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"LLLLLLL"oyd Carr (officialllllll thread)

Lloyd Carr - Love him or hate him?

  • Love Him

    Votes: 64 21.1%
  • Hate him

    Votes: 84 27.7%
  • Stupidest poll ever

    Votes: 155 51.2%

  • Total voters
    303
Even if a ref is stone blind, as long as he gets the calls right it doesn't really matter how he does it. The point is that even with no binocular depth perception and a limited field of vision he gets the job done better than most of his colleagues. It may defy all logic but the evidence points to him performing at a high level. You can argue the possible disadvantages all you want but unless you can find specific fault with his performance than there are no grounds to fire him. That is the entire point of the federal disabilities act. Bucklion has been nailing this one.
I'd also like to point out that the zebras have specific assignments so his reduced field of vision may not play as big a role as one would initially think (just throwing that out there; I could be wrong).
All the arguments against Mr. Filson are coming from personal incredulity. It may be hard to believe but it would seem that being a cyclops didn't prevent him from calling games accurately.
 
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I'm wondering how many of the folks thinking that someone with one eye doesn't belong on the football field are aware of Fred Arbanas. He was an All-Star TE in the old AFL a couple of times after he lost vision in one eye.

From wikipedia:

Fred Arbanas (born January 14, 1939, in Detroit, Michigan) was an American college and professional football player from Michigan State University. Fred Arbanas was considered by many to be the perfect tight end, partly because of his 6-foot-3 frame and 240 pounds (109 kg) of chiseled muscle. Drafted by the American Football League's Dallas Texans (later the Kansas City Chiefs) in 1962, Arbanas was an American Football League All-Star in 1962, '63, '64, '65, and '67. Because of his heart and perseverance, he was the driving force behind one of the greatest teams in the history of the American Football League.

He was the AFL's prototype tight end. His 198 receptions and 3,101 receiving yards were Chiefs records for a tight end until they were broken by Tony Gonzalez. In 1964 he lost vision in one of his eyes when he was attacked, but he rebounded to give the Chiefs six more solid years.
Arbanas starred for two Chiefs Super Bowl teams, and one World Championship team, and used the playing field to write a legacy for the AFL. "I remember when the Chiefs played the Chicago Bears the summer after the loss to Green Bay in the first Super Bowl," team owner Lamar Hunt said. "We won the pre-season game 66-24, but there was a lot at stake in that game. I heard Fred say that was his most memorable game, and I feel the same way."

His talents would eventually earn a spot on the All-time All-AFL Team.
Fred currently lives with his wife Sharon Arbanas in Lee's Summit, Missouri. He has four children and eight grandchildren. Fred serves on the Jackson County legislation in Kansas City, Missouri. He has also had a golf course named after him. The Fred Arbanas Golf Course at Longview Lake is a favorite for many Kansas City golfers.
 
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Reading back through this, I'm pretty sure this thread was supposed to be a joke at IVoyd's expense. Instead of turning this into the usual semantics debate, I'm just going to sit back and be amused by the fact that:

LLLLoyd Carr went completely out of his way to get a man who discovered how to be extremely successful while coping with a disability fired because he was disabled.

In a perfect world, Carr would find himself with 1 eye and no job. At least Tressel is taking care of the no job part; the 1 eye part, anbody? :susp:
 
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http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2525351

Partially blind official wants job back
By Wayne Drehs
ESPN.com


Jim Filson didn't give up his dream of working as a Big Ten football official despite losing sight in his right eye after an accident six years ago.

Supported by Dave Parry, the Big Ten's supervisor of officials, Filson, an eight-year conference veteran, returned to the field the fall after the accident and officiated the next five seasons. He said he received higher performance ratings with one eye than he did with two, and earned the prestigious postseason assignment of working an Orange Bowl.

But last spring, the Big Ten fired him. In a lawsuit filed Monday in the Northern District of Illinois, Filson claimed under the American Disabilities Act that the decision was made strictly on the basis that he has vision in only one eye.

Filson said in the suit that Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delaney fired him after Michigan coach Lloyd Carr complained that Filson was officiating with one eye.

"Mr. Delaney's perceptions about me are false," Filson said in a statement to the Illinois Department of Human Rights. "I fully meet all of the physical requirements of the job, as was exhibited by my very successful performance on the field in the five years after my accident and before my termination."

