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Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

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crazybuckfan40;620665; said:
McNabb, Manning, Palmer, Hasselback, Brady, Farve....

Here are the obvious ones in terms of overall production and their ability to get to the big game.

Now give me who you guys think are the other ones....
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Roethlisberger, Doelhomme(sp?), T. Green, Bulger and Brees are all QB's I'd take over Vick along with the ones you mentioned. Not taking age into the equation...
 
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crazybuckfan40;620665; said:
McNabb, Manning, Palmer, Hasselback, Brady, Farve....

Here are the obvious ones in terms of overall production and their ability to get to the big game.

Now give me who you guys think are the other ones....
Click to expand...

Roethlisberger and Palmer are definitely more established, but as far as QBs who I would probably take to lead my team over Vick are Carr, E. Manning, Delhomme, McNair, Bledsoe, Plummer, Trent Green, and possibly Culpepper or Leftwich, but Culpepper has looked pretty bad this season.
 
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NFBuck;620667; said:
Roethlisberger, Doelhomme(sp?), T. Green, Bulger and Brees are all QB's I'd take over Vick along with the ones you mentioned.
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Roethlisberger and Palmer are definitely more established, but as far as QBs who I would probably take to lead my team over Vick are Carr, E. Manning, Delhomme, McNair, Bledsoe, Plummer, Trent Green, and possibly Culpepper or Leftwich, but Culpepper has looked pretty bad this season.
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Well since we are disecting everything...Here we go...

Big Ben - He is the product of being in the very right system...And he does one helluva job in it. He doesnt put up the stats, but puts up the wins and manages a game very well. Do I take him over Vick for the Steelers Hell yeah...For the Falcons it is a toss up. I will check back to this in a couple weeks after he gets over his accident jitters and gets back to playing like he is capable of.

Delhomme - No comment, just an oversight on my part here...But he did look quite average in the first couple games when the best receiver in the game was out...Just some food for thought...


Trent Green - Give me Vick...Green is over the hill at this point. A couple of years ago I might agree with this one.

Drew Brees - This was another toss up...This kid is a winner and has been everywhere he has went. He is the little guy that just gets it done. If I was forced to pick I think I take Brees tho, but it is close.

Marc Bulger - He has never played a full season...I know Vick has struggled with this too...But he has a bad TD/INT ratio too...And he doesnt bring the running dynamic at all to the game. Give me Vick

David Carr - I still don't see this one...He does have trouble with protection, but Vick does too at times...I would also say that Carr has better Wideouts than Vick. Vick playmaking ability takes the cake on this one too...

E. Manning - Or should I say throw the ball up to Plaxico and see if he comes down with it. He has probably the best weapons in the NFL and he had a worse career rating than Vick and he doesnt bring the running dynamic that Vick has...

S. McNair - Another oversight...And a guy that has resurrected his career in Baltimore. He is back to being one of the best like he was early in his career.

Bledsoe - Another joke I hope...You talk about Vick not winning anything...Look at what Brady did with Bledsoe's team and now Dallas is talking about their second string no name qb over him. He is also the defintion of statue qb.

Plummer - He is in the bottom 3rd of qbs I want leading my team. They are already talking about putting a rookie in in his place. he is the worst decision making qb in the NFL.

Culpepper - I really thought he would excell in Miami honestly, but he is proving that Randy Moss really made him look good.

Leftwich - Another guy that can manage a game with the best of them and is a warrior, and another guy I would probably say in J-Ville I go with leftwich in ATL I got with Vick.

So all in all I say Manning, Brady, Palmer, Delhomme, Brees, Mcnabb, Hassellback, McNair, and Farve.

But look at that list and all of them have years on Vick besides Palmer and not sure on Brees. I really think that Vick is primed for a great year...Not necessairly in the stat column, but much like a year of Big Ben where he manages the team and gets them in positions to make plays, while he makes plays with his feet and doesnt make the mistakes. Call me optimistic, or what, but I guess it is just one mans opinion.
 
