses. Brady seldom smiles during games. Never has, although his mother senses that he enjoys himself more than he used to.
"I think growing up maybe I was too serious," he said. "At the same time, that seriousness is necessary when you?re playing (quarterback)."
Robin thinks her son is a bit obsessive-compulsive; Brady counters that it takes one to know one.
"I?m sure (mom) is pretty uptight like that, too," he said.
But uptight should not be confused with tyrant.
Yes, Robin still lives by the philosophy that "it will feel better when it quits hurting," which was instilled in her by her father, Scott Slates, who used to chuckle when his daughter threw up during high school track practice in rural Carrollton, Ohio.
But the tough-love approach is heavier on love than tough. Underneath the armor exterior is a mother, wife and family confidant who is always available to listen ? and talk.
"I still call home and talk about different things with her, at least a couple times a week. She likes to talk, too, but I don?t have the hours for that," said Brady, flashing the trademark Quinn wit.
"He talks to me because he wants the honest opinion," Robin said. "There can be reasoning, but don?t make excuses."
The discussions date to when mother drove son around Ohio to play in baseball tournaments. They would talk school, girls, sports and faith, a bulwark of the Quinn family.
"My kids get that life isn?t perfect, that God has a plan for you and there are going to be good times and bad times and it?s how you get through it that matters," she said.
Brady, his younger sister Kelly and older sister Laura, who recently married former Ohio State linebacker A.J. Hawk, come by their compassion honestly.
"The principle of my family goes way back," Robin said, explaining that her father turned down college scholarship offers to take care of his father, who suffered from multiple sclerosis.
"I was 9 years old and looking at bedsores on my grandpa?s body. I grew up around a lot of misfortune," she said.
Robin also has experienced a lot of pain. Her father died in a car crash in 1991 at age 55. When she was 20, in 1977, her first husband suffered a brain aneurysm and died seven weeks later. In the 1990s, she and Ty lost five close relatives within a five-year period.
There is sadness but no bitterness over those losses, no waving an angry fist at God, no wallowing in pity or whining about the unfairness of it all. There is only the placing of one foot in front of the other and the expectation that our abilities should intersect with a divine plan.
It?s why Robin Quinn does not tolerate taking the easy way and why every week she writes a note to Brady that contains a Bible verse and her own personal encouragement.
"I remind him that this is by design and that you work to perfect the talent that has been God-given to you," she said.
And if anyone misses the mark? Don?t come crying to Robin Quinn. She doesn?t want to hear it.
But her son does.
"When Brady first left for college, he wrote me the sweetest e-mail," she said. "He commented that ?Sometimes you give me a hard time, but I love you and think you helped prepare me for what my life is about.? "
[email protected]
 
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As we all previously new, the ND DB's havent gotten any faster than last year and get eaten alive by speed. You can't fix slow.

I saw a clip where Quinn was sitting on the bench and shaking his head. I loved it!

:osu:
 
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Well, ulukinatme is sharing his own special form of whining and support for his TSUN buddies...

ulukinatme said:
Congrats mgb, definitly was a quality win. We played crummy, and your team played well and with a purpose! Both teams didn't look like the same ones that met in Ann Arbor last year, wow

Personally, I hope Michigan wins all the rest of their games for a couple reasons...first, it makes this loss look not as horrible as it really was, so it won't hurt as bad. 2nd, if anyone has a chance from this point forward to silence the OSU convicts, its Michigan. If it came down to Michigan or OSU going to a title game...I'm just hoping all that bad OSU karma costs them the game. They've been pretty cocky since January after their Fiesta win, and months later they still can't be good sports about it. http://www.notredamefans.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=12025

Come back from the darkside, ulukinatme. All we did is to say that your football team didn't deserve its ranking, that you would lose to TSUN, and that Quinn wasn't Heisman quality.

Discuss!
 
