NCAA punishes USC - Reggie Bush, OJ Mayo, Dwayne Jarrett, Joe McKnight investigation

[methomps]

And the fact that he "resigned before the investigation got to him" likely spared FSU far more serious penalties than they received. FSU breathed a sigh of relief when he refused to cooperate. Saying that "FSU tried to get him to cooperate" may be factually true. I'm sure there is a letter somewhere with an FSU logo asking him to testify. But if he had, and his employe is to be believed, he would have had to address charges that he ordered the academic counselors to give answers to athletes and make sure that they stayed eligible. The assumption is that it came from "pray for a misdemeanor" "Warsaw Rules" Bowden and his staff. His fortuitous absence was a Godsend for the Noles.

That whole self serving set of circumstances is what I was talking about. And yet FSU was found to have "cooperated", even though the first self investigation by FSU did not find any wrongdoping by the football team, and even though FSU had to keep sending new revisions/submissions of their story to the NCAA.

All I am saying is that - me, personally - places less credibility on that finding by the NCAA when they can also apply it to that horse abortion of an FSU fact situation. Does not mean USC did anything wrong by application, but it does not mean that they were forthcoming either, at least not soley by virtue of a finding of "cooperation".

Then I suppose it's a good thing USC didn't part ways with McNair a couple years ago. Lord knows that would've been interpreted as removing him from NCAA jurisdiction.

Of course, there are regional subtleties in the definition of cooperation. FSU, being in the South, was considered A- compliant simply by virtue of not misleading NCAA investigators as to the street address of the athletics department.

 

[jwinslow]

Of course, there are regional subtleties in the definition of cooperation.

Which seems to be the source of our disagreement.

Who is getting the blame for Joe McKnight?

 

[methomps]

Which seems to be the source of our disagreement.

Who is getting the blame for Joe McKnight?

I would say the source is partisan, not regional.

McKnight happened after the notice of allegations, so I don't believe it was part of the hearing/report. What happens with it depends on whether it was secondary, major, or not a violation.

 

[jwinslow]

I would say the source is partisan, not regional.

true.

McKnight happened after the notice of allegations, so I don't believe it was part of the hearing/report. What happens with it depends on whether it was secondary, major, or not a violation.

It was more of a generic question.

I'm curious who is being blamed for McKnight, given that USC is arguing that there should be a wall betwen the football program and Bush (unrelated party, no staff knew his car/parent's housing), Mayo. OTOH, they aren't claiming ignorance over Leinart but rather mistaken interpretations.

It makes it harder to paint Reggie as an isolated and outside situation with McKnight's suspension.

Most programs have star players with questionable rides that coaches don't ask questions about (including my team, obviously). Everyone kept working at Oklahoma's infamous car dealership after Peterson was linked to a shady vehicle. Over half of the team was still employed there years later when Bomar & his center got busted. I believe the NCAA found them compliant after the second scandal broke and they banned players from working there. To anyone but sooner fans, it seems pretty obvious that they should have known something after the Peterson incident. Most just don't want to know, whether it is not asking or flat out ignoring.

 

[methomps]

true.It was more of a generic question.

I'm curious who is being blamed for McKnight, given that USC is arguing that there should be a wall betwen the football program and Bush (unrelated party, no staff knew his car/parent's housing), Mayo. OTOH, they aren't claiming ignorance over Leinart but rather mistaken interpretations.

It makes it harder to paint Reggie as an isolated and outside situation with McKnight's suspension.

Most programs have star players with questionable rides that coaches don't ask questions about (including my team, obviously). Everyone kept working at Oklahoma's infamous car dealership after Peterson was linked to a shady vehicle. Over half of the team was still employed there years later when Bomar & his center got busted. I believe the NCAA found them compliant after the second scandal broke and they banned players from working there. To anyone but sooner fans, it seems pretty obvious that they should have known something after the Peterson incident. Most just don't want to know, whether it is not asking or flat out ignoring.

If you're asking if I have any inside info on who is being blamed, then no. I imagine the candidates are the staff and compliance, but not a lot has been reported.

 

[Taosman]

Some people have said jeffcat was "compliant" also!

