Multiple shootings at Va Tech

[Fungo Squiggly]

in a country of around 300 million that statistic is not that staggering compared to other countries.

This is supposed to be the most civilized nation in the world and our murder rate (per this source) is 24th worst? Look at the other "civilized" nations on that list....we lag far behind the Western European nations that are generally put on (or near) par with us for civilized status.

If you don't agree that the US's murder rate is disturbingly high....I don't know.....It disturbs me.

 

[jwinslow]

No. Stop letting just any foreign student in. The question was asked, "Why does it happen here and not other countries?"

Have we learned nothing in the last 6 years?

What does foreign have to do with school shootings? Talk about jumping to conclusions... is this where I say 'I hope it hurt'?

The only thing I learned in the past 7 years was that white kids raised in a stereotypically "good" home/life are still capable of going nuts and murdering a dozen people.

 

[gregorylee]

What does foreign have to do with school shootings? Talk about jumping to conclusions... is this where I say 'I hope it hurt'?

The only thing I learned in the past 7 years was that white kids raised in a stereotypically "good" home/life are still capable of going nuts and murdering a dozen people.

It's those damned video games and rock music!

 

[scooter1369]

What does foreign have to do with school shootings? Talk about jumping to conclusions... is this where I say 'I hope it hurt'?

The only thing I learned in the past 7 years was that white kids raised in a stereotypically "good" home/life are still capable of going nuts and murdering a dozen people.

I can get into this argument and look like a racist, nationalist pig or I can say "whatever" and drop it. So....

"whatever"

 

[martinss01]

I am absolutely certain of one thing, if anything remotely like the early morning shooting were ever to happen again at VT their reaction, by rule would be very, very different. Think in terms of classes closed down.

and if the guy had walked into the dorm, cranked 2 people, then positioned himself in a tall tower with a good view of the campus? as the students are dismissed from classes he takes em out with a high powered rifle on their way to their cars.

they could of been lined up and hoped for mercy. when you are already lined up you are not in much of position to do much and you kinda just hope for the best in mercy. sure you might say you would rush him and stop him after a few but people will save their own ass and realize they are standing there and he has a gun therefore they will lose so they just hope for the best even if it is grim. students inside reported 80-100 shots fired and obviously the accuracy is in question but i find it believable according to these reports. he went into confined rooms and opened fire and killed 32 people and shot through some doors so i dont find it unreasonable for somebody at close range with extra ammo to need an absurd amount of shots to kill that many.

thats the really sad part. no firearm is capable of wounding 50+ persons in a confined space with impunity. worst still, according to the reports i have read he was using hand guns. which means he had to reload repeatedly. he went from class room to classroom unloading, reloading and repeating. not a single person did anything to stop him other than trying to hold doors shut. they just prayed he would run out of ammo before he got to them. this whole notion of not being able to do anything if you are lined up against a wall... if someone walks into a room you are in with a gun and are not a member of law enforcement or the military. the assumption you have to come to is that this person is there to kill you. period. you have 2 choices. 1. do nothing and you WILL die. 2. fight back and you will likely die. ill take likely die over certain to die any day. at the very least i might soak up a few more rounds than i would have otherwise.

The numbers are staggering. There were more murders committed yesterday in Blacksburg than will be committed in a year in many "civilized" countries. Is it our gun laws? Is it our culture? Something is definitely different.

its freedom. our laws allow us to do as we wish up to the point where we infringe upon the rights of others. well, to break the law you have to infringe upon the rights of another. once you have done so... its kinda too late for that person isn't it? you want these types of things to stop? give up some more freedoms. like all things, its a simple trade off.

 

[FCollinsBuckeye]

From CNN's website:

Kevin Granata, age unknown, was one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the country working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy, the head of Engineering Science and Mechanics Department at Virginia Tech said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. His academic career included stints at the Johns Hopkins University, Ohio State University, University of Virginia and Wake Forest University.

This must be the guy LoKy referred to...

 

[cincibuck]

in a country of around 300 million that statistic is not that staggering compared to other countries.