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In respect of the meltdown, most of the posters at both Notre Dame sites seem to be in denial ("this is just one game", "we can overcome this easy")...

smokin_joe said:
If we played nine more times this year, we'd win five of them. This was Quinn's worst game ever and Henne's best. We never turn the ball over like this, and if we hadn't early on, the whole complexion of the game would have been different. Lambert was burned twice, but only because the passes were perfect. We did okay against the run. We just lost our national championship and Heisman because of a really bad day. Happens every year to four or five top notch programs, and we'll still make the BCS. How's that for an upbeat post to start the new board? http://www.uhnd.com/board/forum.cgi?message&387552

...but they also have at least one balanced and emotionally intelligent poster over at NotreDameFans.com who is capable of taking an objective step back...

ndgckc said:
This was a collapse of the complete team in just about every phase. As good as ND was against PSU last week, they were abysmal today. I don't share the optimism after watching what I saw today about running the table. My biggest concern is the impression made on some very blue chip recruits who were at that game, e.g., Barksdale who is deciding between ND and Michigan, if memory serves me right. The depth needed is still not there on both sides of the ball, especially on D where the nightmare probs of last year resurfaced, which is why recruiting is so important! One thing, I think, that is sorely needed is a power running back who is fast and can take it to the house to take the pressure off of the passing game. When you can't run, and the opposition knows it, your passing game is behind the 8-ball! Frankly, I had to turn this game off late, as it was too painful to watch anymore. My sons and I can't recall a more awful first half of football that Notre Dame has played in recent years, period!

Sometimes, I get the feeling that ND is too much of a finesse passing team under CW and needs to have the aforementioned power running game to compliment it. You can get away with that against mediocre competition, but not against the big boys.

That's about it for right now.

Let's give Michigan credit. They took it to Notre Dame BIG TIME in ND's house. The spectre of ND stadium being friendly to opponents has once again reared its ugly head! http://www.notredamefans.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=12023

I thought that was a very balanced post by someone who is a big ND fan.
 
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Link

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September 17, 2006

bob kravitz
Honeymoon's over for Weis; back to work
SOUTH BEND, Ind.
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There is a haunting symmetry to Notre Dame's stunning and downright embarrassing demolition Saturday at the hands of Michigan.
Tyrone Willingham, whom Irish fans can no longer blame for their woes, began his career 11-3.
Charlie Weis, who we've prematurely deified in the rush to add him to the pantheon of Rockne and Holtz, began his career 11-3.
Willingham, the subject of a book called "Return to Glory'' after his first season, saw his team get trashed, 38-0, by Michigan in the 15th game of his tenure.
Weis, who is the hero of a book titled "The New Gold Standard,'' got humbled by Michigan, shattering Notre Dame's national-title aspirations and Brady Quinn's Heisman candidacy before they ever really started.
Willingham's team fell completely apart after that Michigan loss, losing 12 of the coach's last 22 games as the Irish's would-be savior.
And Weis?
What happens now?
How long before the firecharlie weis.com Web site is up and running?
What happened here Saturday was, the honeymoon ended. The clock on the Weis Era officially began to tick. The aura that's surrounded the Notre Dame coach -- he's an offensive genius and he will dazzle his opponents with his X's and O's -- dispersed like a morning fog.
