Mike Vick (Pittsburgh Steelers)

[Jeffcat]

i dont think that vick is "worthless". And yes, tonight Chicago's defense was great. But this is not the first time Vick has done this kind of thing. As far as a QB that could have had a chance to win that game, i would take Tom Brady. Tom Brady has been through all of that (the steelers had a damn good defense last year in the playoffs), and he has the leadership, talent, and intelligence to get through that. And its not as much as Vick (or any QB) having to shine against a good defense, its just don't make it worse. Don't turn the ball over, and put together smart drives with smart passes. That one pass (first INT) that he kind of fluffed up in the air was pretty pathetic. I would have taken Brett Favre at QB for that game, and possibly Ben Roethlisberger (even as young as he is).

thank you and if i had to take one i would prolly pick brady as well however vick only turned the ball over once tonight(the other pick was BS) and yes it was a bad pass to make but every QB has mistakes and throws a pick in a game typically. for vick to only have one pick in 32 attempts is not turning the ball over badly. the one thing i would criticize vick on is his ball handling running the ball(poor ball security). this has led to fumbles this year a couple times this year but he has made up for it with his running ability. if i had to pick another QB i would pick brady but the way i see it brady wouldnt have won the game for him. he might have made a few more completions but if brady was put into that system where the Oline is getting domianted, you have to abandon your bread and butter running game, and go to your receivers that are now getting into double coverage more often since the run game is unproductive and getting no YAC and barley even getting a chance to get a catch i really dont see how brady would have won the game for them tonight with this falcons team tonight. brady is majoritarily a pocket passer. what is he going to do when that pocket is collapsing before he cant even set his feet up and his receivers are getting covered like a blanket by the leagues best D. he would prolly get sacked more times than vick and have to hurry his throws as well. while he would prolly get more completions imo brady would prolly throw additional picks in that situation. thats just my view of things. i wasnt referencing you as to calling vick "worthless" it was to a previous post.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

And you are right about that, it is definitely a team game. And if i had to rate Atlanta as a team right now, they would get a pretty poor rating from me. And also, its not that i think that Vick is the worst QB in the league, or is completely pathetic, i just think that he is by far the most overrated and overhyped player in the league. I also think that he is out of position, and a great athlete such as himself should be put in a position where he can use that athleticism to his fullest.


But about Manning, he definitely has some talented players around him, but you have to keep in mind that he probably elevates alot of their games to higher levels. Manning is a guy that makes everyone around him better, as is a guy like Tom Brady. I know for awhile, Donovan McNabb had a pretty atrocious group of WRs but still managed to make them look pretty decent, and made them the best that they could be.

I am dissapointed as anyone about ATL right now, they are not playing like they are capable of, but all the blame cannot be put on the recievers. Also keep in mind that Vick has taken his team to the playoffs and has elevated his teams play. Remember the year he got hurt. They went 3-13 or soemthing.

Donavan had the same problem early in his career. For being in the league 5 years I would rate Michael's performance as a B-.

 

[Jeffcat]

You actually think Brady or Manning woudnt have done better? they are hall of fame QBs. Vick is struggling to be a mediocre one this year.
And, yes, sometimes 1 player can lose a game. And Vick lost this one...big time.

And to those who say it was just one game. Here are some stats:

How many times has Vick played all 16 games? NEVER
How many times has Vick thrown for over 3000 yds? NEVER
How many times has Vick thrown for 20 TDS? NEVER
How many times has Vick thrown for 60%? NEVER

how many times did any other team make it to the NFC championship game last year?

 

[crazybuckfan40]

You actually think Brady or Manning woudnt have done better? they are hall of fame QBs. Vick is struggling to be a mediocre one this year.
And, yes, sometimes 1 player can lose a game. And Vick lost this one...big time.

And to those who say it was just one game. Here are some stats:

How many times has Vick played all 16 games? NEVER
How many times has Vick thrown for over 3000 yds? NEVER
How many times has Vick thrown for 20 TDS? NEVER
How many times has Vick thrown for 60%? NEVER

Well are the recievers going to drop balls are the lineman going to block.

Yeah Vick was the one that intercepted the ball and got up and then fumbled it letting the Bears score. Vick was the one that couldnt pick up a block on 3rd-1 to get the first down and same on 4th down.

Dude why don't you take a fucking hike.

I am done with this conversation.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

thank you and if i had to take one i would prolly pick brady as well however vick only turned the ball over once tonight(the other pick was BS) and yes it was a bad pass to make but every QB has mistakes and throws a pick in a game typically. for vick to only have one pick in 32 attempts is not turning the ball over badly. the one thing i would criticize vick on is his ball handling running the ball(poor ball security). this has led to fumbles this year a couple times this year but he has made up for it with his running ability. if i had to pick another QB i would pick brady but the way i see it brady wouldnt have won the game for him. he might have made a few more completions but if brady was put into that system where the Oline is getting domianted, you have to abandon your bread and butter running game, and go to your receivers that are now getting into double coverage more often since the run game is unproductive and getting no YAC and barley even getting a chance to get a catch i really dont see how brady would have won the game for them tonight with this falcons team tonight. brady is majoritarily a pocket passer. what is he going to do when that pocket is collapsing before he cant even set his feet up and his receivers are getting covered like a blanket by the leagues best D. he would prolly get sacked more times than vick and have to hurry his throws as well. while he would prolly get more completions imo brady would prolly throw additional picks in that situation. thats just my view of things. i wasnt referencing you as to calling vick "worthless" it was to a previous post.

