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- Thread starter NJ-Buckeye
- Start date
I think yesterday's Golden State loss was a punch to their solar plexus. I really think the Warrior's were crushed by their loss way more than the Cavs were by their Game 1 loss. The aura of home invincibility for Golden State has been grabbed around the throat, slammed to the ground, and jump-stomped on. LeBron has been around way too long and is way too resilient. Even if the Cavs only split at home in Games 4 and 5, I still think it's quite possible for them to win Game 6 at home while getting either Game 5 or 7 at Golden State. And if the Cavs happen to sweep Games 3 and 4, series over...
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BuckeyeMafia
A Leaf on the Wind
I like what you're saying, but Dwyane Wade is one of the five best SGs of all-time. I think his prime probably ended during Miami's last championship win. He was a shadow of himself against the Spurs last year, but Wade was a legitimate 1B option against Dallas and OKC.
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I don't disagree. After last night, I'm a firm believer that anybody with LeBald and a couple of complimentary pieces has a real chance in a 7 game series. Dellavedova's defense is the real wild card. If his defense can seriously limit Curry near what it did last night, I might even say the Cavs are favorites in my mind.
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Bottom-line, this team, that lost it's 2nd or 3rd best player three series ago, is an OT meltdown away from going back to the Q with a 2-0 advantage...against a team that lost 2 home games all year. If they had Kyrie and Love, you cannot convince me they don't take this series in a sweep.
If Love does indeed come back, they should be prohibitive favorites next season, assuming Kyrie can stay healthy...and at this point, that's a pretty big "if." They have been playing obscenely good basketball since they bottomed out at 19-20.
If Love does indeed come back, they should be prohibitive favorites next season, assuming Kyrie can stay healthy...and at this point, that's a pretty big "if." They have been playing obscenely good basketball since they bottomed out at 19-20.
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Buckeye737
Heisman
My hope is that they keep this year's roster with an additional bench player or two. They should be able to win 60 games while still keeping all of the key cogs well-rested. If someone like Kyrie is having some nagging injuries, let him take a couple weeks off. Unlike this past season, we'll know that this team can still be very competitive without the stars playing.
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Wade and Bosch were great players... and Wade is almost certainly a HoFer. But I can't imagine comparing end-of-career Wade to Pippen. Hell, I doubt there's even a good comparison in Wade's prime. Pippen was pretty amazing even in HoF company and that partnership lasted 10 seasons.
Same with Kyrie and Love at this juncture.
Obviously the original #23 in his prime would have won championships with Miami too... but I doubt MJ would've fared any better than James has in Cleveland.
Also pedantic but LBJ had that opportunity in 2007 as well.
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LeBron is amazing. I dare anyone to go back through this thread and question that. Mostly because by the time you back and inevitably find it, I have already won.
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi
That rating has LeBald 6th and Wade at 13th with Bosh as 81.
For comparison, it has Jordan at 1, Pippen at 4 and Rodman (the next highest Bull I could find from either 3-peat) at 47.
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UpNorth_Buckeye
Assistant Coach
I was referring to the part where you said you think MJ wouldn't have taken LeBron's teams as far, and specifically stating that it isn't like LeBron hasn't won it all. So I was looking at LeBron's 2 championships, and they clearly weren't teams that were LeBron plus fillers like they are this Finals. You can say Wade was not as good as Pippen, and you probably are right but Wade is still a future HoFer. And at the same time Bosch was better than MJ's 3rd best player most seasons (I'd probably go Rodman for at least part of the second three-peat, but Bosch over any first three-peat third best player). And think of just how outrageous MJ's run was. Even if he had Pippen, he still won 6 titles in an 8 year span, and if he didn't get bored and wanted to try baseball he easily could have won 8 titles IN A ROW. That's stupid, regardless of surrounding cast. And even his second retirement he was still one of the elite players in the league. I mean shit the dude won MVP his last year (ignoring Washington). That Bulls team was probably done, but just stating that he was dominating the league up until he didn't feel like it. He Jerry Seinfeld'd the NBA. He didn't get passed up, he just retired with probably a few great years left and obviously a couple more very good ones after that (still was solid when playing for the Wizards). So I guess that's a long way of saying that I think you've somehow managed to underrate MJ. I mean could he put up triple doubles at the rate LBJ does if he was forced to? Probably not. But the dude just fucking wins. I could make an argument, and one that I believe to be true, that Jordan wins the championship all 4 years at Miami. But I will say that at the same time I don't think he could have won it all with Cleveland's talent either that LBJ up until this year, which he doesn't have for the Finals. This may be the only season that will convince people that MAYBE LBJ is better than MJ, since MJ didn't win with scrubs. But the question of do I think he could if needed to when he was in his prime like LBJ is? Yes, I do.
Also BTW I ignored 2007 because he didn't win it all. I was trying to highlight seasons of winning it all, not deep playoff runs. So my comment was that he never won in the past without great teammates, and in theory he won't win in the future without great teammates if Kyrie+Love are back. So therefore this is most likely his only shot to do so before he's "forced" to win it all with talent around him.
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AND there is this. The fact Cleveland is even still fighting without two verified All-Stars out is ridiculous. I don't think Love will be back but who gives a shit (other than individuals like myself who did not think that 1 year of him was worth Wiggins, but I digress). I won't bother looking through every post but what if even one of Thompson or Curry go down? The series is over, nobody even questions it. I almost consider it conceded that with a full lineup, the Cavs pull Golden States' pants down in 4 games. We are competing despite the injuries, but losing those guys is a pretty big deal.
But somehow, sans V, Love, and Kyrie, we are still fighting this and refusing to go away. Maybe I am a naive Cavs backer, but I just do not get the same feeling I got the last few playoff series we were in. I cannot even jinx the so-called "Cleveland Curse" so I am not too worried there. I have faith in this team.
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shiloh
Heisman
We do know what Jordan did w/out talent ... and Phil Jackson.
84/85 38-44
85/86 30-52
86/87 40-42
87/88 50-32
88/89 47-35
89/90 55-27
btw, the Bulls made the playoffs every year even when they won 38 and 30. Also, Pippen arrived in 87/88.
Trivia: 1988/1989, the year Jordon hit the shot over Ehlo to eliminate the Cavs in the playoffs, the Cavs played the Bulls 6 times including the last game of the regular season and the Cavs won all 6. And in the last game IIRC, Wilkens didn't play 4 starters. As it turned out, maybe Lenny should have played all the starters and blown MJ and his Bulls off the floor, 'cause a couple days later they proceeded to lose 3 of 5 and that was that.
Ironically, Doug Collins was fired after the '89 playoffs.
An interesting stat would be to compare MJ and LeBron minutes played per game in the regular season and playoffs and of course Jordan went to the NBA after his Junior season and LeBron came right out of hs to the NBA, so LeBron has a lot more wear and tear on his body now, compared to Jordan at the same age.
Plus Jordan missed most of his second year due to injury.
>
Wasn't a diehard fan back in '89, but I did watch that last game as neither team seemed very interested as they knew they would play each other in the playoffs in a couple days.
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