"The first thing is I have to let the team know I'm the first guy to take responsibility for the loss,'' Weis said after the game. "It's easy from where you sit to say, 'Well, Quinn had three interceptions, a fumble for a touchdown, that's 24 points.' We can go right down the line. I've got the numbers in my head. But the bottom line was, the team wasn't ready to go, and whose responsibility was that? It's just mine."
By falling on the sword with such gusto, Weis may have short-circuited a lot of the criticism from people who view him as arrogant and aloof, like somebody who acts like he invented offensive football. Make no mistake: There are important people up here who don't like Weis' gruff, Jersey Guy personal style. Those critics can be kept at bay with a spotless record, with double-digit victories and bowl victories. But losses like this give his detractors their first round of ammunition.
Now, will the same grisly fate befall Weis that doomed Willingham?
I doubt it.
Over time, he will show that he's in a different league than Bob Davie and Willingham -- those Super Bowl rings make a persuasive argument -- and he's going to make Notre Dame look smart for tying him up until 2015.
This, though, ranks as the first real test, the first true crisis of the Weis Era. Don't look at this in a vacuum. The Irish have been throttled twice in their last four games -- losing badly to Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl and now Michigan -- and needed a couple of breaks to beat Georgia Tech in the season open. They're a very ordinary 5-3 at home under Weis. Numbers don't lie.
This, though, is where we find out how special a coach Weis can be. Now he's got to pick up the pieces and resuscitate the season against a Michigan State team that's owned the Irish.
"I said to (the Notre Dame) players in (the locker room), I said we're not sulking," Weis said. "We're giving just due to our opponent. We're going to come in tomorrow, we're going to go over this tape and we're going to get ready to work Tuesday against Michigan State. Because you want the same thing happening again? Just go lay another egg? Go up to East Lansing, the same thing will happen to you all over again.
"I'll start off with me, though. I'm going to have to do a better job myself."
Once again, we fell for it. The Notre-Dame-is-back malarkey. The Irish-are-national-title-bound nonsense. I bought it. Maybe you bought it. How could you avoid it after watching how Notre Dame dismantled Penn State last week?
At least one Indianapolis columnist who shall remain nameless ended an ode to Notre Dame's greatness last week by scribbling the following:
"It's becoming clear, and it will be even clearer after the Irish dispense with Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue. They're worthy of the hype."
Ugggghhh.
Before last year's Michigan game, Weis said, "I hate the Michigan fight song'' -- which, for the record, is "Hail to the Victors." Well, the way the Wolverines toyed with and scored on the Irish on Saturday, Weis was forced to listen to what must have sounded like a broken record.
The Irish couldn't run (four total yards) and couldn't stop either the run or the deep pass, the secondary looking a whole lot like the group that got worked in the Fiesta Bowl. Let's just speak the truth: Notre Dame simply isn't a special football program any more. Hasn't been for a long time.
"Let's face it, you lose 47-21, you deserve to be criticized," Weis said. "You deserve to pick up the newspaper the next day and (read), 'What the heck happened?' You deserve that, OK? On the flip side of that, you got a team who just came in that kicked your butt pretty good. They deserve it.''
Ultimately, you've got to give a lot of credit to Michigan and specifically, quarterback Chad Henne, who recovered after having his first pass intercepted. Michigan had lost their last six road season openers and hadn't won in South Bend since 1994. And Henne was undressed the previous two times he played against the Irish.
Henne outplays Quinn.
Lloyd Carr outcoaches Weis.
Who could have imagined?
 
