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Miami (FL) Hurricanes (1926-2003)

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DaddyBigBucks said:
By "respect my decision" these kids probably mean "keep your derision to yourself, don't bring it here on twitter".

That I can certainly accept. Giving a 17 or 18 year old grief on twitter is ridiculous. And I certainly think that kids changing their minds is fine.

But calling a decision a commitment and then changing that decision shows one of two things:
  1. You don't know what the word "commitment" means, or
  2. You are the one who did not respect your decision. When people give you grief about that, they are expressing that they don't like your decision, and they're doing so in a way that is appalling and disgusting. They are not disrespecting your decision. You did that.
I would say, "for 18 year olds, that's fine", but I made a verbal commitment to a recruiter (Air Force) at that age. I remember what it's like to make and keep commitments at that age. Again... No one thinks these kids should be held to verbal commitments. But their parents really should teach them what that word means (and that keeping commitments has value).
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I'm saying this without knowing it for sure, but I get the feeling that a lot of coaching staffs pressure kids to commit before they're ready as well. Maybe it's time to rebrand the process from "verbal commitment" to something else.
 
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Abenaki said:
I'm saying this without knowing it for sure, but I get the feeling that a lot of coaching staffs pressure kids to commit before they're ready as well. Maybe it's time to rebrand the process from "verbal commitment" to something else.
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That's definitely a part of it. Unfortunately, they use the word "commitment" in pressuring them, so I don't think that word is going anywhere. It will continue to be used by those who follow recruiting.

And military recruiters pressure high-school kids to commit before they're ready. It happened to me. That's why I say I think kids should be expected to withstand that pressure and tell someone "no" when the time comes.

As I hinted at before, to me this falls on the parents. But it's more than what I said before... but not really. Part of what teaching them what commitment means is letting them know they should not make a commitment until they have enough information to make it. And a HUGE part of that is telling your teenager that there is a gigantic world full of information that they have never heard, much of which might be relevant to your next decision. This is something that ALL parents should teach their children. The only difference for the parents of elite athletes is that their ability to impart those lessons will have an impact that could reach into the tens of millions of dollars in the next decade. For other parents, the upshot is just as important though. Commitment can ruin your life if you make one without all of the requisite knowledge. Ask any man who has married the wrong woman.
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
I would say, "for 18 year olds, that's fine", but I made a verbal commitment to a recruiter (Air Force) at that age. I remember what it's like to make and keep commitments at that age. Again... No one thinks these kids should be held to verbal commitments. But their parents really should teach them what that word means (and that keeping commitments has value).
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Thank you for your service - it is Veteran's Day after all. And same to all of the other veteran's out there.
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
By "respect my decision" these kids probably mean "keep your derision to yourself, don't bring it here on twitter".

That I can certainly accept. Giving a 17 or 18 year old grief on twitter is ridiculous. And I certainly think that kids changing their minds is fine.

But calling a decision a commitment and then changing that decision shows one of two things:
  1. You don't know what the word "commitment" means, or
  2. You are the one who did not respect your decision. When people give you grief about that, they are expressing that they don't like your decision, and they're doing so in a way that is appalling and disgusting. They are not disrespecting your decision. You did that.
I would say, "for 18 year olds, that's fine", but I made a verbal commitment to a recruiter (Air Force) at that age. I remember what it's like to make and keep commitments at that age. Again... No one thinks these kids should be held to verbal commitments. But their parents really should teach them what that word means (and that keeping commitments has value).
Click to expand...
It's kind of hard to take the word "commitment" seriously in the context of CFB though. Because coaches are committed to their teams all the time, and then leave for better jobs. So, IMO, these coaches need to be held to even higher standards than the kids. And I think the kids are just following from what they see these coaches do. I'm sure if Ryan Day left the team, and OSU hired Fickell, we wouldn't talk negatively about how Fickell didn't fulfill his commitment to UC(the same way that LSU has no problem with Kelly taking his commitment to them over ND, or Riley to USC over his commitment to OU, etc)...

And btw, thank you for your service today
 
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pnuts34 said:
It's kind of hard to take the word "commitment" seriously in the context of CFB though. Because coaches are committed to their teams all the time, and then leave for better jobs. So, IMO, these coaches need to be held to even higher standards than the kids. And I think the kids are just following from what they see these coaches do. I'm sure if Ryan Day left the team, and OSU hired Fickell, we wouldn't talk negatively about how Fickell didn't fulfill his commitment to UC(the same way that LSU has no problem with Kelly taking his commitment to them over ND, or Riley to USC over his commitment to OU, etc)...

