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Lebron James (Los Angeles Lakers)

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jimotis4heisman;1833200; said:
YouTube - ESPN - LeBron James' Football Commercial

you think state farm new he was going to miami so they picked the dolphins? how odd/humorous to look back on something like that...
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Man, I miss the days when Lebron was in Cleveland. Hate the guy now, but really did enjoy his time here. Just wish his public image wasn't a big illusion. Really thought he was one of the "different" superstars. Oh well, back to the NBA I was used to before he was a Cav..
 
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I posted this in the Heat thread but I thought more people would see it here. I changed it a little bit for this thread because I am not trying to troll in an anti Lebron thread. I just thought this was interesting.


...With Mike Miller coming back, the Heat get even more dangerous. He will fill that Craig Hodges, John Paxson, Steve Kerr roll. You know with Wade as Jordan and Lebron as Pippen (even though Lebron is scoring more, assisting more, and getting more rebounds than Wade). This got me thinking, is Lebron the Pippen to Wade as Jordan or vice versa.

Since Lebron has had to diminish his scoring role playing with another All NBA talent, I figured I would analyze Lebron's performance Pre-Wade and Post-Wade and compare to Jordan pre-Pippen and post-Pippen. We are about 30 games into an 82 game season which I feel is a decent enough sample to see where Lebron's stats will end up this season.

MJ's first full 5 years in the league ( he missed almost an entire season in '85-86) he Averaged 33.2 points per game without a great wingman.

I am picking the 1990-91 season as Pippens first "great year". He averaged 18 pts a game that season and was his highest average of his career. He averaged 16 the previous season. I am counting 90-91 as Pippens arrival since he had two quality season back to back. The next 5 season's after Pippens "arrival" on the scene, MJ's production dropped to 30.3 points per game. So Jordan, slowed his production by 2.9 pts a game to get Scottie Pippen involved in the offense and his team improved.

Lebron Averaged 27.7 pts per game his first 7 years in the league. Since moving to Miami and getting a superstar wingman, his production has dropped to 24.5 points per game. This is a drop of 3.2 points per game compared to Jordan droping 2.9 pts per game. In other words, people critisizing Lebron for giving up his legacy to be Wade's sidekick MAY be wrong, we will see.

Both guys dropped their production by about 3 points a game to make room for a great wingman. Also, if you watch the Heat, it seems that the Heat are becoming more of Lebrons team.
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This is not meant to open up the floodgates and rehash everything that has happened since summer and not meant to debate if "he took the easy way out by joining a pseudo all star team"....just to show that so far, He is scoring more than Wade and taking more of a role and isn't just Wade' s sidekick. Also, in Wade's last 3 full seasons he averaged 28 points a game. He is aeraging 23.6 points a game this year for a drop of 4.4 points.

in conclusion, so far this year, I don't think Lebron has been a sidekick.
 
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Tlangs;1837023; said:
I posted this in the Heat thread but I thought more people would see it here. I changed it a little bit for this thread because I am not trying to troll in an anti Lebron thread. I just thought this was interesting.




This is not meant to open up the floodgates and rehash everything that has happened since summer and not meant to debate if "he took the easy way out by joining a pseudo all star team"....just to show that so far, He is scoring more than Wade and taking more of a role and isn't just Wade' s sidekick. Also, in Wade's last 3 full seasons he averaged 28 points a game. He is aeraging 23.6 points a game this year for a drop of 4.4 points.

in conclusion, so far this year, I don't think Lebron has been a sidekick.
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What you are saying is valid, but I think you're taking the "sidekick" and Scottie Pippen references too literally. LeBron is the sidekick because he left his city as a superstar to go to another superstars city. Miami is D-Wade's city and it shows up everywhere...from being in the middle of all billboard signs, to being the last introduced in Miami's starting five. It's recognized as D-Wade's team. Maybe that changes over time, but right now LeBron is the sidekick in that regard.

In terms of his ppg, LeBron just upped it by about 4 points in the last 10 days against some awful teams. I think he finishes the year around 23-24 ppg...which looks more like Scottie numbers than MJ numbers at the end of the day. LeBron is still the most talented player in the world, it's just a shame to see him sacrifice the game and turn the league into an AAU circuit. He has 11 parties set-up over the next 2 road-trips and Amar'e was actually at his Thursday night party the night before the Knicks-Heat game at MSG.

Amar'e should be knocked for attending, but more than anything it shows the attitude these guys have. I just can't picture Magic, Jordan, Barkely, or Bird attending each-others parties the night before a game.

LeBron will get his rings, but his legacy is still damaged and he'll still be remembered by basketball purists as the guy who destroyed the game. It says something when a guy as hated/polarizing as Kobe Bryant was, is now almost nationally embraced just because he plays basketball the right way.

It took this summer for many to see, including myself, just how out of control the league was in terms of competiveness and heart. As much as I've despised them through the years, guys like Kobe, Paul Pierce, KG, Tim Duncan are the last of a dying breed....

I think a Clevelander in a 5 minute video made of LeBron's return to the Q said it best..."I'm not going to apologize to LeBron for wanting to put Kobe's heart in him. I'm not going to apologize to him for wanting to put MJ's heart in him. He just doesn't understand...."
 
