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Negative Recruiting Tactics and Silent Verbals (split then merged)

I don't find it shocking in the slightest. I also would love to see these postcards and letters he's talking about. Surely he saved them, right?

Are you implying that he is lying?

Do you think ND really didin't keep in contact with him?

You think the staff didn't play the 'ND is superior' card?

Curious for your answers as I know a thing or two about CW and ND's current recruiting approach from a kid who was recruited by ND (but won't be playing in S. Bend).
 
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Yeah the South is pretty bad too. How many comments from recruits have we heard: "Man its cold up there" over the years?

Seriously...this kind of crap goes around a lot of places.

Personally, I think after someone committs a team should perhaps send them a letter letting them know they are still interested, and wait and see if they get contact back, I don't think they should actively try to persuade them...but then again, I don't get paid millions of dollars to win :)
 
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Honestly, I am surprised that Notre Dame was the only school that stayed on top of him after he verballed. With as much pressure as is put on coaches to perform at all levels - recruiting included, I would've thought most coaches would keep on recruits all the way through signing day. You never know when you might say something magical and get a kid to change his mind.

As far as insulting other schools, that is unfortunate.
 
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"They had a piece of paper, and it broke down advantages and disadvantages. It said Notre Dame was televised every weekend, every Saturday. Then they said Clemson has a horrible education."

I see no problem with the first part (selling the advantages of your school), but the second part is out of line. Now, had ND shown him a US News report on college rankings which happened to have ND higher than Clemson, that would be kosher. But insulting a school crosses the line.
 
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Two things...

1) Clemson fans/followers are known for jumping the gun. CJ SPiller/Tim Tebow situation was one example. There is usually some inflation involved...


2) Negative recruiting happens...it is how it is presented though. While some schools will compare the strengths...others highlight weaknesses. I have been told on several occasions that numerous mutual targets between tOSU/ND have been told various degrees of "negativity" concerning Columbus, tOSU football, and tOSU itself. Rumors of course...
 
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I think any negativity an opposing coach could use against Ohio State is starting to fade away. Obviously, we lost at least one recruit (Bemoll) while questions were swirling around our program, but there is no current threat of sanctions, and it will be hard to negatively recruit against a team that whipped Notre Dame just last year and is looking at a preseason slot in the top-5 range, at least. Questions about life in Columbus might work on some recruits' parents, though...if that is the line that is going to be taken.

I agree with the notion of informing a recruit that you'll be interested should he reconsider and letting them be for the time once they give a verbal committment (worked out for us with Lawrence Wilson).
 
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I saw this off of Bucknuts.... And it truely shows that Charlie when it comes down to it has NO class.

Cumbie questions critical comments about Clemson
Clemson Football Notes

BY LARRY WILLIAMS
The Post and Courier


CLEMSON - South Carolina fans who think Notre Dame pulled a fast one on the Gamecocks might be on to something.

Clemson defensive end Jamie Cumbie, an incoming freshman from Morris, Ill., said Fighting Irish coaches used questionable recruiting tactics before and after he committed to the Tigers in June of 2005.

"I'm not going to lie," Cumbie said Tuesday. "The coaches at Notre Dame sent some bad letters ripping Clemson after I committed here."

That claim has particular relevance in the Palmetto State given the recent indecision of Gary Gray, a highly rated cornerback who plays at Richland Northeast in Columbia. Having announced an oral commitment to the Gamecocks in March, Gray has recently re-opened his recruitment and is strongly considering Notre Dame.

Commitments are non-binding until prospects sign letters of intent, and Cumbie said Notre Dame's coaches didn't back off after he orally committed to the Tigers before his senior year.

"They were sending me postcards like a month after I committed," said the 6-7, 255-pound Cumbie, who was a first-team Parade All-American. "The only school that tried to keep recruiting me was Notre Dame. It really didn't bother me."

Cumbie said the Fighting Irish coaching staff, led by second-year head coach Charlie Weis, also engaged in some negative recruiting on his visit to South Bend, Ind.

"They had a piece of paper, and it broke down advantages and disadvantages. It said Notre Dame was televised every weekend, every Saturday. Then they said Clemson has a horrible education."

Personally this makes me sick. The language he uses is one thing, because I cuss up a storm half the time. However when you totally try to ruin a shools reputation by using pointless recruiting techniques that's another. This might work for the time being, but who's going to want to play for some fat ass who trys to eliminate the recruits options himself... I'm sure the recruits can think of the positives and negatives all by themselves... I mean come on Clemson gets to run down a REALLY BIG HILL, what does ND do? Is charlie a good coach? Who knows, he's yet to beat a real team. However, what is becoming evident with Charlie is that he's got a big mouth, he's cocky as hell, he doesn't like to hear bad news (players quiting/recruits going other places), and recently he'll smear anyones good name to get himself ahead of them..
 
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This is the article that started the discussion in this thread.

