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Next Generation Console News: Xbox One, PS4, Wii U

Buckeye Maniac;2347352; said:
The cloud can still exist without DRM. It just wouldn't be mandatory. There is no reason that people who choose to participate could not still share their games with friends, like MS originally planned, except because MS is being petty.
That is a huge part of the blowback ms is receiving. The twitter trolling about always on, the suggestion to shut up or buy a 360 and now this
Bucknut24;2347351; said:
I had 0 problems with the DRM polices
I didn't mind the dream cast controller. Both of these opinions are outliers and the mainstream opinion was that both stunk and were a big hindrance to sales.
 
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Bucknut24;2347596; said:
this is my last post in this thread because I feel I will be banned soon if I keep going at is

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/53457606850/brutal-honest-thoughts-on-this-whole-debacle

I think this is a pretty good read on MS's complete debacle of getting their info across

I believe this guy gets some points I TRIED to make across better than I did, or ever could
So I was reading his article, but he showed his hand when he started talking about the airlines and luggage fees. The charges for luggage have very little to do with fuel costs and passengers being fatter than in the past. Conversely, they are about driving profit. $3.5 billion in profit for last year alone.

Again, I'm not trying to argue with you about this. I'm actually quite a fan of much of what M$ does. As an IT professional, I earned several M$ certifications when I first started, and they have led me to having a very nice career.

The real point here, is that M$ was trying to make a power play with their roll out (and Sony was too, before they changed their plans after witnessing the backlash towards M$'s announcement). They basically wanted to control their sales.

Let's take a look at how this would happen.

Digital media - With their DRM strategy, they were going to let people "buy" games from them that would be tied to their accounts (much like iTunes). These downloads would not require physical production (disc and packaging), and would cut out any middle men (both of these are cost savers and drive profit). They would presumably only be downloadable from a M$ app store (in which M$ would control how much money each party would receive) and effectively allow M$ to control all download pricing models (hello monopoly!) to their consoles.

Retail - Even the physical media would be different. You would then be "allowed" to "share" something that you "own," but within the new DRM terms and conditions. For instance, I couldn't simply let one of my brothers borrow a game for a week and then let my other brother borrow it for a week. I live within a half mile of each of them, and can currently let them borrow any disc I own (not that we actually share many games, but it's good for illustration). That would all change with the implementation of their big brother (DRM) program.

And, on the back end, only select retailers would be able to buy and resell used games. So why is this important?

First, fewer resellers means that more price fixing can occur among the chosen retailers. This, in turn, would likely diminish the trade-in value of the games. Hey, if you don't like their offer, well that's too bad. You can only get another offer from another chosen reseller, and their offer will be the same. It's not like you'll be able to sell it on craigslist or ebay, unless the buyer would want to join your friend list and wait 30 days for the transaction to complete (curious, did anyone just have an "aha" moment as to why they had a 30 day friend stipulation?).

Second, to be selected by M$ as a reseller, the retailers would then be beholden to M$. They would likely have to pay fees to M$, or at the very least comply with all of M$'s demands, for the right to resell games, which would make used games more expensive. And they would be more prone to having to sell games at M$ approved prices (again, more price fixing opportunities).

And the required internet connection every 24 hours is a complete nanny move. WTF is that all about? I'm not aware of our iPad having to connect to the internet everyday for us to use games and media that we've already downloaded. That is full on big brother mode. Why do we need to check in with M$ every day if we truly own those games?

Simple, like I mentioned before, it's a model that allows you to pay for access to media, not ownership of the media. And if that's the model, then they shouldn't be charging ownership prices for leased items. Of course though, they wanted the other business model because that would allow them to control the "ownership" structure, and ultimately the pricing structure, so they could charge higher prices to drive profit.

So while some people (such as yourself) are disappointed about missing out on certain features, I hope you are able to see the real "business model" they were trying to implement and are now better able to understand why this is such a big win for consumers.

PS. You're not going to be banned in this videogame forum for simply being upset that you will be missing features you were looking forward to. Just remember to be civil and accepting of differing views and you'll be fine.
 
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BrutuStrength;2347654; said:
PS. You're not going to be banned in this videogame forum for simply being upset that you will be missing features you were looking forward to. Just remember to be civil and accepting of differing views and you'll be fine.

Plus us video game section has a small number of viewers/followers. We need to keep all we've got :lol:
 
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Mac;2347659; said:
Plus us video game section has a small number of viewers/followers. We need to keep all we've got :lol:

I've been quite for a while on purpose. I still think this is all very much a developing story. Still thinking that things may continue to change before theses consoles hit the shelves. I happy that MS has pulled the 180 on what was an unimaginably stupid decision. I even wonder if we will see economics classes reference this general story as the perfect example of not researching your own market and forces drastic changes before the markets is ready for them.

But......

After all is said and done I'm wondering if all points will be moot. Who will have more and better games? Which will do more? The hardcore crowd will say they could care less about extras but the "hardcore" isn't the actually market, just a small part. Will cross platform games look and play the same? -likely they will. Price is already in Sony's favor and I can't help but wonder if MS's beloved kinect will be the hidden blessing for Sony, as single moms and a down economy cause the smallest price to be the only factor that matters at the end of the day.

Also, if used game restrictions have changed or been lifted by MS how does that impact game loads. Remember that these disc games were designed to be loaded and then played. So will that part still exist? If so then can manufactures still restrict the number of game installs or the number of consoles that can interact with a single game? I'm, guessing they couldn't but it still seems vague to me.
 