Since the suit was filed, the officiating community has been abuzz. Discussions have centered on three main topics:

• Do officials, who have been seen by conferences as independent contractors, have the same rights as employees?
• What physical requirements must a person meet to be an official?
• Does a league or conference have any right to enforce those requirements?

"This is kind of a burgeoning problem," said attorney Alan S. Goldberger, who advises the 16,000-member National Association of Sports Officials. "It's something nobody really wants to touch because it's extremely awkward.

"Officials are expected, despite the 'Three Blind Mice' songs and everything, to have good eyesight, to be able to run fast, and to maintain an athletic posture. But what do you do when someone shows up in a wheelchair and says they want to be a Big Ten referee? You can't turn them away. It's a challenge. You need to accommodate people."

Filson worked in the Big Ten for eight seasons before he fell and hit his right eye on the corner of a table in an accident in March 2000. He permanently lost his vision in the eye. In the lawsuit, Filson said he informed Parry with the Big Ten about the accident and subsequent surgery to have his eye removed and a prosthetic put in its place. The suit said Parry encouraged him to try to return to the field.

After consulting with several medical experts and working spring and summer basketball and football games to test his vision, the suit said, Filson decided he was able to officiate. He returned to officiating that fall, the suit said, with Parry's approval and understanding of Filson's situation.

Filson's suit said he spent the next five seasons officiating without incident and that his reviews were "substantially better" in the five seasons with one eye than they were in the eight seasons when he had both.

Before the spring of 2005, the suit said, a reporter informed Michigan's Carr that Filson was officiating with one eye. Carr complained to Delaney, the Big Ten Commissioner, the suit said. Without any vision test or medical exam or formal meeting, the suit said, Delaney told Parry to fire Filson. The official was dismissed May 3, 2005.

In a subsequent meeting with Filson, Delaney explained the action because Filson did not "have two eyes" and failed to meet the "minimum physical requirements" of the job, the suit said. Delaney said that if Filson missed a judgment call and the public or coaches knew the official had only one eye, he would have "hell to pay."

The Big Ten Conference, Delaney and Parry declined to comment, citing the pending lawsuit. Filson and his attorney declined to comment, saying only that they stood by the allegations.

Carr also declined to comment.

The case is being watched. Tommy Hunt, who officiated in the ACC for 26 years and is now the league's Coordinator of Football Officials, referred to it as "a strange one."

"I hate to say it, but there are two things you have to be able to do in officiating: You have to be able to move and you have to be able to see," he said. "But if the guy is performing on the field, I'm not sure if the conference is going to have much of an argument, even if he has only one eye."

There is legal precedent here. In 1996, Lorenzo Clemons sued the Big Ten claiming he was wrongfully dismissed "due to a perceived disability of obesity," and because he is black. Clemons also sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act. He lost the case.

"But with me, they had the ratings," Clemons said this week. "They consistently gave me lower ratings all along, knowing what they were going to do with me. But with Jimmy, he's always had high ratings. I mean, if he was really that bad, then why didn't they do this earlier? And why did they send him to an Orange Bowl?"

Clemons worked with Filson in the Gateway Conference and in the Big Ten. After hearing about Filson's injury, Clemons specifically watched the official's games on television to see how he was making due with one eye.

"He looked like he was doing everything he was supposed to do," Clemons said. "You couldn't see any difference in his officiating abilities from before the accident to after."

In 2003, a deaf basketball official, Marsha Wetzel, sued the Eastern College Athletic Conference, contending the league failed to provide her the same opportunity to participate that was afforded others.

Also suing under the ADA, Wetzel won her case and the league was forced to have sign-language interpreters and other aids available to her for meetings, training seminars and games.

Goldberger, the lawyer who advises the sports officials association, said: "If you employ officials such as a conference might, you say this person is deaf, this person has one eye, this person has a muscular disorder so he or she is disqualified. That doesn't fly anymore."

Also at issue are the rights of individual referees. Most conferences view officials as independent contractors and pay them about $750 a game to work 12 weekends a year. Officials see themselves as employees and thus eligible for the same rights.

For Filson's case to fit under ADA Title I, which his geared toward employee rights, Filson's attorney will need to establish that he was a Big Ten employee and not an independent contractor. If his lawyer can't, Filson also has filed under ADA Title III, which states that the Big Ten is a "public accommodation" and needs to hire and fire people without discriminating.