I agree with previous posters...there are two options 1) outline the positives of your program and 2) outline the negatives of the competition. Most coaches use a mixture of the two and some rely more on the negative aspect.

I have no issue with a coach attempting to differentiate their school or program when it is based on fact. Hearsay, Rumor, or playing off of fear (sanctions) is tacky. With that said, there is enormous pressure from fans and schools for the coaches to produce.
 
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DaBuckMD said:
This is the article that started the discussion in this thread.

I agree with previous posters...there are two options 1) outline the positives of your program and 2) outline the negatives of the competition. Most coaches use a mixture of the two and some rely more on the negative aspect.

I have no issue with a coach attempting to differentiate their school or program when it is based on fact. Hearsay, Rumor, or playing off of fear (sanctions) is tacky. With that said, there is enormous pressure from fans and schools for the coaches to produce.
It was moved here from a different thread.
 
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South Bend Tribune

7/20
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Clemson frosh says ND tactics negative

JEFF CARROLL
Tribune Staff Writer


A Clemson University freshman says Notre Dame engaged in negative football recruiting practices in an attempt to pry him from his verbal commitment.

"I'm not going to lie," Jamie Cumbie was quoted as saying in the Post and Courier newspaper in Charleston, S.C., on Wednesday. "The coaches at Notre Dame sent some bad letters ripping Clemson after I committed here."

Cumbie, a 6-foot-7, 255-pound tight end, was considered one of the top players at his position in the nation a year ago as a senior at Morris (Ill.) High School. A native of South Carolina who had moved to an area about an hour west of Chicago during high school, Cumbie's college selection came down to boyhood favorite Clemson and the Irish.

He finalized his decision early last June.

But Cumbie told the Charleston paper that the Notre Dame coaching staff continued to pursue him afterward, allegedly denigrating Clemson's academics in the process."They had a piece of paper and it broke down advantages and disadvantages," Cumbie is quoted as telling the Post and Courier. "It said Notre Dame was televised every weekend, every Saturday. Then they said Clemson has a horrible education."

Clemson is a public university in Clemson, S.C., with an undergraduate enrollment of about 14,000. U.S. News & World Report ranked the university 34th out of 162 public doctoral-granting universities in its 2006 ranking of United States colleges.

As far as South Carolina native Cumbie goes, his high school coach at Morris, George Dergo, said he did not witness any of the negative recruiting that Cumbie has reported.

"I did catch wind that Notre Dame was talking up their educational values and that they are a top-notch school educationally as well as in football," Dergo said. "Maybe Jamie was misunderstanding what they were saying when they were talking up themselves rather than talking down Clemson.

"Jamie's a pretty good guy. I don't think he'd go out on a limb and rip on Notre Dame or anybody else. I've never known Jamie to do that in the two or three years we had him here."I know Notre Dame was promoting their program and how their school is compared to a lot of the other schools in the area and the nation. They boast on good academics just like all schools would."

Notre Dame already has some South Carolinians on edge this week after vaunted cornerback prospect Gary Gray backed away from his verbal commitment from the University of South Carolina and said he wants to give Notre Dame a longer look.

That angered some Gamecock fans, convinced Notre Dame was being unethical in pursuing Gray, even before Cumbie's comments.

Oral commitments are non-binding, so Notre Dame is not being accused of violating any NCAA recruiting rules. However, the sanctity of verbal commitments and the ethics of recruiting an athlete who has already pledged himself to another school is a hot topic among college coaches.

Cumbie told the Charleston newspaper that Notre Dame was the only school that continued to recruit him after his Clemson verbal commitment."They were sending me postcards like a month after I committed," Cumbie reportedly said. "The only school that tried to keep recruiting me was Notre Dame. It didn't really bother me."

Contacted Tuesday evening at about 5 p.m., a spokesperson at Notre Dame's

office of sports information said only head coach Charlie Weis could comment on Cumbie's accusations. Weis is currently out of the office and ND sports information was unable to track him down for a statement before Tribune deadlines Wednesday evening.

A contact number the Tribune had for Cumbie's parents in Morris, Ill., was no longer in service.

But Dergo said he never heard from Notre Dame after Cumbie committed to Clemson."I don't think they were trying to recruit him after he verballed, not to my knowledge," Dergo said. "Maybe it takes word to get around after a kid commits. I talked to Charlie Weis and he seemed like a standup guy and he knows the ropes. I wouldn't see him doing that."

Last season, Notre Dame recruiting coordinator Rob Ianello, also the Irish's wide receivers coach, was asked about the concept of negative recruiting by the Tribune publication Irish Sports Report. Ianello told ISR that doing things like comparing future depth charts at a player's position doesn't constitute "negative recruiting."

"If you're going to go ahead and do some things that aren't quite factual, then that's negative," Ianello said.

The use of academics in that style of recruiting was addressed in the piece, but only in terms of schools potentially using Notre Dame's notoriously tough academics against it in recruiting battles.
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