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EasternBuck;2347691; said:
I've been quite for a while on purpose. I still think this is all very much a developing story. Still thinking that things may continue to change before theses consoles hit the shelves. I happy that MS has pulled the 180 on what was an unimaginably stupid decision. I even wonder if we will see economics classes reference this general story as the perfect example of not researching your own market and forces drastic changes before the markets is ready for them.

But......

After all is said and done I'm wondering if all points will be moot. Who will have more and better games? Which will do more? The hardcore crowd will say they could care less about extras but the "hardcore" isn't the actually market, just a small part. Will cross platform games look and play the same? -likely they will. Price is already in Sony's favor and I can't help but wonder if MS's beloved kinect will be the hidden blessing for Sony, as single moms and a down economy cause the smallest price to be the only factor that matters at the end of the day.

Also, if used game restrictions have changed or been lifted by MS how does that impact game loads. Remember that these disc games were designed to be loaded and then played. So will that part still exist? If so then can manufactures still restrict the number of game installs or the number of consoles that can interact with a single game? I'm, guessing they couldn't but it still seems vague to me.

if you buy a disc game it's gonna be like how it is on the 360, you can install it, but you have to have the disc in the trey to play it
 
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EasternBuck;2347691; said:
After all is said and done I'm wondering if all points will be moot. Who will have more and better games? Which will do more? The hardcore crowd will say they could care less about extras but the "hardcore" isn't the actually market, just a small part. Will cross platform games look and play the same? -likely they will. Price is already in Sony's favor and I can't help but wonder if MS's beloved kinect will be the hidden blessing for Sony, as single moms and a down economy cause the smallest price to be the only factor that matters at the end of the day.
Yeah, I don't think games will be noticeably different between the 2 systems, and with all else being equal, I think a lot of it will come down to price point. For myself, I'm going with the PS4 to start. I don't like the higher price and I also don't like the big brother aspect of the
whole XB1+Kinect configuration. I'm sure there are people who won't mind either though, or will be willing to deal with them so that they can play the exclusives for the system. I'm also not a big fan of any exclusives.

EasternBuck;2347691; said:
Also, if used game restrictions have changed or been lifted by MS how does that impact game loads. Remember that these disc games were designed to be loaded and then played. So will that part still exist? If so then can manufactures still restrict the number of game installs or the number of consoles that can interact with a single game? I'm, guessing they couldn't but it still seems vague to me.
Edit: What BN24 said.
 
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Bucknut24;2347698; said:
yea, I wish MS would come out with a xbox without a kinect to make that price point lower..

I don't see them doing it til later though, doubt it will be at launch
Yeah, I'm not sure how integrated it is into the system at this point. I think they were believing that it would be a bigger selling feature than it is. I mean it's impressive technology, but it doesn't seem to be technology that everyone wants, or at least wants to pay $100 for it.

I'm sure they're currently guaging how pre-sells were impacted since their most recent announcement before considering further changes.
 
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BrutuStrength;2347701; said:
Yeah, I'm not sure how integrated it is into the system at this point. I think they were believing that it would be a bigger selling feature than it is. I mean it's impressive technology, but it doesn't seem to be technology that everyone wants, or at least wants to pay $100 for it.

I'm sure they're currently guaging how pre-sells were impacted since their most recent announcement before considering further changes.

yea, which is why IMO, sony went with the lower price

1) They realized not everyone wants the motion controller
2) From what I read around the web, Sony's motion controller sucked huge balls compared to the Kinect

apprently at one of the demo floors at E3 one of the sony reps called it the camera thingy :lol:
 
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Bucknut24;2347716; said:
GameSpot.com ‏@gamespot 29m
Amazon has announced record-breaking preorder numbers for Xbox One and PS4. At peak, customers ordered more than 2,500 consoles per minute.

Did they give a breakdown of the individual numbers? I'm curious to know. A friend who wants both was having difficulty finding a Sony but was thinking he might just go with the Xbox to ensure he'd have a release day shipping.

I'll wait until all bugs and reviews surface.
 
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EasternBuck;2347718; said:
Did they give a breakdown of the individual numbers? I'm curious to know. A friend who wants both was having difficulty finding a Sony but was thinking he might just go with the Xbox to ensure he'd have a release day shipping.

I'll wait until all bugs and reviews surface.

no, no breakdown, don't think Amazon gives out brokendown numbers (at least as of now)

I know right after Xbox announced new policy they opened up more allotment to amazon for pre orderes (the day one bundle was sold out)


abd yea, I was going to wait, but then I just got too excited about the games that I wanted it right when it comes out
 
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Bucknut24;2347716; said:
GameSpot.com ‏@gamespot 29m
Amazon has announced record-breaking preorder numbers for Xbox One and PS4. At peak, customers ordered more than 2,500 consoles per minute.

Not surprising considering how easy it is to pre-order..plus the fact you are under essentially no obligiation to actually buy the console there is no reason not to.

For me it's still about price..if Xbox were more competitive price wise I'd stick with them (probably even if they had never changed the drm bit). I just don't see a $100 difference between these 2 consoles and I think Microsoft is foolish to believe that the kinect is going to be that big of a selling point (they may NOT believe that but at this point they are probably screwed in terms of changing it by release time)
 
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