And btw, thank you for your service today
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Thanks

But I think we're talking apples and suspension bridges here.

A coach's "commitment" to a school is in writing and there are specific provisions in the contract for what happens when the coach leaves. When you have provisions for who compensates whom and by how much when X happens, then NEITHER party is making a commitment that X will not happen. It is simply a provision in a contract. A provision in a contract is there because whatever it's making provision for is an acknowledged possibility.

And no... I don't really buy that kids are just following the examples of the coaches. Partly because of the above, coaches have provisions in contracts for what happens when they leave which explicitly means they have NOT made any such commitment, but mostly because I don't think the kids are that affected by the behavior of coaches. If anything, living in a world where they've seen many decommitments by other players during their brief lives MIGHT have a SMALL affect on them. But seeing coaches get school X to pay school Y the buyout in a contract? No... I don't see how that has any affect on them at all.

To reiterate, my real point here is about the kid's relationship with his parents, not his relationship with the school. I would prefer @Abenaki 's solution... Let's just stop calling their verbal decision a commitment because the kids clearly haven't been taught what the word means or it's value, so perhaps we should start acting like WE know what the word means and only refer to a kid's commitment in retrospect, when he has proven it was a commitment by signing. I know that won't happen though. People will continue to use the word. And I will continue to ignore the whole recruiting world 99% of the time.
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:
Thanks

But I think we're talking apples and suspension bridges here.

A coach's "commitment" to a school is in writing and there are specific provisions in the contract for what happens when the coach leaves. When you have provisions for who compensates whom and by how much when X happens, then NEITHER party is making a commitment that X will not happen. It is simply a provision in a contract. A provision in a contract is there because whatever it's making provision for is an acknowledged possibility.

And no... I don't really buy that kids are just following the examples of the coaches. Partly because of the above, coaches have provisions in contracts for what happens when they leave which explicitly means they have NOT made any such commitment, but mostly because I don't think the kids are that affected by the behavior of coaches. If anything, living in a world where they've seen many decommitments by other players during their brief lives MIGHT have a SMALL affect on them. But seeing coaches get school X to pay school Y the buyout in a contract? No... I don't see how that has any affect on them at all.

To reiterate, my real point here is about the kid's relationship with his parents, not his relationship with the school. I would prefer @Abenaki 's solution... Let's just stop calling their verbal decision a commitment because the kids clearly haven't been taught what the word means or it's value, so perhaps we should start acting like WE know what the word means and only refer to a kid's commitment in retrospect, when he has proven it was a commitment by signing. I know that won't happen though. People will continue to use the word. And I will continue to ignore the whole recruiting world 99% of the time.
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I find it laughable that we hold kids to a higher standard than adults. And if kids aren't going to colleges based on the coach, then what entices kids from all over the country to attend school in small rural college towns throughout the country, and a number of them decommit when the HC leaves? If you look at interviews, kids say all of the time "I want to play for Coach Hartline, or Coach Saban, or Coach Riley, etc". The coaches definitely have an affect, when a kid sees a grown adult willing to leave when a better opportunity arises, why shouldn't he? Manny Diaz was at Temple barely a month before he left them high and dry for Miami. And this off season when so many coaching vacancies are filled by coaches still currently under contract, the coaches will like always get a pass, but a kid who flips is seen as not knowing what a commitment is. I guess the coaches' parents also need to teach them what the word means...
 
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pnuts34 said:
I find it laughable that we hold kids to a higher standard than adults. And if kids aren't going to colleges based on the coach, then what entices kids from all over the country to attend school in small rural college towns throughout the country, and a number of them decommit when the HC leaves? If you look at interviews, kids say all of the time "I want to play for Coach Hartline, or Coach Saban, or Coach Riley, etc". The coaches definitely have an affect, when a kid sees a grown adult willing to leave when a better opportunity arises, why shouldn't he? Manny Diaz was at Temple barely a month before he left them high and dry for Miami. And this off season when so many coaching vacancies are filled by coaches still currently under contract, the coaches will like always get a pass, but a kid who flips is seen as not knowing what a commitment is. I guess the coaches' parents also need to teach them what the word means...
Click to expand...

I see you’re not going to address my primary point

consider the matter dropped
 
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