 

[methomps]

Well some posters have longer rap sheets than others.

 

[MaxBuck]

The consistent response by USC athletic staffers (including Carroll) is to sneer at the NCAA and whine about how they've been mistreated by that institution.

If I were on the infractions committee, I'd be strongly tempted to double the penalty as a reminder that remorse is the only appropriate response to conviction (even as the convict prepares his appeals).

 

[Gatorubet]

Then I suppose it's a good thing USC didn't part ways with McNair a couple years ago. Lord knows that would've been interpreted as removing him from NCAA jurisdiction.

Of course, there are regional subtleties in the definition of cooperation. FSU, being in the South, was considered A- compliant simply by virtue of not misleading NCAA investigators as to the street address of the athletics department.

You have to give them street addreses? Nazis!

Fight On Methomps.

 

[LightningRod]

Carroll's rules violation could hurt USC

Former USC football coach Pete Carroll shows his game face in denouncing the NCAA's penalties against the school, contending they are too harsh because he and other administrators never knew that star athletes such as Reggie Bush had violated the rules.

But Carroll has been shy about mentioning that the NCAA found his quiet hiring of an extra coach, a big name from the NFL, was a major violation. The association also said that Carroll did not clear the hire with USC's compliance office, a finding that contradicts what he told The Times last year.

Now, as USC presses an appeal of the heavy sanctions the association imposed, Carroll's culpability could diminish the school's prospects of persuading the NCAA to ease the punishment, experts say.

"That's going to hurt USC on its appeal," said Michael Buckner, a Florida attorney and Trojan alumnus who specializes in sports law. "There are major rule violations found against not only his student athletes but against his coaching staff and a decision he made."

The decision, as The Times reported last July, was to hire Pete Rodriguez, a former NFL special teams guru, in violation of the association's cap on coaches. It gave USC "more than a limited competitive advantage" over other schools, the NCAA found. Carroll did not list Rodriguez on the coaches roster while he served as a "consultant" for the Trojan kicking squads during the entire 2008 regular season.

In its June report on the violations, the NCAA says USC's compliance office learned of Carroll's arrangement with Rodriguez only when an unidentified school complained about it in February 2009.

Carroll said last year that he could not give a "chronology" of his dealings with the compliance office, but "whenever we do anything, we go through all of the channels to figure out whether we can do it ? whether it's OK, and we did that...."

"We've tried to do this exactly the right way ? compliance, all of that stuff, to the letter."

The decision on the Rodriguez matter reinforced the NCAA's broader conclusion that USC demonstrated a "lack of institutional control" over its athletics department.

Among the most serious violations the NCAA found were payments of thousands of dollars in cash and other benefits to Bush and his family by would-be sports marketers. In addition, the NCAA said that former running backs coach Todd McNair knew or should have known about the violations involving Bush and that he misled the association's enforcement staff.

cont'd

 

[sammyjenkis]

Carroll's rules violation could hurt USC

cont'd

[methomps]
Clearly this was just an isolated incident of an individual acting on his own and the school's administration had no way of knowing. Is the school supposed to keep track of everyone on its payroll? Furthermore, NCAA bylaws 155 and 156,2 clearly indicate that kickers have no bearing on the outcome of any game of football.
[/methomps]

 

[Steve19]

And how would public proclamations from SC be received on this board? Do we have any reason to believe it wouldn't be met with rolling eyes and the word "public posturing"?

NCAA punishes USC? Oh see USC didn't cooperate
NCAA says USC cooperated? Oh that just means they met the minimum.
SC makes public plea for Bush/Michaels to cooperate? [You can fill in the blank but we know it wouldn't be "wow USC is really trying to get to the bottom of this"]

SC convinced Bush to sit down with the NCAA. And Bush did so. And when Bush didn't provide the documents he said he would, USC disassociated him.

And I don't know how any of the settlements helped USC. The NCAA found that Bush took money. In fact, the Bush-Lake settlement happened the night before Lake was to be deposed by Bush's lawyers. Thus, the settlement prevented the one opportunity for Lake to face adverse questioning.