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Dispatch

NO. 11 MICHIGAN 47 NO. 2 NOTRE DAME 21
Irish suffer Big Blue beating
Michigan puts dent in QB Quinn?s Heisman hopes

Sunday, September 17, 2006

Todd Jones
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

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MICHAEL CONROY ASSOCIATED PRESS Michigan?s LaMarr Woodley straight-arms Notre Dame tight end John Carlson as he returns a fumble 54 yards for a touchdown.
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MICHAEL CONROY ASSOCIATED PRESS Michigan receiver Mario Manningham catches a 20-yard touchdown pass.


SOUTH BEND, Ind. ? Decades have proven that one game here, where lore is thick and ghosts swirl, can alter football reputations.
Nothing of historic permanence transpired yesterday, but the lopsided nature of the nationally televised game at least temporarily revised Michigan?s recent reputation and severely bruised Notre Dame?s.
Michigan, proven soft in recent years by rivals, awoke in ferocious fashion and overwhelmed Notre Dame 47-21 to bring a respite to the criticism that has dogged coach Lloyd Carr.
Only praise has previously been heaped on second-year Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis, but as evening fell on emptied Notre Dame Stadium, the offensive expert was bared for questions after the Fighting Irish (2-1) had managed just 35 total yards when Michigan led 34-7 with 2:30 left in the first half.
"There?s plenty of people to blame, and I?ll start with me," said Weis, now possessing the same record after 15 games (11-4) as his predecessor, Tyrone Willingham, who also lost his 15 th game, 38-0 to Michigan in 2003.
Brady Quinn of Dublin had his own reputation smothered by a hard-hitting Michigan defense. The Heisman Trophy chances of the Notre Dame quarterback were severely damaged by three interceptions, a lost fumble and erratic throws under pressure.
Quinn wasn?t alone in his struggles. Notre Dame had 4 yards rushing on 17 attempts, and the Irish weren?t much better in other phases of football. They committed 11 penalties, had five turnovers and their secondary proved as porous as Ohio State discovered it to be in January while hanging 34 points and 617 yards on them in a Fiesta Bowl win.
The day belonged to No. 11 Michigan (3-0) from the game?s first possession when linebacker Prescott Burgess intercepted Quinn (as he would again in the second half) and returned it 31 yards for a touchdown. All drama evaporated in a 17-minute span, beginning late in the first quarter, in which the Wolverines rolled to 27 unanswered points to go up 34-7.
A 34-14 halftime lead for Michigan represented the most points an opponent scored in the first half in Notre Dame Stadium since Purdue put up 45 in a 51-19 win in 1960.
Michigan?s 7-5 record last season was its worst in 21 years, and the Wolverines came here yesterday, a place where they haven?t won since 1994, to play a Notre Dame team that had defeated them in three of their past four annual meetings.
"We knew we had to come out here and prove ourselves," said Wolverines tailback Mike Hart, who rushed for 124 yards and a score. "That made us play a lot harder. We?re back."
Chad Henne showed he must be reckoned with this Big Ten season. After passing little in Michigan?s first two games, the junior quarterback threw for 220 yards and three touchdowns, each to receiver Mario Manningham in the first half.
"Anybody who doubts him as a quarterback doesn?t know anything about quarterback play," Carr said. "He was outstanding."
Quinn, on this day, was not. Harassed and hit hard, he threw for three touchdowns but completed just 24 of 48 pass attempts for 234 yards. All but 14 of those yards came after Notre Dame fell behind by 27 points in the game?s first 28 minutes.
"We knew if we came at him and put pressure on him, sometimes he?d make bad decisions," Michigan defensive end LaMarr Woodley said.
The win should take some pressure off Carr, who has been maligned for, among other things, losing four of his five games against Ohio State coach Jim Tressel.
"When you can win against a rival like that, believe me, it?s special, because it?s hard," Carr said.
[email protected]
 
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SB Tribune

Weis gets taste of own medicine

COMMENTARY

JASON KELLY

SOUTH BEND -- Lloyd Carr's getaway from Notre Dame Stadium began with a police escort.

A state trooper accompanied him as he trotted off the field through the ranks of the Notre Dame marching band that formed around him during his postgame television interview.

He committed his crime in broad daylight in front of 80,795 witnesses, but he left the scene with law enforcement clearing a path. Carr slipped out of town with a bus full of accomplices and crossed state lines under cover of darkness, as untouchable as Mario Manningham in the Irish secondary.

There were three felony arrests Saturday on charges of stealing and counterfeiting tickets to Michigan's 47-21 throttling of Notre Dame. The most blatant transgression went unpunished -- identity theft, the wanton act of assuming the coaching personality of Charlie Weis, who put up all the resistance of a mall cop in stopping Carr's aggression.

Michigan swarmed on defense, dictated on offense and dug its cleats into Notre Dame's chest to prevent its supine opponent from recovering.

Carr, notorious for the conservative way he has shackled his athletes in losses here, commandeered the Weis approach Saturday with power running and crisp, explosive passing.

Running back Mike Hart softened the interior of the Notre Dame defense and Manningham blistered the edges of a secondary exposed as porous again with four long receptions -- three for touchdowns.

"Mario Manningham is a guy that we feel is going to be awfully difficult for anybody to single cover," Carr said, sounding a little like Weis in the understated,

Jason Kelly

Commentary

but satisfying description of a tactical situation used to his advantage.

It had a deflating effect on a defense that had showed renewed strength early in the season only to revert to last season's most debilitating problems at the worst time.

"We took a beating today," Irish safety Chinedum Ndukwe said.

That extended to the other side of the ball, where Carr cut loose what he called the best defensive line he has coached to harass Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn.

An interception returned for a touchdown on the first drive established a theme. Turnovers stifled drives when general ineffectiveness didn't and as Michigan's avalanche of a lead increased to 34-7 in the first half, hope all but evaporated.

"You try not to think like that, but I think the entire game kind of showed that," running back Darius Walker said after staggering forward for 25 yards on 10 carries. "We got down early and they kept us down."

Michigan's complete performance punished Notre Dame like no opponent -- not even Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl zhas since Weis arrived.

Thoughts of a national championship or a Heisman Trophy for the battered and erratic Quinn disappeared and Weis became the leader of a recovery operation instead. Rescuing a season from one early loss should not be too difficult, but the goals must be adjusted, if not the one-at-a-time approach.

