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Multiple shootings at Va Tech

Jeffcat;813958; said:
but i could also say the same vice versa. the students are in a state of confusion and a guy is killing people and they have no clue what is going on or what his motive is or who he is after and on and on.

motive has no relevance. anyone who discharges a weapon in your presence is a threat to your survival and it must be assumed that they intend to take your life regardless of who the current target is. the fact that they discharged the weapon in your presence is proof of that. if you were standing in a room with concrete walls with a guy randomly firing a weapon in any direction would your first point of concern be why he was doing it? or would you be more interested in taking action to preserve your life for fear of being struck by a ricochet?

1. you don't load a weapon unless you intend to fire it.
2. you don't point it at someone/something unless you intend to kill.

if you walk into a convenience store, pull a gun on the clerk, and demand money im not going to wait around to see if you intend to kill the witnesses as well. your actions are proof to me that you have 0 value in your life, mine, the clerks and anyone elses within weapon range. if you don't value your life, why should i?

its not surprising that they would think otherwise and say 1: do nothing and you will likely die and 2: fight back and you WILL die. now this is not as hopeless as it may seem because many of the students went to step 3 and avoided the situation altogether by barricading doors, playing dead, jumping out of windows, etc.

i can point out about 50 instances in which that mindset failed miserably. while not the most heroic of options, those who at the very least barricaded the doors took action. which i might add, saved not only their lives, but the lives of everyone else in those rooms. had they ran rather than stand their ground and do something, there is a very good chance that they and several others from those rooms would have died as well.

while barricading the doors put them in direct danger as the nutjob fired blindly into them, they seemed to have faired far better than those who played dead, prayed they weren't the intended target, hoped he ran out of ammo, etc...

im not saying its fool proof or the safest of things to do. but given the option of taking my life into my own hands or putting it into the hands of a nutjob and hoping...
 
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scooter1369;814028; said:
Why not. Make up your meaning to what I said. Its a trend today.
Then what are you saying? Please explain how nationality is somehow relevant to these crimes.

Jeffcat just rattled off a long list of similar psychos that were homegrown caucasians, including the most relevant example, Columbine.
 
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jwinslow;814037; said:
Then what are you saying? Please explain how nationality is somehow relevant to these crimes.

Jeffcat just rattled off a long list of similar psychos that were homegrown caucasians, including the most relevant example, Columbine.


But these home grown caucasians are our problem. Had Son Chop stayed in Korea to go to school, he'd be their problem, not ours.
 
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scooter1369;814051; said:
But these home grown caucasians are our problem. Had Son Chop stayed in Korea to go to school, he'd be their problem, not ours.
That doesn't answer the question. This was a random act of violence, one that is done by many nationalities. What is the use in singling him out as a foreigner? How is that productive for finding a solution to prevent this from happening again?

How many generations do you have to live here before you are 'our problem'? Almost every american is a descendent from them.
 
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This guy would have been a problem wherever he had gone to school, in any country. The difference is that he was (I think it's safe to assume) able to easily get ahold of two guns. That's the problem. He'd have killed a lot fewer people with a knife.
 
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The shooter:

cho_seung_hui_lg.jpg
 
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martinss01;814033; said:
motive has no relevance. anyone who discharges a weapon in your presence is a threat to your survival and it must be assumed that they intend to take your life regardless of who the current target is. the fact that they discharged the weapon in your presence is proof of that. if you were standing in a room with concrete walls with a guy randomly firing a weapon in any direction would your first point of concern be why he was doing it? or would you be more interested in taking action to preserve your life for fear of being struck by a ricochet?

1. you don't load a weapon unless you intend to fire it.
2. you don't point it at someone/something unless you intend to kill.

if you walk into a convenience store, pull a gun on the clerk, and demand money im not going to wait around to see if you intend to kill the witnesses as well. your actions are proof to me that you have 0 value in your life, mine, the clerks and anyone elses within weapon range. if you don't value your life, why should i?



i can point out about 50 instances in which that mindset failed miserably. while not the most heroic of options, those who at the very least barricaded the doors took action. which i might add, saved not only their lives, but the lives of everyone else in those rooms. had they ran rather than stand their ground and do something, there is a very good chance that they and several others from those rooms would have died as well.

while barricading the doors put them in direct danger as the nutjob fired blindly into them, they seemed to have faired far better than those who played dead, prayed they weren't the intended target, hoped he ran out of ammo, etc...

im not saying its fool proof or the safest of things to do. but given the option of taking my life into my own hands or putting it into the hands of a nutjob and hoping...

motive is of relevance because in most of all of their situations they heard the shots outside and as they said they barricaded the doors as a means to survive. the door is some barrier while it may be little it is some as he cannot enter the room. if you hear somebody shooting in the other room or in the hallway you do what everybody else does. you take for cover and try to save yours and everybody elses ass in the room by securing your location and NOT ALLOWING him in. they have no clue what or why somebody is shooting or who they are shooting. they may believe he is directing his fire at certain individuals, certain classes, etc. they dont go run out after the gunman and try to stop him because they obviously dont want to be shot and killed. they are all lying on the ground and for the unfortunate ones he came in while they were on the ground and went at it form the sounds of it. they wont collaborate some type of plan to overthrow him while he is in there with him. the students in the stairwell probably had no chance considering he was most likely at the top of it while they were in a lower spot so he just had to take them out from higher ground while they were probably surrounded by walls.

there just isnt much there is for them to do. i am not saying what i would have done in that situation because i wasnt there and that would be specific but in the instances i have heard so far they are not just going to all converge on him in a state of confusion and fear. you could assume that some of the reports of the professors that stayed behind did actually try to approach him and they didn't make it out. you can't say it is always appropriate to attack a gunman either given the specifics of the situation. say its a hostage situation and you go after the hostage taker who makes an impression by killing a couple people to get a demand and you fail at getting to him or fail in stopping him and he killed you and everybody else in a fit of urgency. i heard a guy on the news talking about how the cops should have busted in as soon as they arrived and got to the gunman to save lives. they still need to secure the premises and evaluate what is happening for sure and where the gunman is. its not a james bond movie folks. they could barge in without thinking in a bondlike manner and on the other side of the door is the gunman waiting for them and bang your dead and you just irritated him even more. like i said i can understand their ways of dealing with things like this they way they did. how i would do it is unknown but i can understand their point from what is known. confusion, fear, panic are all intense emotions that can cloud logic in order to barricade the door but i seriously doubt any of them had any intentions of solely going after the gunman with fists because you are defenseless in that notion when you become the target. you have a gun pointed at you and you can either run at him and die or hope he doesn't decide to kill you. fate is not in your hands at that point.
 
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