Thanks Reggie.

Actually, I think if USC had called for Bush to cooperate fully and release people from confidentiality agreements, their standing among fans would be much higher than it is today.

I guess that question that arises is, if something of value to Bush were likely to emerge when Lake was to be grilled by Bush lawyers, then settle the night before? Why not wait a day? All indications were that it would have been very damaging to Bush and USC.

Granted, USC appears to be taking formal steps now to verify student housing (link) but it doesn't sound like they are asking student athletes to provide information that would allow them to track possible payments to parents. I don't know if Ohio State collects this type of information either, but it would seem to be very necessary in this day and age.

 

[methomps]

Actually, I think if USC had called for Bush to cooperate fully and release people from confidentiality agreements, their standing among fans would be much higher than it is today.

I guess that question that arises is, if something of value to Bush were likely to emerge when Lake was to be grilled by Bush lawyers, then settle the night before? Why not wait a day? All indications were that it would have been very damaging to Bush and USC.

Granted, USC appears to be taking formal steps now to verify student housing (link) but it doesn't sound like they are asking student athletes to provide information that would allow them to track possible payments to parents. I don't know if Ohio State collects this type of information either, but it would seem to be very necessary in this day and age.

We are left to disagree. Fans are partisan. It's the way of the intertubes.

A deposition is not going to be damaging to anybody but the deposed party. The NCAA already had Lake's story, given in a non-hostile interview. Lake already had to misrepresent his claim in court to avoid California's athlete-agents law, so his deposition would have been mildly uncomfortable at best and a train wreck at worst.

And if we don't know what the settlement offer was, and what the discussions of a settlement offer after Lake's deposition would be, how do we know who had the desire to settle at that time as compared to right before Bush's depo? We can presume that if Lake does well at the depo, the price goes up. If he does poorly, the price goes down. But if we don't know the settlement #, then we don't know how the parties perceived their positions. A $100k settlement is vastly different than a $300k settlement.

How is a university supposed to track payments to parents? You think universities, especially public ones, want to get into that arena? Compliance offices would have to double in size and for what payoff? How do you track cash payments, bank accounts, etc? Dad just received a $10k payment. Are you going to call him in to account for that?

[methomps]
Clearly this was just an isolated incident of an individual acting on his own and the school's administration had no way of knowing. Is the school supposed to keep track of everyone on its payroll? Furthermore, NCAA bylaws 155 and 156,2 clearly indicate that kickers have no bearing on the outcome of any game of football.
[/methomps]

Actually, this is all on Pete Carroll. He thought he understood the rules but he should've checked. I disagree with the article's framing, though. This wasn't a case of hiring a coach, slapping a consultant label on him, and then sending him off to practice. He was hired as a special teams consultant.

Carroll thought the only restriction was that he couldn't interact with players. He was wrong. Another restriction is that the consultant can't review the actual team's gamefilm. Had the consultant simply taught the staff special teams principles, it would've been fine. But since the consultant used gameflim in his preparation and presentation to the staff, it crossed the line.

 

[osugrad21]

ESPN

Every USC player to show compliance


By Pedro Moura
Special to ESPNLosAngeles.com



Compliance meeting notices are posted in several places in and near Heritage Hall.

Every University of Southern Califonia football player must meet with school compliance officials by the end of next week, in what looks to be the school's latest effort to curtail possible NCAA-outlawed activities for its student-athletes.
A notice posted in multiple locations around USC athletics headquarters Heritage Hall reminds players to bring current copies of their housing lease, car-related data and summer and academic year employment information to the meetings.
The first of the meetings -- for wide receivers, tight ends and offensive linemen -- was scheduled for Tuesday morning in the Heritage Hall auditorium. Defensive linemen and quarterbacks will meet with compliance officials Thursday morning.
The meetings will continue until July 22.

 

[bigbluebazooka]

ESPN

Every USC player to show compliance


By Pedro Moura
Special to ESPNLosAngeles.com



Compliance meeting notices are posted in several places in and near Heritage Hall.

LOL I saw that on espn. I think USC will still be good for a couple years but when those losses of schollies kick in is when it really hurts.