Well, for that 2nd INT, I didnt think it was a horrible call. I mean yes, its not a typical INT, but it was a bad decision, and bad decisions lead to turnovers in some cases. You could also argue that Chicago had dropped some INTs (i saw atleast 2 or 3), so that its kind of the law of averages evening out the INT count for Vick. And even when the INTs are dropped, each time it happens, it is a time that he is putting his team at risk for a turnover, even if it doesn't end up being that.

Another thing, I don't know if it was as much as Atlanta's o-line collapsing (they definitely didnt play good, though), or as much as Chicago bringing on the heat because they are not intimidated by Vick's passing presence. When Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are back taking the snaps, you better believe that the defense (no matter who it is) will be taking a few steps back and watching alot for the pass. But they know that Vick can be controlled in the passing game, so they just bring on the heat and make it look like the O-line is being destroyed. That is all just part of an excellent defensive gameplan, and knowing your opponent.

 

[NFBuck]

This thread is cracking me up.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Dude why dont you take a fucking hike.

I love mature people.

 

[Jeffcat]

IMO the bears played atlanta with the best defensive gameplan you could ever come up with and excuted it to perfection. atlanta's gold flash is running the ball with dunn and duckett and having vick roll out and pass/run.

A: pinnacle running offense eliminated
B: key on pass
C: keep great contain around vick to eliminate scrambling
D: silence crumpler as a major threat.

end result: falcons cant run, forced to throw from inside a pocket with the advantage of exposing a weaker Oline, less time with their main big threat(crumpler) out so you can bring help over on white and jenkins on the short field with urlacher and deep with the safties. in essence eliminate their offense. i have to give the bears credit here. if everybody does this to the falcons they will beat them just as soundly but thats easier said then done.

 

[ScarletBlood31]

Well are the recievers going to drop balls are the lineman going to block.

I didn't see dropped passes as much of a problem, and any of those that i did, it wouldn't have made much a difference because the examples that i saw were plays that wouldn't have gone anywhere, anyway. And Michael Jenkins getting the daylight knocked out of him is not dropping a pass. I actually respect him more for taking that hit and making an attempt at the ball.

(*Edit*)

 

[Jeffcat]

Well, for that 2nd INT, I didnt think it was a horrible call. I mean yes, its not a typical INT, but it was a bad decision, and bad decisions lead to turnovers in some cases. You could also argue that Chicago had dropped some INTs (i saw atleast 2 or 3), so that its kind of the law of averages evening out the INT count for Vick. And even when the INTs are dropped, each time it happens, it is a time that he is putting his team at risk for a turnover, even if it doesn't end up being that.

Another thing, I don't know if it was as much as Atlanta's o-line collapsing (they definitely didnt play good, though), or as much as Chicago bringing on the heat because they are not intimidated by Vick's passing presence. When Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are back taking the snaps, you better believe that the defense (no matter who it is) will be taking a few steps back and watching alot for the pass. But they know that Vick can be controlled in the passing game, so they just bring on the heat and make it look like the O-line is being destroyed. That is all just part of an excellent defensive gameplan, and knowing your opponent.

i didnt see anything to validate that jenkins didnt catch the ball. it seemed pretty cut and dry to me personally but they saw otherwise. part of that may be for vicks passing ability but i believe by bringing another guy you just insure that you will contain him more and let the falcons weaker Oline take care of the rest(AKA less time to throw). the bears did an exceptionally well job of keeping vick in the middle of the field.

 

[jwinslow]

I think Vick is grossly overhyped by the media and typically held to an unfair standard by fans. This thread is filled with statements about how so many NFL QBs would do better than Vick, but then Brady/Manning/Roth are typically used for comparisons.

 

[Jeffcat]

I didn't see dropped passes as much of a problem, and any of those that i did, it wouldn't have made much a difference because the examples that i saw were plays that wouldn't have gone anywhere, anyway. And Michael Jenkins getting the daylight knocked out of him is not dropping a pass. I actually respect him more for taking that hit and making an attempt at the ball. If I were Jenkins, id leave a big sack of dog shit for Vick for christmas for getting him destroyed like that.

its not vicks fault. if he wants to leave a sack of shit for anybody its his Oline for not having a running game and letting the bears secondary drop the safety back for help deep. jenkins had that ball anyways. he got jobbed.

 

[Bucklion]

Well the Bears sure smacked Vick around tonight, didn't they? And of course, the media fails to stop the ridiculous hype and admit 2 things:

1-Vick is NOT good enough to win games by himself, so he needs a good supporting cast (sorry Theismann, Tirico, Patrick, McGuire, Madden....)

2-He doesn't have one


I like Jenkins as much as the next OSU guy, but with the WRs and OL the Falcons have, there's no way Vick can become more disciplined, because he's running for his life too much and people are dropping passes too much. That's of course in addition to the mistakes VIck is making himself.

As much as the media spooge-fest wants to see Vick in the Super Bowl, the reality is they won't make the playoffs barring a miracle. Vick is a great show...but Atlanta is not a great team. He contributes to that, but no one can do it all by himself (OK, even with Dunn and Crumpler).

 

[ScarletBlood31]

I think Vick is grossly overhyped by the media and typically held to an unfair standard by fans. This thread is filled with statements about how so many NFL QBs would do better than Vick, but then Brady/Manning/Roth are typically used for comparisons.

yeah yeahh it didn't sound as good after i had said it. im gonna go ahead and delete that part, it wasn't needed.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

With a few notable exceptions - its takes 4 years to develop into a good NFL QB. Eli Manning is going through it right now. So is Vick.