"The Big Ten isn't going to be able to just walk away from this," Goldberger said. "If everything in this lawsuit is true -- and remember we've only heard half of the story so far -- but if everything is true, the Big Ten doesn't look like it has a whole lot of wiggle room here."

Filson's lawsuit seeks his reinstatement, back pay from games he missed, damages for emotional distress and lawyer fees. If he wins, could he return to the field knowing every move would be scrutinized?

"God willing I hope he continues," Goldberger said. "But it will be difficult. It will be just another bit of ammo to use when he misses a call."

Clemons, the former Big Ten official, doesn't think it would be a problem, either with the fans or between the lines.

"Knowing Jimmy, if he had any doubts about himself he wouldn't do it," Clemons said. "He would have said, 'It's not working, I'm just going to retire.' But he didn't do that. This just comes down to mechanics. If a person knows their mechanics, they can do it with one eye. All you have to do is be in position to make the call."
 
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That a man with one good eye has inferior vision to a man with two good eyes is not an assumption, it's fact.

Not exactly. It's a relatively certain fact that the same man would have better vision with two eyes than one. However, a man with one eye could certainly have better vision for certain applications than another man with two eyes, especially if other factors (experience, spatial reasoning, etc) come into play.

Against the averages, sure, but not impossible.

Maybe we could just employ penalty-sniffing dogs instead of refs?
 
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Maybe we could just employ penalty-sniffing dogs instead of refs?

I've only heard of that in calling balls and strikes ...

dog_called_pitch.jpg
 
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no probem

My father had one eye from 1934 until his death last year. He had no problem driving - never had an accident until his Alzheimer's kicked in. I never recalled him having a problem playing baseball in the yard with us kids. As with the loss of one sense, wherein the other four senses are elevated to compensate, your brain can process depth perception with one eye after a period of adjustment. No, he couldn't use a View Master, but I don't know any other way he was impaired.

I don't get it - Lloyd is emotionally impaired and HE"S allowed to keep HIS job!!!

One Eye Power!!!!
 
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ESPN

Michigan coach keeps doing what he wants to do

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By Gene Wojciechowski
ESPN.com
Archive
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<!-- begin text11 div --><!-- begin leftcol --> <!-- template inline --> CHICAGO -- I have some bad news for the webmasters of FireLloydCarr.com, FireLloydCarrNow.com, FireLloydandTommy.blogspot.com: Carr isn't going anywhere, except to work tomorrow. He'd rather dot the i on Script Ohio than walk away -- or be told to walk away -- from the only college head coaching job he has ever known.
At least one of his Big Ten peers, Minnesota's Glen Mason, says he's never seen Carr so stressed out. But the reporters who cover Michigan football on a daily basis say Carr has been his usual cheery preseason self. It isn't until the Wolverines begin training camp and inch closer to their season opener that Carr goes into lockdown mode. That's when you need Van Helsing.
ncf_g_carr_275.jpg

Tom Pidgeon/Getty Images
Michigan players stand behind Lloyd Carr. Some of his critics don't.


The Carr who arrived fashionably late for the league's annual interview sessions didn't look stressed out to me. He sipped on a cup of Starbucks, apologized for not wearing a tie with his navy blue suit, and only once stared a small hole into the forehead of a Detroit reporter who asked him a question (legitimate, by the way) that Carr didn't like. It wasn't the best 90 minutes of his life, but it beat cleaning the basement.
Michigan is only seven months removed from its lowest win total and first unranked season since 1984. Included in that 7-5 record is the Alamo Bowl loss to unranked Nebraska (in Carr's defense, the crew working the game couldn't have officiated a Punt, Pass and Kick competition), and yet another defeat to Mr. Sweater-Vest, Ohio State's Jim Tressel.
Wolverine followers maybe could have chugged enough Pepto Bismol to stomach the five losses, but only if one of those defeats hadn't been administered by the despised Buckeyes. Carr is now 1-4 against Tressel, which explains why some of these U-of-M bloggers need distemper shots.
Carr feels your pain. He lives it. Hears it. He just doesn't want to see it.
After reading a book by University of Southern California president Steven B. Sample (he read a Pac-10 author?), "The Contrarian's Guide To Leadership," Carr decided to quit looking at newspapers for six months. He still doesn't read them, except on Sundays -- and only then to have a working knowledge of world events. Otherwise, he depends on selected press clippings provided to him by the school's sports information department.
Wait. There is one writer Carr does read on a regular basis: Rudyard Kipling. As he gets hammered in chat room after chat room, in the Letters to the Editor, in blogs, in his own Big House, Carr leans on those opening lines of Kipling's poem, "If."
  • "If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too."
Michigan Men (and Women) are blaming Carr for all sorts of things these days. He doesn't beat Ohio State enough (6-5 overall). He doesn't win national championships enough (one title, 1997). He doesn't win bowl games enough (5-6, including losses in four of his last five postseason games). And because of those numbers, as well as last year's mess, Carr's game-day wardrobe now includes asbestos khakis.
This isn't entirely new. Carr has butt burns from previous turns on the hot seat. But another loss to the Buckeyes, or another win total in the mid-single digits, or another year out of the top 25 and Carr will need more than a fireproof wardrobe. It doesn't seem to matter that he's averaged more than nine wins per season, that he's won 75 percent of his games, that his players usually leave Ann Arbor carrying footballs and diplomas.
w_carr_65.jpg
"I'm going to do what I want to do. The hell with anybody else, what they think. So that's where it all begins with me. I love the game. I love the competition. I love the relationship with the players and the ability to have some kind of positive impact as they try to pursue a degree and play this game." Lloyd Carr

