Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[crazybuckfan40]

Jesus Christ, dude. Look at their numbers this year. Try and compare them. Carr has absolutely nothing to work with in Houston. He's taken more of a beating than Vick will in his entire career. Yet, Carr still has him beat in numbers. He's a better QB than Vick. If you put Carr in a Falcons uniform, I guarantee you that they're better off. I can't stand it when people think that Vick's "so fucking good." He's exciting to watch, but he's not even one of the Top 15 QB's in the NFL.

Got your panties all in a bunch I see...

 

[Jaxbuck]

I would agree with the passing rb analogy, but like I said I do not like the stats, and I think that you can see why, I mean his stats look like David Carr, but I would think that many people would agree with me that he brings a lot more to the table than David Carr. You have to keep in mind how much Vick helps the running game because of Ends having to stay home and watch out for Vick and you have to agree that he gives the WRs more time to get open by his scrambling.

The numbers don't fit your preconceived notion of the 2 players so the numbers must be flawed. Sadly, I've ran into that mindset a time or two before.

His stats look like David Carr because his game isn't that much better than David Carr and I don't really care what the media hype machine has to say about it. Fundamental numbers over a large sample size are kinda hard to argue with.

Sure, I'll agree his scrambling gives WR more time to get open. My question is so what? He still doesn't complete many passes or throw many TD's. If his running ability opens up the passing game so much, why are his passing numbers so awful?

 

[crazybuckfan40]

The numbers don't fit your preconceived notion of the 2 players so the numbers must be flawed. Sadly, I've ran into that mindset a time or two before.

His stats look like David Carr because his game isn't that much better than David Carr and I don't really care what the media hype machine has to say about it. Fundamental numbers over a large sample size are kinda hard to argue with.

Sure, I'll agree his scrambling gives WR more time to get open. My question is so what? He still doesn't complete many passes or throw many TD's. If his running ability opens up the passing game so much, why are his passing numbers so awful?

Look at his first 2 games when he controlled the game, put up a ton of yards on the ground. He didnt put up that many yards through the air or he didnt have very accurate games.

I will agree that his accuracy is awful at times, but where in your stats analysis do you put in all the the first downs he picks up with his legs, or the plays he makes with his legs.

I would say that his running ability opens up the running game more so than it does the passing game. I mean the Falcons had more yards thru 2 games than any other team had thru 3.

I will also say that if the Falcons have to play from behind they struggle at times b/c Vick is not a great drop back passer, and that is when the line struggles to give him time when the d-line has their ears pinned back.

 

[jwinslow]

Right. Vick almost won a national championship, single-handedly. Young WON one by himself. Young's more accurate than Vick, and will succeed in the Titans' offense. It's astonishing that any QB could possibly be near 50 percent in the West Coast offense. I'm not saying Vince Young will fail. He very well may. But at least I'm not as biased as some of you dumbasses.

stop, just stop. Say you like VY better as a QB, I know I do. But pretending like Young won that title by himself, when you witnessed their defense shut down OSU's offense after many VY turnovers, is pretty comical.