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This is interesting...since we are talking about 2006, let's talk about who, right now, would we take over Vick, if we were only fielding a team for 2006? By division:

AFC East: Brady (duh), Culpepper (probably, but then again maybe not), Pennington (if we are going by just the 3 games this year, yes...if by other criteria, jury is still out), Losman (OK, just kidding, totally not)

AFC North: B-Roth (yes), McNair (yes, even though he's over the hill he still proved he can lead the Ravens back at the end of a game), Frye (no), Palmer (of course)

AFC South: PManning (obvious), Leftwich (so far, yes), Carr (yes based on this year, no based on last year), Collins/VY (er, no)

AFC West: Green (yes), Rivers (no), Brooks/Walter/Whatever (er no), Plummer (toss-up, but probably no)

NFC East: McNabb (duh), EManning (yes), Bledsoe (yes), Brunell (no, though he's about as consitent as Vick, he can't run anymore)

NFC North: Brad Johnson (yes), Favre (yes...still), Kitna (no), Grossman (so far...yes, but that's based on only 3 games...otherwise no)

NFC South: Brees (yes), Delhomme (yes), Simms (no)

NFC West: Warner (not now), Hasselbeck (yes), Bulger (yes), ASmith (no)
 
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Thinking it over, ill concede that Plummer and Eli Manning don't belong ahead of Vick. I think Manning is slightly overrated, but he could turn out to be good in a few years. Plummer is most likely on the way out, after a decent season last year.

Bledsoe, I think is sitll a decent QB. That is probably just another one where it is opinion vs. opinion.
 
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Now after seeing who I would take and not take, I have a little different view on this.

Think about Nebraska back in their glory days with Tommy Frazier/Eric Crouch. They werent winning with a traditional offense, what they were doing was totally different, but they had their style and it worked for them.

Look at Vicks record as a starter and it shows that the Falcons can win with him as the qb and him not having great accuracy, but making up for it in th running game.
 
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While Crouch was a Heisman winner, I don't know if you want to make comparisons to him, seeing as where he has ended up.

Also, Crouch did not win any national championships, so the argument that he is a "winner" is kind of defeated because he didn't lead them to win anything.
 
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Also, Crouch did not win any national championships, so the argument that he is a "winner" is kind of defeated because he didn't lead them to win anything.
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That troy smith surely isn't a winner either, right 31?

I've never understood the obsession with championships. A QB needs a lot of help & luck to win a title. Favre gets lots of credit from his superbowl ring, but he hasn't made another superbowl without that incredible roster around him.
 
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ScarletBlood31;620951; said:
While Crouch was a Heisman winner, I don't know if you want to make comparisons to him, seeing as where he has ended up.

Also, Crouch did not win any national championships, so the argument that he is a "winner" is kind of defeated because he didn't lead them to win anything.
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I think you missed the point here, I was in no way saying that Crouch was on his way to stardom. I was just pointing out that he played in a system that was unlike any others and he managed it.
 
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crazybuckfan40;620991; said:
I think you missed the point here, I was in no way saying that Crouch was on his way to stardom. I was just pointing out that he played in a system that was unlike any others and he managed it.
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One could also use the opposite argument (to an extent) and point to all the yards the Hawaii QBs throw for...no one thinks of them as the best players in college football either.
 
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Bucklion;620999; said:
One could also use the opposite argument (to an extent) and point to all the yards the Hawaii QBs throw for...no one thinks of them as the best players in college football either.
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The thing is the guys at Nebraska were winning games, guys at Hawaii are putting up ungodly #'s, but not necessairly winning.

The thing I am getting at is that he doesnt have great stats, but he makes the offense what it is and they win more games than they lose....
 
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crazybuckfan40;621011; said:
The thing is the guys at Nebraska were winning games, guys at Hawaii are putting up ungodly #'s, but not necessairly winning.

The thing I am getting at is that he doesnt have great stats, but he makes the offense what it is and they win more games than they lose....
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Yeah, I know...and I was just adding that unGodly stats don't necessarily mean good, like you were saying good doesn't necesarily mean unGodly stats.
 
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i skipped the last five pages or so, but i believe that the problem is NOT that the receivers aren't getting open. honestly, we can't even make that assessment from our couches, so that's an assumption. the problem with the dropped balls does fall on the receivers a bit, but not, IMHO, the lion's share of the blame. from what i can see, Vick tends to throw the ball about 800 MPH when 50 would do. seriously, i've never seen anyone other than Vick throw a 60 MPH screen pass. he has NO touch whatsover.

this falls back on his HS coaches, Frank Beamer, his NFL coaches, and to a degree Vick himself. he has that uncoachable talent which has enabled him to get by without becoming a student of the game. unlike another very athletic guy who we've watch transform himself from an athlete playing QB into a true QB, Vick is still an athlete playing QB...
 
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