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DaytonBuck

I've always liked them
2 days ago in 1876 Mr. Custer and his officer corp met their maker. I always respected their command as they met their maker. Custer's various troupes formed up on a hill and met their fate.

The true hero's of this country are the ones who met their maker in the hills of south dakota
 
DaytonBuck;1723424; said:
2 days ago in 1876 Mr. Custer and his officer corp met their maker. I always respected their command as they met their maker. Custer's various troupes formed up on a hill and met their fate.

The true hero's of this country are the ones who met their maker in the hills of south dakota

Custer's rank exceeded his grasp. He got a lot of good soldiers killed.
 
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Custer's wife went to an artist to get a painting done of her husband's last thoughts.

When she went to pick up the painting after it was finished, she was shocked at what she saw, and asked the artist....."I asked for a painting of my husband's last thoughts, and you give me a painting of cows with halos and Indians making love??"

He responded, "Mrs. Custer, those were your husband's last thoughts." "Holy Cow, look at all those fuckin Indians"

:biggrin:
 
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BuckeyeMike80;1723474; said:
Custer's rank exceeded his grasp. He got a lot of good soldiers killed.

Are you trying to say a better commander wouldn't have left gatling guns behind, not divided his force, or let his arrogance allow him to act without having gotten reliable intelligence info?

IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL ME?

If so, I agree.
 
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Taosman;1723502; said:
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy).

Even Gatling guns wouldn't have saved his ass.

Quite likely, but they wouldn't have hurt either. (And, I think there was a lack of technological hubris)
 
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"There were 2,361 cartridges, cases and bullets recovered from the entire battlefield, which reportedly came from 45 different firearms types (including the Army Springfields and Colts, of course) and represented at least 371 individual guns. The evidence indicated that the Indians used Sharps, Smith & Wessons, Evans, Henrys, Winchesters, Remingtons, Ballards, Maynards, Starrs, Spencers, Enfields and Forehand & Wadworths, as well as Colts and Springfields of other calibers. There was evidence of 69 individual Army Springfields on Custer's Field (the square-mile section where Custer's five companies died), but there was also evidence of 62 Indian .44-caliber Henry repeaters and 27 Sharps .50-caliber weapons. In all, on Custer's Field there was evidence of at least 134 Indian firearms versus 81 for the soldiers. It appears that the Army was outgunned as well as outnumbered."
http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-little-bighorn-were-the-weapons-the-deciding-factor.htm
 
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Taosman;1723502; said:
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy).

Even Gatling guns wouldn't have saved his ass.

That's one of the dumbest [censored]ing things you've ever posted, and that's saying something. Do yourself a favor and not comment on things you know nothing about. Not that it has ever stopped you before.
 
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DaytonBuck;1723424; said:
2 days ago in 1876 Mr. Custer and his officer corp met their maker. I always respected their command as they met their maker. Custer's various troupes formed up on a hill and met their fate.

The true hero's of this country are the ones who met their maker in the hills of south dakota
No. They were a disorganized clusterfuck of an attack, with Maj. Reno losing his grip on command when his Indian scout's brains were splattered on his face, Reno telling the troops on his "prong" of the attack to dismount and mount and dismount until they basically ran away in panic to save their lives at the Indian Village being chased and pulled off their horses. Had he not met up with the smarter Benteen and his group won high ground after killing their horses for breastworks they all would have died too.

Meanwhile, Custer's group was surrounded and killed while they ran - or stayed in small groups and fought, and - according to eye witnesses - blew their own brains out instead of fighting to avoid being caught by the Sioux and Cheyenne and tortured.

One black soldier in particular was treated with respect by the Sioux - the bugler, his horn was all bent up from being used as a weapon in hand to hand in his final moments. Miles Keough's men were said to have stood their ground while many other men threw away their weapons and ran, or in one instance gave their gun to an astonished Sioux warrior. The Indians in that fight had little to say in favor of the way the battle was fought by the 7th. Their culture valued bravery, and the fact that many of the soldiers threw down their guns was considered cowardly. They said the soldiers' horses were so tired that they were useless to the 7th.

Also, the 7th was comprised of anything but professionals. At various times half of the 7th would desert, they called it "the big bounce", and the troop enlisted men would join to get through the winter with food and shelter, and then leave for the gold fields or other pursuits. Many were Irish immigrants, and the one man from Custer's command sent by Custer to get ammo from the pack train spoke (an Italian) such bad English that Custer had to write it out on paper instead of relying on his ability to communicate English. It was not the disciplined troops of movie and TV, and Custer wanted glory more than he wanted to follow orders.

They were put in a bad way by Custer, who attacked after dividing his forces. Had they stayed together that amount of firepower would not have been overwhelmed. When he divided his force into three parts he came close to dooming them all. And it is possible that he was shot before all of the "Last Stand" happened, as he tried to cross the Little Big Horn river with his troops - which resulted in more panic from the start.

Tom Custer was a hero - and was awarded TWO Medals Of Honor in the War Between the States. Custer was absolutely personally brave, and I am not saying he was not, but whatever his strengths as a commander, they were not on display on that day on the plains.


While new evidence was come out since its publication, I cannot praise the book "Son of the Morning Star" by Evan Connell more highly. Great book about Custer and his troops, filled with the type of stuff that is too incredible to be made up, and giving a real idea of what it was like to live in those times. Ambrose wrote a good book about the parallel careers and lives of Crazy Horse and Custer. That is a good one too.
 
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The KSB;1723531; said:
That's one of the dumbest [censored]ing things you've ever posted, and that's saying something. Do yourself a favor and not comment on things you know nothing about. Not that it has ever stopped you before.


As has historically been pointed out, Custer's arrogance cost him and most of his command. The real experts have pointed this out numerous times.

Time to get over juvenile animosity and move on.
 
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Gatling guns aside, he was offered and turned down the use of other Cavalry troops (maybe the 2nd Cavalry, but I forget) so that his 7th could get all of the "glory" from the victory. More troops and guns would have been useful. He supposedly told his Crow scouts that he was going to be the new Great White Father when he won the battle, and the Democratic Convention was going on at the time of the Battle and for four days afterward. It is possible that a glorious victory could have led to his being nominated - or if if not replacing Tilden, then as his VP. Even if Custer could not have won, that does not mean that Custer did not think he could win. He thought greatly of himself and his destiny.
 
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