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

ABJ

Familiar sight: Vick's stats not pretty

PAUL NEWBERRY

Associated Press

FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. - This looks familiar: Three weeks into the season, Michael Vick is mired near the bottom of the NFL's passing stats.
His rating: 23rd.
His yards: 28th.
His completions: 47 percent.
"I know everybody is going to look at the stats and say it looks bad for me," the Falcons quarterback said Wednesday after a two-hour practice. "But this is a team game. Everyone has to do their job. And I don't feed into the stats book. I just want to be credited for wins and losses."
In that respect, the Falcons (2-1) are off to a good start, beating a couple of NFC South foes before losing to New Orleans in the emotionally charged reopening of the Superdome.
While the Monday night defeat can easily be attributed to the Saints' passion in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, it raised a common red flag for the Atlanta offense. When the Falcons have trouble running the ball, are Vick and those around him capable of winning the game through the air?
Not against New Orleans. Vick completed only 12 of 31 passes for 137 yards, though his numbers were skewed by at least five drops - including a certain touchdown that slipped away from normally sure-handed tight end Alge Crumpler.
For the season, Vick has connected on 32 of 68 throws for 369 yards, with three touchdowns and one interception. Those numbers look downright puny alongside quarterbacks such as Philadelphia's Donovan McNabb, who has thrown for a league-leading 960 yards.
"I'm extremely happy with Mike. It's difficult not to be happy with Mike," Falcons coach Jim Mora insisted. "There's no column on the statistic sheet for dropped passes. It just shows completions, attempts, percentage and rating. When the receivers drop the ball, the numbers are not going to look as good. And our receivers dropped some balls the other night."
Atlanta's wins over Carolina and Tampa Bay were powered by a dominant running game that prominently featured Vick. But the Saints were not fooled by the shotgun option that so confused the Buccaneers, limiting the Falcons to 117 yards on the ground - less than half of what they averaged in the first two games. Vick, in fact, was the team's top rusher with 57 yards.
Of course, the Falcons knew they weren't going to put up a rushing average of 279 yards over a 16-game season. The passing game would have to take on a bigger role, and Mora is pleased with Vick's progress in the West Coast-style offense that gave him trouble the last two years.
"It's better, a lot better," the coach said. "It's a lot better from the standpoint of decision-making, timing, breaking down the progressions, knowing where to go with the ball a lot quicker. The problem Monday night was we dropped five passes. And New Orleans covered well. They got their hands in there and knocked a lot of balls out."
The protection for Vick was another concern. The Falcons' undersized line is better suited for the zone blocking schemes of the running game. When playing off their heels, the guys up front often have trouble setting up an effective pocket around No. 7. The Saints sacked Vick five times and smacked him around on nine passes he did get away.
The Falcons may have gotten away from their running game a little too quickly, trying to catch up through the air after the Saints jumped to a 14-3 lead in the first quarter. And there were more struggles in the red zone; Going into Sunday's home game against the Arizona Cardinals (1-2), Atlanta has gone more than 6 1/2 quarters without scoring a touchdown.
"It is a very real concern, but we feel like we can get through it," Mora said. "We will get through it."
The Falcons have been a run-oriented team since Mora took over as coach in 2004. They led the league in rushing the last two seasons and are on the way to doing it again, which partially explains Vick's ordinary passing stats. He ranked 21st in passing efficiency in 2004, when Atlanta reached the NFC championship game, and dropped to 25th last season.
Vick said he's still getting used to a relatively new group of receivers. Michael Jenkins is in his second year as a starter. Roddy White is in his second year, period. Ashley Lelie is still learning the offense after being acquired from Denver during the preseason.
"We're still working hard together," Vick said. "This is really our first year together with the crew we have out there now. We're still working on our chemistry."
And how long will it take to get there?
"It's not going to happen overnight," Vick said. "Maybe it will be all year long. Maybe halfway through the year we'll have it down."
Mora is confident that Vick's passing numbers will look much better by the time the season is done.
"If you take the emotion out of it and just try to gauge where we are, I like the progress we are making in the passing game," Mora said. "It's not reflected in the numbers yet, but it will be as we go through the year."

 

[The Man]

Right. Vick almost won a national championship, single-handedly. Young WON one by himself. Young's more accurate than Vick, and will succeed in the Titans' offense.

by himself huh? Must have watched a different Texas team than me. The Texas team I saw had 1st rounders (and future 1st rounders) at RB, OL, DL, LB, and DB. Since when is Vince more accurate than anyone? That is the Vince that has a 41.7 completion percentage (10 for 24) so far right?

 

[ytownbuckeye]

he's really horrible if you had atlanta -4 monday nite

 

[Captain Hindsight]

by himself huh? Must have watched a different Texas team than me. The Texas team I saw had 1st rounders (and future 1st rounders) at RB, OL, DL, LB, and DB. Since when is Vince more accurate than anyone? That is the Vince that has a 41.7 completion percentage (10 for 24) so far right?

Ha, right. It's funny because Young's played two games in his career. There's no doubt in my mind he's going to have his fair share of struggles... no doubt. However, I think you and CB40 need to realize how truly biased you are. It's sickening.

Yeah, their defense was solid, and with the expection of the late stop in the National Championship last year, they were extremely vulnerable against USC. Was I the only one that saw him run for 200 yards and pass for 267 yards, as well?

Last I checked "almost" doesn't count. Vick's still got a lot to prove.

 

[jwinslow]

Ha, right. It's funny because Young's played two games in his career. There's no doubt in my mind he's going to have his fair share of struggles... no doubt.

Then you might want to wait till that happens rather than base your arguments on hype.

However, I think you and CB40 need to realize how truly biased you are. It's sickening.

Funny, I see a pretty similar bias from both sides

Was I the only one that saw him run for 200 yards and pass for 267 yards, as well?