Murder rate (per 100,000 people)
United States 8.40
Canada 5.45
Denmark 5.17
France 4.60
Portugal 4.50
Australia 4.48
Germany 4.20
Belgium 2.80
Spain 2.28
Switzerland 2.25
Italy 2.18
Norway 1.99
United Kingdom 1.97
Austria 1.80
Greece 1.76
Sweden 1.73
Japan 1.20
Ireland 0.96
Finland 0.70

Now take the US and any group of "First World" nations you want that will make up a base of 300,000,000 and compare...

Is it the ease of obtaining a gun?

Is there something volatile about our diversified population?

Is it our wealth?

Is it our history?

Add to this the fact that we incarcerate way more people than most other countries (again on a per 100K basis)

Something is going on in this country that is unmatched in the rest of the First World nations. I don't believe it's just guns, but I do believe the ease with which anyone can obtain a gun and a significant amount of ammunition is staggering.

I've spent part of 30 years around weapons. I've been a range officer many times and a safety officer even more. The care with which we handled weapons and ammunition in the Army impressed upon me the danger involved. And yet any fool can walk into a hardware store or a pawn shop and walk out with a gun... no safety training... no requirement to buy a trigger lock or other safety device. We make everyone take a test to get a driver's license and yet we sell guns to anyone, no test required.

 

[LoKyBuckeye]

From CNN's website:



This must be the guy LoKy referred to...

yup... that's him.

 

[kinch]

I read discussions about the shooting at numerous websites yesterday. I am proud to say that the discussion at BuckeyePlanet was more controlled, remorseful, and respectful than the discussion of any other site that I visited.

Now, however, as it is a new day, the discussions will, and in many aspects should, turn rather political. Perhaps someone with some moderator-fu can separate out a 2nd Amendment Rights/Gun Control thread, as I assume that that will be the primary political issue to be discussed. . .

 

[scooter1369]

I read discussions about the shooting at numerous websites yesterday. I am proud to say that the discussion at BuckeyePlanet was more controlled, remorseful, and respectful than the discussion of any other site that I visited.

Now, however, as it is a new day, the discussions will, and in many aspects should, turn rather political. Perhaps someone with some moderator-fu can separate out a 2nd Amendment Rights/Gun Control thread, as I assume that that will be the primary political issue to be discussed. . .

I'm willing to bet a 2nd Amendment thread already exists.

 

[kinch]

I'm willing to bet a 2nd Amendment thread already exists.

Figured. I see you bumped something up. Very nice. I just can't move anything over there (I don't think), and possibly generalize the thread title. . .

 

[Dryden]

Something is going on in this country that is unmatched in the rest of the First World nations.

The Second Amendment.

 

[tibor75]

This is supposed to be the most civilized nation in the world and our murder rate (per this source) is 24th worst? Look at the other "civilized" nations on that list....we lag far behind the Western European nations that are generally put on (or near) par with us for civilized status.

If you don't agree that the US's murder rate is disturbingly high....I don't know.....It disturbs me.

what about our poverty rate?

Our health care insured rate?

Heck, look at our infant mortality rate which lags behind almost EVERY industrialized nation.

There are plenty of disturbing facts about this great nation...

 

[Jeffcat]

if someone walks into a room you are in with a gun and are not a member of law enforcement or the military. the assumption you have to come to is that this person is there to kill you. period. you have 2 choices. 1. do nothing and you WILL die. 2. fight back and you will likely die. ill take likely die over certain to die any day. at the very least i might soak up a few more rounds than i would have otherwise.

but i could also say the same vice versa. the students are in a state of confusion and a guy is killing people and they have no clue what is going on or what his motive is or who he is after and on and on. its not surprising that they would think otherwise and say 1: do nothing and you will likely die and 2: fight back and you WILL die. now this is not as hopeless as it may seem because many of the students went to step 3 and avoided the situation altogether by barricading doors, playing dead, jumping out of windows, etc.

 

[Dryden]

what about our poverty rate?

Our health care insured rate?

Heck, look at our infant mortality rate which lags behind almost EVERY industrialized nation.

There are plenty of disturbing facts about this great nation...

But at least we don't have to listen to Don Imus talking about them anymore!