KY RB Damien Harris (Alabama Verbal)

[Krenzelicious]

Mind of Mike

Ohio State handed out a few new offers over the last week that caught some people by surprise. One of these was to three-star running back Ke'Shawn Vaughn, who is averaging about 200 yards per game and 14 yards per carry this fall. The initial thought is that this offer happened as a back up to possibly losing Damien Harris, but that does not seem to be the case. Vaughn is having such an impressive senior season that this is a player who the Buckeyes just decided they want in their program. It's too early to say if Vaughn plans to give Ohio State a long look, but with the season he is having, you can be sure that he will likely have plenty of new options over the next month or two. And, as we all know by now, I think Harris ends up at Kentucky.

 

[mendensa]

What if UK gets blitzed again at home vs. UGA this weekend and lose their 4th straight? It sounds like most feel that Harris is headed to UK. Does that change if they continue this trend of losing and are bottom-dwellers in the SEC like most years? Are the Bucks still in this or is it a done deal at this point?

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

I think this is way beyond this years W-L columns... this is about comfort... and the future

 

[NFBuck]

What if UK gets blitzed again at home vs. UGA this weekend and lose their 4th straight? It sounds like most feel that Harris is headed to UK. Does that change if they continue this trend of losing and are bottom-dwellers in the SEC like most years? Are the Bucks still in this or is it a done deal at this point?

I think way too much is put into wins and losses when it comes to recruiting. Like NJ said, it's about comfort and relationships with coaches/future teammates. I don't think tOSU is "out of it", but I don't think how Kentucky does the rest of the year will sway him much one way or the other. If he's more comfortable with Stoops and his staff than with Urban and his, Kentucky wins.

 

[mendensa]

I think way too much is put into wins and losses when it comes to recruiting. Like NJ said, it's about comfort and relationships with coaches/future teammates. I don't think tOSU is "out of it", but I don't think how Kentucky does the rest of the year will sway him much one way or the other. If he's more comfortable with Stoops and his staff than with Urban and his, Kentucky wins.

I figured as much. I was thinking more on the lines of the history of being a bottom-dwelling SEC team and how it seems to happen every year once they get into the heart of their SEC schedule and not just about their recent and future losses. Maybe he wakes up one morning and realizes no matter how much UK wants to become a football school that Coach Cal runs the show down in Lexington and it never will be and that OSU is the better place for him. I would love to see another big power back to go with all this speed on the outside in our backfield. Still crossing my fingers.

 

[pnuts34]

I figured as much. I was thinking more on the lines of the history of being a bottom-dwelling SEC team and how it seems to happen every year once they get into the heart of their SEC schedule and not just about their recent and future losses. Maybe he wakes up one morning and realizes no matter how much UK wants to become a football school that Coach Cal runs the show down in Lexington and it never will be and that OSU is the better place for him. I would love to see another big power back to go with all this speed on the outside in our backfield. Still crossing my fingers.

Im sure coach Stoops and his staff preempted him with telling him the end of the year would be rough. the beginning of UK's schedule was extremely soft, and they won and came close in some games many thought they wouldnt. Stoops can sell the Miss st game to Harris all day as what the future holds. And Harris has stated several times that the records don't mean anything as long as progress is shown. And UK has done that. Comfort with staff, players, commits and cAmpus will make his decision, imo. And we can talk about the better chance at playing in the NFL, but UK has put various players in the NFL too. The NFL finds tAlent regardless of school.

 

[kujirakira]

Not that it matters, but the underlying issue is that Stoops won't be in Kentucky 4 years from now.
Comfort, progress, whatever... doesn't mean much when the guy you're comfortable with will jump ship once bigger fish see that progress.
That said, can't fault a guy for wanting to stay home. Besides going to Kentucky is a lot better than going up North.

 

[pnuts34]

Not that it matters, but the underlying issue is that Stoops won't be in Kentucky 4 years from now.
Comfort, progress, whatever... doesn't mean much when the guy you're comfortable with will jump ship once bigger fish see that progress.
That said, can't fault a guy for wanting to stay home. Besides going to Kentucky is a lot better than going up North.

I don't think manyb players think that theyre coach will be there during their entire time in school. Its the state of CFB. Position coaches always looking to move up and HCs looking for the bigger school with more money. kids arent naive. So in the end, comfort and progress mean a whole lot to kids, not as much the coaching staff

 

[kujirakira]

comfort and progress mean a whole lot to kids, not as much the coaching staff

Does not compute. Comfort and Progress are both tied to those same coaches.
There's also plenty of destinations where the coaching staff isn't near as volatile as you make it out to be. Kentucky is on the far end of that spectrum. Ohio State is somewhere in the middle due to upward momentum of assistants. Places like Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern* ... are on the other end.

*I don't see them turning on Fitz anytime soon, and nobody has much cause to hire assistants away from the likes of Iowa and Wiscy.

 

[pnuts34]

Does not compute. Comfort and Progress are both tied to those same coaches.
There's also plenty of destinations where the coaching staff isn't near as volatile as you make it out to be. Kentucky is on the far end of that spectrum. Ohio State is somewhere in the middle due to upward momentum of assistants. Places like Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern* ... are on the other end.

*I don't see them turning on Fitz anytime soon, and nobody has much cause to hire assistants away from the likes of Iowa and Wiscy.

