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My views on striking other people... Can they be reconciled?

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Mike80 said:
Funny thing - I actually had to give my son a whack on the butt earlier today. His sister was reading a book on the floor and he decided to do this kamikaze dive knee first towards the middle of her back after I had explicitly told him not to do so.

I wasn't even angry about it, but he did seem to not care about his safety or his sister's, and he got it for that.
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For me, that is the justification for spanking. There are lessons kids must learn in order to avoid harm to themselves and others, or otherwise understand that actions have serious consequences. They don't always have the maturity to process why something is important. You can't just let them keep running out into traffic if they choose not to listen, or fire them for heinous behavior. Spanking replaces a worse consequence they can't otherwise experience and haven't been able to understand through other methods, providing a deterrent until they actually believe that they aren't really faster than that car, or that landing on someone's spine can get pretty serious. The rarer it is (I would guess at under a dozen times throughout my childhood), the more it will register as a really, really important lesson.

Of course, I don't have kids and it isn't looking particularly likely, so I am an expert. :)
 
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Deety said:
For me, that is the justification for spanking. There are lessons kids must learn in order to avoid harm to themselves and others, or otherwise understand that actions have serious consequences. They don't always have the maturity to process why something is important. You can't just let them keep running out into traffic if they choose not to listen, or fire them for heinous behavior. Spanking replaces a worse consequence they can't otherwise experience and haven't been able to understand through other methods, providing a deterrent until they actually believe that they aren't really faster than that car, or that landing on someone's spine can get pretty serious. The rarer it is (I would guess at under a dozen times throughout my childhood), the more it will register as a really, really important lesson.

Of course, I don't have kids and it isn't looking particularly likely, so I am an expert. :)
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Yup - thankfully he mostly missed - but that didn't excuse the action. They've both gotten whacked a couple times for being careless in a parking lot when cars are moving.

That's the other thing, there's smacking them with the intent to send a message and with the intent to actually hurt them. I'll never ever hit them that hard. Even today with my son, I only got him enough to make sure I had his attention, and after his had his little cry, I sat him down and told him exactly why I did it.

The key is you can't reason with or beg the kids to behave, you have to set the standard and enforce it.
 
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Mike80 said:
Yup - thankfully he mostly missed - but that didn't excuse the action. They've both gotten whacked a couple times for being careless in a parking lot when cars are moving.

That's the other thing, there's smacking them with the intent to send a message and with the intent to actually hurt them. I'll never ever hit them that hard. Even today with my son, I only got him enough to make sure I had his attention, and after his had his little cry, I sat him down and told him exactly why I did it.

The key is you can't reason with or beg the kids to behave, you have to set the standard and enforce it.
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Right, if the intent is ever to hurt, that's not spanking, that's abuse. And there should be hugs after. Kids should feel safe in that even if they are going to be spanked, they are always, always safe with Mom and Dad.
 
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Deety said:
Right, if the intent is ever to hurt, that's not spanking, that's abuse. And there should be hugs after. Kids should feel safe in that even if they are going to be spanked, they are always, always safe with Mom and Dad.
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Rare and special is the parent who can "discipline" dispassionately.
To see it is an eye opener.
We must teach non-violence. We must teach respect for everyone.
 
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I'm not a parent but just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't "get it" as some would like to claim.

I was spanked as a kid and I also got the belt a couple of times from mom. She was the disciplinarian. I also got the warning a couple of times thereafter that the belt was coming. Also a couple that I should go pick my belt of choice.

I still remember the belt and I can tell you I absolutely deserved it. Heck my mom put me on the curb to go to boarding school with my bags packed a few times. Not fun for a kid.

That said, decisions have consequences. A GREAT lesson all kids should learn. I absolutely believe in corporal punishment. Spanking, belt, wooden spoon(which my wife got) whatever is your method. All are effective believe you me.

I have seen and know far too many kids that get a timeout or a 1,2,3 countdown crap. To me, it's a cop out and nonsense and works about as well as a hug and a finger.

Our world is already to pussified for me as it is and we continue to raise kids that are gigantic pansies. Time for some tough love and stop coddling your kids. They own you. Time for you to step up and be a parent, not a friend.

That is to no one in particular. Just my .02
 
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Taosman said:
Rare and special is the parent who can "discipline" dispassionately.
To see it is an eye opener.
We must teach non-violence. We must teach respect for everyone.
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And that's the art of discipline. It is a teaching method, not an outlet for emotion and anger. As long as parents approach corporal punishment in that manner, they are usually engaging appropriately.

It's not at all analogous to striking an adult women. It is NOT a man's job to teach a woman how to behave. It is a parent's job to teach his children how to behave. That's the difference.

And, regardless of what Mili continues to say, striking any adult (man or woman) for any reason other than self defense is wrong.
 
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Mike80 said:
That's the other thing, there's smacking them with the intent to send a message and with the intent to actually hurt them. I'll never ever hit them that hard. Even today with my son, I only got him enough to make sure I had his attention, and after his had his little cry, I sat him down and told him exactly why I did it.
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Exactly the way to do it...
 
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I have only administered spankings after giving at least one warning, and only ever a single swat over the pants (except in a single instance where my older daughter was acting out and hurt her then-baby sister in the tub), and once she is over the shock I explain why it happened and we hug it out and talk about it. I literally cried the first time I did it, but still I felt it was the right decision in that moment. I've had to follow through on spanking maybe a half-dozen times, really can't even remember when the last one was, because she knows now that when she gets a warning, I will follow through and it will be a direct result of her own decisions. My own parents only spanked me when they were really angry, without any discussion before or after, and I can say that their methods were highly counter-productive.
 
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OH10 said:
Show me where I said striking someone second was ok. It's about self defense. If my wife slaps me, I don't need to hit her to defend myself. That's the point.
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That is where I fall on the issue, as well. Carlos Hyde, Joe Mixon, and Ray Rice all may have been "defending" themselves against a woman who hit first, but none of them were in any real danger.

And I also agree with those who say you should never hit a child out of anger. You should always be smiling when you are beating your kids. (That's a joke....don't crucify me, guys!)
 
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OH10 said:
striking any adult (man or woman) for any reason other than self defense is wrong.
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I'm guessing that you'd include "coming to the defense of someone who cannot defend himself". That may not need to be said, but I figured I'd just throw that hat in the ring. Or the puck in the goal. Or the shoes over the power lines. Or... whatever the expression is. Throw the mints in the toilet? Nevermind. Beat Nebraska!
 
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Zurp said:
I'm guessing that you'd include "coming to the defense of someone who cannot defend himself". That may not need to be said, but I figured I'd just throw that hat in the ring. Or the puck in the goal. Or the shoes over the power lines. Or... whatever the expression is. Throw the mints in the toilet? Nevermind. Beat Nebraska!
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Correct. It's all a matter of defense. I'm not a proponent of retribution - though I understand the instinct, it is still wrong.
 
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