So I ask him why he still coaches. Why endure the FireLloyd.coms, the criticism, the expectations, the pressure?
"I will say this to you," says Carr in a slow, measured, serious tone, "first of all, I have a choice that I can do what I want to do with my life. So that's where I begin. I'm going to do what I want to do. The hell with anybody else, what they think. So that's where it all begins with me. I love the game. I love the competition. I love the relationship with the players and the ability to have some kind of positive impact as they try to pursue a degree and play this game.
"So, I don't know if that answers your question."
Answer it? In 64 seconds' time -- which is how long it took Carr to choose those words -- the Michigan coach did what any coach worth his rollover contract should do: He made allowances for his critics' doubting, and then he told them to stick it.
You can't coach in fear. You can't obsess about what might happen. If Carr is going to oversee the winningest Division I-A football program in history, then he's going to do it on his terms, not yours. You got a problem with that? Tough.
"You don't have much time to dwell on the past in this business," he says.
Several days after Carr was named interim coach in May 1996, the legendary Bo Schembechler, who hired Carr as his assistant 16 years earlier, stopped by the football offices.
"Can I talk to you for a minute?" Schembechler said.
Carr invited him in.
"Look," said the former Michigan coach, "there's going to be times when you doubt yourself. The reason I know that is that I had doubts about myself. What I want to tell you is this: When you have those doubts, just get rid of them. You're prepared. You know what it takes. Just go do it."
The words still resonate with Carr.
"Here's the greatest football coach ever to coach at Michigan, and one of the greatest coaches that ever coached the game -- and he's telling me he had doubts," says Carr.
Carr has had them too. Still does. He's just not going to let you or his team see them.
"When you lose a game, it's like a black cloud," he says. "God, are we ever going to win another game?"
Nobody understands the mentality of Michigan fans better than Carr. This will be his 27th season in Ann Arbor, so he's seen even the great Schembechler get ripped. Now it's his turn, which causes his players to do a slow burn.
"Coach Carr, all he does, he coaches," says senior defensive end LaMarr Woodley. "He can't go out there and play football for us."
"He's one of the smartest men I know," says Jake Long, a senior offensive tackle. "He'll give you the coat off his back."
They see this Carr; we don't. We don't see the Carr who treats his former players like family, swapping stories over a cold brew. We don't see the Carr who sends personalized notes to retiring Big Ten officials, thanking them for their years of service.
"This I can guarantee you," says Dave Parry, the league's supervisor of officials. "He cares deeply about the game, the integrity of the game and the character of the game. That is a fact."
It is also fact that 7-5 at a place such as Michigan can cause severe discomfort. Maybe that's why, when asked what he would tell a new DI-A coach these days, Carr didn't hesitate.
"First of all, you understand you have to win if you want to stay," he says. "That's fair. That's the way it should be."
Carr wants to stay. Now, despite that 102-34 record at Michigan, he still has to prove he deserves to stay.
Nothing fair about that.
Gene Wojciechowski is the senior national columnist for ESPN.com. You can contact him at [email protected].
 
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