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Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

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Jax, chill. He didn't go running to the microphones to call out the media. They stuck the mics in his face and asked him if he was pleased with his performance as if he didn't have any arms and this was some amazing feat.


I don't understand the people who jump on the guy. He doesn't play QB the same way John Elway did. Does that mean he sucks, or he's different?
 
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OSUsushichic said:
All this talk that he's a winner, but how many NCs did he win? Super Bowls?
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OSUsushichic:

I believe that a player can be considered a "winner" without actually winning the "big one".

I ass/u/me that you are a Red Sox fan: I consider Red Sox greats like Carl Yastrzemski, Carlton Fisk, and Ted Williams, etc. "winners". And how many World Series rings do they own?
 
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peyton never got it done in the playoffs against a good defense... however I dont' think people would suggest that is evidence of his lack of skill as a QB.

I realize they are apples and oranges, but if you give Atlanta a true #1 WR this year, they would probably make it to the Superbowl and be the underdogs against the Steelers.

The Falcon's backup QB ain't bad. Look how meager their success has been with him as the starter. Clearly its not just the team carrying Vick.
 
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jwinslow said:
peyton never got it done in the playoffs against a good defense... however I dont' think people would suggest that is evidence of his lack of skill as a QB.

I realize they are apples and oranges, but if you give Atlanta a true #1 WR this year, they would probably make it to the Superbowl and be the underdogs against the Steelers.

The Falcon's backup QB ain't bad. Look how meager their success has been with him as the starter. Clearly its not just the team carrying Vick.
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Actually Schaub threw for 298 yards and 3TDs against New England, a game that they barely lost in his only start this year. Granted, Doug Johnson was horrible when he played the year that Vick was out in the preseason, but Schaub has played pretty well.
 
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Running the west coast offense on the surface is about hitting short passes and letting the recievers make plays. If you look a little closer however it is about keeping drives alive and taking what defenses give you. In this respect Vick has no equal. Sure his stats don't blow you away but there are countless times that he will keep a drive alive with his feet. "Just keep matriculating the ball down the field boys". That really is the name of the game.

From this first point comes my second point. First downs on offense help to make a dominant defense. They are very well rested and almost always defending a long field. Vick's numbers will probably never look like those of Steve Young but his wins will always be up there. One of the few things that has always been true in the nfl is that if you can run the football and play good defense you will be a solid team. Teams with Mike Vick at QB will have a leg up on both.
 
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that's what I'm suggesting. Schaub is a pretty good pocket QB, yet they have lost more than they have won with him as the starter recently (IIRC). If the Falcons carry "Kordell Vick" than why don't they beat down teams when a talented passer assumes the role of QB?
 
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jwinslow said:
that's what I'm suggesting. Schaub is a pretty good pocket QB, yet they have lost more than they have won with him as the starter recently (IIRC). If the Falcons carry "Kordell Vick" than why don't they beat down teams when a talented passer assumes the role of QB?
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I hear you, I'm just saying that Schaub is only 0-2 as a starter, and he played well enough this season for them to beat the defending Super Bowl Champions. Would Vick have had them that close? Maybe....maybe not.
 
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Bucklion said:
I hear you, I'm just saying that Schaub is only 0-2 as a starter, and he played well enough this season for them to beat the defending Super Bowl Champions. Would Vick have had them that close? Maybe....maybe not.
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I know you get my point, but I can't resist. This year's patriots are a good team at best. If indeed Atlanta is a great all-around team, and Vick has benefited from that, then with great play from Schaub they should beat NE. Otherwise, it suggests there are weaknesses on that team besides QB that are exposed sometimes.
 
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ScarletBlood31 said:
i dont remember the exact stat, but it was something about no QB with over 350 yards rushing (for the season) has ever won a superbowl (in that season).

Vick is good, and his running threat is enough to have to make adjustments when you play him, but untill i see some kind of stability in him im not a believer. he did beat the packers at Lambeau field a few years back and that was a pretty big accomplishment, but still even if you go back to his college days, he never has come up big in the postseason. he lost to FSU in the NC in college, and has now not won anything in the playoffs.

i think that after his career is said and done, he will be more of a "novelty" QB that you remember was exciting to watch and was an incredible athlete, but was out of position. i just dont see him coming up big in a super bowl-type game against a true great defense.
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Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.
 
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jwinslow said:
peyton never got it done in the playoffs against a good defense... however I dont' think people would suggest that is evidence of his lack of skill as a QB.

I realize they are apples and oranges, but if you give Atlanta a true #1 WR this year, they would probably make it to the Superbowl and be the underdogs against the Steelers.

The Falcon's backup QB ain't bad. Look how meager their success has been with him as the starter. Clearly its not just the team carrying Vick.
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I don't think it would matter who is at WR. If he had a #1 receiver he would just lock on to him like he does with Crumpler. Having a #1 receiver will not change the fact that Vick can not read defenses and has trouble throwing accurate passes to his receivers.
 
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jwinslow said:
I know you get my point, but I can't resist. This year's patriots are a good team at best. If indeed Atlanta is a great all-around team, and Vick has benefited from that, then with great play from Schaub they should beat NE. Otherwise, it suggests there are weaknesses on that team besides QB that are exposed sometimes.
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And with average QB play they should have beaten Seattle, but they didn't.

This is one of those unwinnable arguments...is the team winning because of him, or in spite of him? Obviously some have empassioned opinions one way or another. Personally, I think it's a little of both, depending on the week. Vick played great last week, and carried his team to victory....can you say the same about the Jets game? I don't think so. Point being he can be great, and he can be terrible. He's definitely "unorthodoxed" compared to the prototypical NFL QB, but that doesn't necessarily make him better...or worse, just different.
 
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Bucklion said:
And with average QB play they should have beaten Seattle, but they didn't.

This is one of those unwinnable arguments...is the team winning because of him, or in spite of him? Obviously some have empassioned opinions one way or another. Personally, I think it's a little of both, depending on the week. Vick played great last week, and carried his team to victory....can you say the same about the Jets game? I don't think so. Point being he can be great, and he can be terrible. He's definitely "unorthodoxed" compared to the prototypical NFL QB, but that doesn't necessarily make him better...or worse, just different.
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I think the best way to say it is that Vick is one hell of a passing running back.
 
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Bucklion said:
Point being he can be great, and he can be terrible. He's definitely "unorthodoxed" compared to the prototypical NFL QB, but that doesn't necessarily make him better...or worse, just different.
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I disagree, I would say this assessment is a winner. I am not necessarily a Michael Vick fan (I would take Peyton, Brady, and Donovan over him), but I think he gets far too much hype and too much criticism.
 
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Jeffcat said:
? he led the falcons to the NFC championship game.............one away from the super bowl and that was without any good recievers on the team so i dunno what you are talking about.
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well i know there happens to be a few other quarterbacks out there that routinely make it to the Conference Championship games and super bowls, but are always classified as "cannot win in the playoffs". Its amazing how McNabb can go to 4 straight NFC championships with 1 super bowl appearance, and then Manning can put together great season after great season, but are both considered "guys who cannot win in the playoffs" while Vick makes it to 1 and loses.
 
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