No, you were the only one in this thread claiming he won the title by himself, which is absurd. You made your bed with that statement. No one is arguing that VY wasn't better than everyone else on the field, much like Vick.

Last I checked "almost" doesn't count. Vick's still got a lot to prove.

Put Vince on Vick's VT team, and he'd have to get tuberville to make him an 'almost' nc ring. There's no chance they would have beaten OSU in the shoe.

Vick led his team from 21 down in that game to take a lead, then FSU destroyed the VT defense to win 46-29. So much for ScarletBlood31's "unbiased" opinion that Vick doesn't have the intangibles/courage to lead his team from behind.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

Vick is a dynamic runner, I think we can all agree. But with the running game that "Vick brings to the table", he also brings more risks, as well. Not only does he run the chance of getting hurt every scramble, but turnovers as well. For the 20 rushing TDs Vick has in his career, he has 47 fumbles, with 25 of them being recovered by the defense.

Add that with his career 54 TD to 40 INT ratio, he turns the ball over an awful lot to be such a dangerous quarterback.

Also, Vick may make DEs stay home, but Carr has to deal with 4 D-lineman running at him practically untouched every play. Put Carr on the Falcons, and they are a significantly better team.

Vick led his team from 21 down in that game to take a lead, then FSU destroyed the VT defense to win 46-29. So much for ScarletBlood31's "unbiased" opinion that Vick doesn't have the intangibles/courage to lead his team from behind.

Please. Losing a game by 17 points is hardly anything to brag about when talking about leading a team to victory under pressure. In college.

 

[jwinslow]

Please. Losing a game by 17 points is hardly anything to brag about when talking about leading a team to victory under pressure.

I'm sorry, what's the new argument this time? I'm having trouble keeping up. I already said I like VY better, this is about your foolish attempt at claiming Vick couldn't bring his team back. Anything larger than 21 pts basically requires Sparty on the opposing sideline.

Also, Vick may make DEs stay home, but Carr has to deal with 4 D-lineman running at him practically untouched every play.

All four, untouched, every play? I agree, Carr would be far more productive, in Houston, w/ the same skill players, if he had better protection up front. Funny how this argument doesn't apply when the Saints were destroying the Falcons OL on monday.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

I'm sorry, what's the new argument this time? I'm having trouble keeping up. I already said I like VY better, this is about your foolish attempt at claiming Vick couldn't bring his team back. Anything larger than 21 pts basically requires Sparty on the opposing sideline.All four, untouched, every play? I agree, Carr would be far more productive, in Houston, w/ the same skill players, if he had better protection up front. Funny how this argument doesn't apply when the Saints were destroying the Falcons OL on monday.

Dude, honestly, you can claim I'm biased, oblivious, etc., but it almost sounds like you're his biggest defender (even though you claim you like VY more). I'm not saying Vince Young is better than Vick... because he's not. However, Vick is nowhere near as good as most of you give him credit for.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Ok then where do you put Vick in terms of NFL qbs. Then tell me where you put him in terms of NFL game changers.

 

[NFBuck]

I don't put him in the top 10 as far as who I would want in my huddle needing a score to win the game(thats what I look at). As a game changer he is up there solely based on his ability to run. I don't have as much of a disdain for Vick as last year with much of the hype sourrounding him the past few seasons subsiding.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

All four, untouched, every play? I agree, Carr would be far more productive, in Houston, w/ the same skill players, if he had better protection up front. Funny how this argument doesn't apply when the Saints were destroying the Falcons OL on monday.

I was being sarcastic, and you know it. Maybe I'll explain things more clearly next time so you can keep up.

While New Orleans won the battle up front, Vick is a far cry from having the protection issues that Carr has to deal with every week.

When I made the comment about Vick not being able to lead a team back, I was implying that he hasn't been able to win a big game under these circumstances, in the NFL atleast. True, he did make it to the NFC championship a few seasons ago, but ATL was thoroughly dominated by the Eagles and Vick struggled greatly when Philly was able to shut him down.

But we agree that Carr is the better (passing) QB, and would do wonders more if he had better blocking and some playmakers, and that VY was the better college QB. I think VY will have more success in the NFL, as well, going with what we've seen from him so far.

Ok then where do you put Vick in terms of NFL qbs. Then tell me where you put him in terms of NFL game changers.

I would say he isn't in the top 10, but probably the top 15.

And if by game changer you mean he could either make the play or throw the game away, then yeah he's up there.