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exhawg;1837048; said:
but he's still and ass
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grossed%20out%20kid.jpg
 
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billmac91;1837047; said:
LeBron is the sidekick because he left his city as a superstar to go to another superstars city. Miami is D-Wade's city and it shows up everywhere...from being in the middle of all billboard signs, to being the last introduced in Miami's starting five. It's recognized as D-Wade's team. Maybe that changes over time, but right now LeBron is the sidekick in that regard.
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I agree with this point of view. I just think that on the court, Lebron is not going to be the sidekick. The only thing that can change Lebron's long term legacy is multiple championships, and I'm talking about 3 or 4, not just 2.

If he wins 1 or 2 his legacy will be the guy that bolted to an all star team to win. 30 years for now looking back at his carreer, If he wins 3+ titles, the longevity of keeping the winning going I think will outweigh "the decision".
 
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Tlangs;1837023; said:
This is not meant to open up the floodgates and rehash everything that has happened since summer and not meant to debate if "he took the easy way out by joining a pseudo all star team"....just to show that so far, He is scoring more than Wade and taking more of a role and isn't just Wade' s sidekick. Also, in Wade's last 3 full seasons he averaged 28 points a game. He is aeraging 23.6 points a game this year for a drop of 4.4 points.

in conclusion, so far this year, I don't think Lebron has been a sidekick.
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PPG this year: Wade -- 23.6, James -- 24.5
Drop from career avg: Wade -- 4.4, James 3.2

I'm not sure either of those gaps is big enough to support your claim that James hasn't been the sidekick this year.
 
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buckeyesin07;1837061; said:
PPG this year: Wade -- 23.6, James -- 24.5
Drop from career avg: Wade -- 4.4, James 3.2

I'm not sure either of those gaps is big enough to support your claim that James hasn't been the sidekick this year.
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They've taken turns as being the sidekick. To open the season, D-Wade was the "go-to-guy" and had multiple big scoring nights while LeBron scored around 18-20 ppg.

Over the 12 game win-streak, LeBron has done the bulk of the scoring and play-making. You'd assume that Miami continues with this philosophy, as it seems to be working for them. The biggest question is, how will they do once the schedule picks back up. Even against a team like New York who is well above .500, they were playing a team that doesn't play any defense. LeBron has owned those guys for 3-4 years now.

I think Dallas is an interesting game tonight, and then sometime in the near future is a decent road-trip test. I'm now interested in the All-Star voting and ego's...Bosh will do and say all of the right things publically, I think, but it's looking like he doesn't even make the squad. Top 10 player to fringe All-Star has to be hard to swallow...

And LeBron and D-Wade aren't even on the preliminary MVP lists put out by yahoo and ESPN.
 
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Tlangs;1837060; said:
I agree with this point of view. I just think that on the court, Lebron is not going to be the sidekick. The only thing that can change Lebron's long term legacy is multiple championships, and I'm talking about 3 or 4, not just 2.

If he wins 1 or 2 his legacy will be the guy that bolted to an all star team to win. 30 years for now looking back at his carreer, If he wins 3+ titles, the longevity of keeping the winning going I think will outweigh "the decision".
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I mentioned this before.... I figured Lebron would have better numbers as he is a better player and one of the two best in the world.... but its fun to call him a side kick and a bitch. Untill he is playing the Lakers down 10 with two minutes to go in game 7 of the Championship and takes over scoring 13 unanswered including a buzzer beater to seal it....he is no Jordan
 
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Tlangs;1837060; said:
I agree with this point of view. I just think that on the court, Lebron is not going to be the sidekick. The only thing that can change Lebron's long term legacy is multiple championships, and I'm talking about 3 or 4, not just 2.

If he wins 1 or 2 his legacy will be the guy that bolted to an all star team to win. 30 years for now looking back at his carreer, If he wins 3+ titles, the longevity of keeping the winning going I think will outweigh "the decision".
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I'm just not sure in regards to his "Miami Legacy". I think any titles he wins with D-wade and Bosh will be discounted by the masses. They're just doing it wrong, and it's widely accepted as that. Guys who have essentially cheated the game and themselves. If they win titles, there will certainly be a segment that says it legitimizes his "decision" but I still think a majority of the media will be in the "not impressed, this is what you're suppossed to do when you rig the league" camp.

I think there is a very real possibility in 4 years when LeBron can opt out he moves to another city...likely LA. It's such a long time away, but I think Miami will get old, playing in front of the worst fans in the NBA will get old, and the timing will be perfect with Kobe's exit and LA needing another superstar to keep championship competing teams alive. I can very easily see a scenario similar to Shaq's, where LeBron wins a few titles, but has no hesitation in leaving for new pastures. If he wins 1-2 titles in Miami, I'd be more shocked if he stayed than left after 4 years.

Once D-Wade is washed up and LeBron becomes the center of a squad again, he will have the chance to redeem his legacy. It's similar to Kobe in the sense that LeBron is going to have to earn some titles on his own to be considered great. Right now, D-Wade is his Shaq, but it's even worse because LeBron came to D-Wade's city when LeBron was arguably the best player in the world. It was just the wrong way to do it...LeBron belittled his own career.
 
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billmac91;1837076; said:
Once D-Wade is washed up and LeBron becomes the center of a squad again, he will have the chance to redeem his legacy.
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This is what I was referring to regarding the measuring stick of at least 3 titles to redeem himself. With Wade aging, Lebron would have to carry the load to get number 3, 4, etc. I think I underestimated the negative impact of "The Decision" intially...but I still think he can overcome it.


also, I appreciate the civil discussion of Lebron's legacy. It's a lot more fun to discuss it this way.
 
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