Comfort and progress are also tied to current players and commits and also location. Damien and his mom have Said theyre comfortable at the campus as much as with the coaches. And we've all talked ad nauseam about Stoops probably leaving, yet Harris constantly still visits UK, so it doesnt seem to matter to him and I'm sure that thought has gone through his mind. But playing for your home state school sometimes means more, and making them relevent means more to some recruits than going to a powerhouse. we've lost this battle before with a number of kids to lesser programs because they wanted to stay in state. Its not a shock and we shouldn't be surprised that Harris may go that route. Id be the first to jump for joy if we landed him, but the staff seems to be pursuing a lot of other guts just in case which is telling because our eggs seemed to be in his basket for while

 

[kujirakira]

Right, it's location.
Like I said, I can't blame a kid for wanting to stay close to home and in any case it's far better than seeing him go up North.
But that's what would appear to be his priority... location. Not progress, comfort, etc. Those are just rationalizations that are easily debunked but change nothing about his likely decision.

 

[NFBuck]

I don't think manyb players think that theyre coach will be there during their entire time in school. Its the state of CFB. Position coaches always looking to move up and HCs looking for the bigger school with more money. kids arent naive. So in the end, comfort and progress mean a whole lot to kids, not as much the coaching staff

I disagree wholeheartedly. Recruits many, many times commit to coaches and their staff not the program. They're often tightest with their position coach. It's why recruits won't sniff scUM right now and many of their current commits are gone or looking elsewhere...because they know Hoke and/or the asst coach recruiting them is toast. There are obviously exceptions, but a big part of that "comfort" is knowing who will be coaching them for 3-4 years.

UK has been recruiting better than they have for a long time. I'm sure Stoops is selling him HARD on the "stay home and help us build something special, or you can go to tOSU and be part of an assembly line" angle. It's the smart play.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

Right, it's location.
Like I said, I can't blame a kid for wanting to stay close to home and in any case it's far better than seeing him go up North.
But that's what would appear to be his priority... location. Not progress, comfort, etc. Those are just rationalizations that are easily debunked but change nothing about his likely decision.

How can direct quotes from Damien about improvement be "easily debunked?"

Link 1

“People are talking about Kentucky being on the rise, [how they] can’t wait to go to games, great atmosphere. Things like that, things that I just didn’t experience when I initially got offered by Kentucky,” Harris said. “My freshman year -- it’s a night-and-day difference than how it is now.”

Link 2

Madison Southern junior running back Damien Harris, the top-rated player at his position nationally, has indicated that for him to keep considering Kentucky, the Cats must make progress and show they can win. But he’s not unrealistic in his expectations for what it will take to impress him after UK went 2-10 the last two years.

“It is not all about wins and losses per se. My freshman year, we were 2-10. Then my sophomore year we went 7-5 and this past year we went 10-2,” Harris said. “You can tell improvement on the field.

“It does not always go in the win column, or the loss column. But you can see improvement on the field, the players’ desire to want to play for the coaching staff to get better. It’s not necessarily all about wins and losses. It’s a feeling I will get about whether they are improving.”

Link 3

"They're in the process of rebuilding," he said. "The first thing coach (Mark) Stoops said when he came to see me for the first time he asked me to give them a chance to recruit me. He just said, 'We're going to turn things around. I hope you stick around to witness us try to make changes.' So I decided to. So that progress, I'm not going to say that's what I'm looking for, but to see progress that will definitely help because like I said he told me that they were going to make progress. So I wanted to wait and see if they really would. It's really important to see how much progress they do make."

There are more quotes and it isn't the ONLY thing he's deciding on obviously, but to dismiss the importance of the improvements made by that program would be foolish. If he picks UK, it'd be a culmination of all of the above, location, chance to win, and relationship with coaches. If he didn't feel like he could play competitive ball at UK, they'd still be in trail position like they had been.

 

[pnuts34]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Recruits many, many times commit to coaches and their staff not the program. They're often tightest with their position coach. It's why recruits won't sniff scUM right now and many of their current commits are gone or looking elsewhere...because they know Hoke and/or the asst coach recruiting them is toast. There are obviously exceptions, but a big part of that "comfort" is knowing who will be coaching them for 3-4 years.

UK has been recruiting better than they have for a long time. I'm sure Stoops is selling him HARD on the "stay home and help us build something special, or you can go to tOSU and be part of an assembly line" angle. It's the smart play.

Thats a valid argument using scUM, and we can both go back and forth using examples of recruits going to schools based on the school or the coaches. But in this instance, Harris definitely seems to like a combination of the school and staff. And I'm sure in the back of his mind he knows he may not play for this staff his entire UK career. And you can bet that Stoops is using your example to recruit him as well.
Some OSU fans seem to think its such an easy decision to mAke between both schools, but like @buchtelgrad04 stated, theres a lot going into his decision and he honestly believes both schools are even in his mind.

 

[kujirakira]

How can direct quotes from Damien about improvement be "easily debunked?"

Link 1


Link 2


Link 3


There are more quotes and it isn't the ONLY thing he's deciding on obviously, but to dismiss the importance of the improvements made by that program would be foolish. If he picks UK, it'd be a culmination of all of the above, location, chance to win, and relationship with coaches. If he didn't feel like he could play competitive ball at UK, they'd still be in trail position like they had been.

Wasn't saying he didn't say it... pointing out that talking points about improvement / progress are easily countered with "Yea well, that coaching staff isn't going to be there very long"

That said, I don't think it's an easy decision for anyone or that the only smart choice he can make is going to Ohio State.