Carr took schematic and psychological pages from the Weis playbook, throwing the ball rather than nursing the clock, going for the throat instead of taking a knee.

Left standing for the first time as a head coach after a trip to South Bend, he made a quick change from his coaching attire into his mild-mannered accountant style, the better to disguise his escape.

Showered and refreshed in a crisp blue shirt and tie, he stood at the podium looking nothing like the embattled coach who entered this season hearing the complaints of agitated fans.

"We've had to deal with all the negative things that surround the football team and a program when things aren't going your way," Carr said, showing no inclination to forget any perceived slights.

Someone wondered how much it meant to him to win at Notre Dame Stadium, how much personal satisfaction he felt to leave this place with a smile instead of his more familiar sour-lemon expression.

"Me?" Carr said, all innocent like, smiling like he just got away with something. In a way he did.

Channeling Charlie Weis, Carr slipped out of South Bend with a win. He may have been an identity thief for one day in Indiana, but because of those brazen actions, he can show his face in Michigan again.
 
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Steve19;609637; said:
Well, ulukinatme is sharing his own special form of whining and support for his TSUN buddies...



Come back from the darkside, ulukinatme. All we did is to say that your football team didn't deserve its ranking, that you would lose to TSUN, and that Quinn wasn't Heisman quality.

Discuss!

:slappy: I can't recall seeing a bigger whiner ever. I suppose we were supposed to say "Notra-Dame" was still the better team even after we reemed them, and that we all wish we could have gone to "Notra Dame" instead of our horribly ineffectual state school. I love it...a new coaching hire gives them visions of never losing another game, and when it becomes obvious they still can't win a significant game with Saint Charlie, they whine about how other fans point that out. :slappy:

Sorry dude...was going to give you credit on the other thread for showing up and being a decent sport about it until I read this other gem...you come over here and be one way, go somewhere else and be another, you're going to get called out.
 
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If Shakespeare Was a Sportwriter

To paraphrase the Scottish Play - apologies for tortured iambic pentameter

Out, out, brief candle!
Nd's Season is but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets its hour upon the stage and then is ranked high no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
 
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sandgk;609904; said:
To paraphrase the Scottish Play - apologies for totured iambic pentameter

Out, out, brief candle!
Nd's Season is but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets its hour upon the stage and then is ranked high no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Nicely done ! i would give you a green thingy if I could :biggrin:

Why are we the only one referenced to convicts. that idiot seems to have forgotten about meechigans BB team
:oh:
 
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sandgk;609904; said:
To paraphrase the Scottish Play - apologies for totured iambic pentameter

Out, out, brief candle!
Nd's Season is but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets its hour upon the stage and then is ranked high no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

:lol:

Beautiful...
 
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mgb has been a pretty respectable and decent poster on NDFans, a hard thing to come by as far as Michigan fans go. I gave him the same congrats I gave the Bucks after the Fiesta Bowl win. I made no excuses for our poor play in either game
Come back from the darkside, ulukinatme. All we did is to say that your football team didn't deserve its ranking, that you would lose to TSUN, and that Quinn wasn't Heisman quality.
I understand that, and all those statements are perfectly valid. Some posters and other Buckeyes I know have been poor sports about the game though, or just toward ND in general, some have gone beyond poor sportsmanship. Some of this stuff I already mentioned in the ND/Michigan thread :wink2:
Sorry dude...was going to give you credit on the other thread for showing up and being a decent sport about it until I read this other gem...you come over here and be one way, go somewhere else and be another, you're going to get called out.
I brought the issue up in a prevous thread, but I don't buy that the media's love affair with ND football should translate to a hatred for the program, or being poor sports about the win in January as previously mentioned. I've heard plenty of crass remarks from Buckeye fans, and your program is above that. At least it should be.
Bucklion, we both know you wouldn't have given me credit either way :)
Overall, the Michigan fans I've talked to in the last few days have been respectable about the win, so how can't I pull for them to bring the upset...however unlikely it may be. Anyway, like I said, it only benefits us anyway for Michigan to win now. You can't say the Buckeyes wouldn't want the same thing. Most wanted a Michigan win over ND to help their own schedule.
 
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