King bumps his gums on the pickle

[AKAK]

Bucklion was qouted a statement with those two and used a mocking manner towards me.

Even if Springs was worth a top 7 pick, that is 3 in the last 20 years that did anything worth being picked that high. You can get the same player later in the draft, the odds prove it every single year.

Yeah, but you have to know who it is.... that's the trick.

For every Orlando Pace there's a Tony Mandarich... For Every Peyton Mannig there's a Jamarcus Russel.... Julius Peppers vs. Courtney Brown.

Its just the nature of the beast... and... probalby CB's do as well or better in the top 10 than most, I'd bet.

Besides.... there are damned few really elite players in any given year... if Champ Bailey was the best corner of the last 10 years (not saying he is or isn't)... essentially that means he's one in probably 400-500 CB's that went through the league.... you can't expect that kind of value at any spot.

At any rate... uh... yeah...

 

[jwinslow]

Bucklion was qouted a statement with those two and used a mocking manner towards me.

Yes, because your definitive stance (that there were 0) was quite foolish, as evidenced by the list he quoted.

Even if Springs was worth a top 7 pick, that is 3 in the last 20 years that did anything worth being picked that high. You can get the same player later in the draft, the odds prove it every single year.

Every position has sleepers. You can find Tom Brady in the 6th, Kurt Warner in another league, etc. That doesn't mean you pass on a quarterback if you love him.

 

[jwinslow]

By hineygate's standards (which would require a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning):

There have been 18 QBs drafted since Peyton Manning was taken. 1 of them is in the same galaxy as those two, Donovan McNabb, and he's still on the other end of it.

 

[hatehineygate]

I cant win. I wish I worked at a job where I could find a guy that has one good year out of ten and consider him a success because at the rate I am paying him................

Its like saying Michael Clayton of the Bucs is a good WR because he had a good rookie year and was on the field after that, but never did anything.

Terrence Newman almost got benched this year. Those guys that are really really good, but not really because they are hurt or criminals, they dont count in your favor.

For every Deion Sanders or Champ Bailey there are 3 elite corners picked in the 3rd round and beyond, that is my point. You are taking a chance on Dunta Robinson when Nnamdi is picked way later.

 

[hatehineygate]

By hineygate's standards (which would require a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning):

There have been 18 QBs drafted since Peyton Manning was taken. 1 of them is in the same galaxy as those two, Donovan McNabb, and he's still on the other end of it.

And Drew Brees, Phil Rivers,

There are only how many starting QBs that were not taken in the first round? Your argument does not compute.:(

-Schaub
-Hasselbeck
-Romo
-Warner

 

[AKAK]

I cant win. I wish I worked at a job where I could find a guy that has one good year out of ten and consider him a success because at the rate I am paying him................

Its like saying Michael Clayton of the Bucs is a good WR because he had a good rookie year and was on the field after that, but never did anything.

Terrence Newman almost got benched this year. Those guys that are really really good, but not really because they are hurt or criminals, they dont count in your favor.

For every Deion Sanders or Champ Bailey there are 3 elite corners picked in the 3rd round and beyond, that is my point. You are taking a chance on Dunta Robinson when Nnamdi is picked way later.

Okay...

Tell you what... I'll take Joe Haden (and I don't care if the Browns take him or not, really)

And you tell me right now the name of a CB that will be taken in the 3rd round or later that that will have a better year than him.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

I cant win. I wish I worked at a job where I could find a guy that has one good year out of ten and consider him a success because at the rate I am paying him................

Its like saying Michael Clayton of the Bucs is a good WR because he had a good rookie year and was on the field after that, but never did anything.

Terrence Newman almost got benched this year. Those guys that are really really good, but not really because they are hurt or criminals, they dont count in your favor.

For every Deion Sanders or Champ Bailey there are 3 elite corners picked in the 3rd round and beyond, that is my point. You are taking a chance on Dunta Robinson when Nnamdi is picked way later.

My main argument with your point is that the hit/miss rate for ANY position in the top-10 is going to be similar.

A couple CB's have been stars, most have been decent players, and a couple have been busts. IMO, the list of safeties (although a considerably smaller list) bears out a similar breakdown.

It's not like 8 of 10 offensive lineman or wide receivers taken top-10 turn out to be stars.

 

[Bucklion]

And Drew Brees, Phil Rivers,

There are only how many starting QBs that were not taken in the first round? Your argument does not compute.:(

-Schaub
-Hasselbeck
-Romo
-Warner

huuhhhh wha?

Schaub, Hasselbeck, Romo, Warner, Henne, Derek Anderson, Bulger, FAVRE, Shawn Hill, Gradkowski, Kyle Orton, Garrard...TOM BY GAWD BRADY....

 

[hatehineygate]

Okay...

Tell you what... I'll take Joe Haden (and I don't care if the Browns take him or not, really)

And you tell me right now the name of a CB that will be taken in the 3rd round or later that that will have a better year than him.

Thats what you arent understanding, take another position. The odds are that you can get the same corner later with as many questions in a later round, why burn a top ten on them? Pick a QB or and OLB or a NT, someone that is a bit more proven and a premier position.

For the record I would take Arenas and Berry ahead of Haden.

 

[hatehineygate]

huuhhhh wha?

Schaub, Hasselbeck, Romo, Warner, Henne(injury), Derek Anderson(is this a serious statement?), Bulger(no), FAVRE(yes), Shawn Hill(Alex Smith replaced him), Gradkowski(Raiders-doesnt count), Kyle Orton(yes), Garrard(yes)...TOM BY GAWD BRADY....

What is you point

 

[Bucklion]

What is you point

Ummm...just that there were a lot of guys that started at QB in 2009 that were not drafted in the first round...amounting to almost half the teams during the season.

 

[AKAK]

Thats what you arent understanding, take another position. The odds are that you can get the same corner later with as many questions in a later round, why burn a top ten on them? Pick a QB or and OLB or a NT, someone that is a bit more proven and a premier position.

OLB or NT are Premier Positions?

For the record I would take Arenas and Berry ahead of Haden

Berry? Is he gonna fall to the 3rd round? Really?

 

[jwinslow]

Thats what you arent understanding, take another position. The odds are that you can get the same corner later with as many questions in a later round, why burn a top ten on them?

Because the odds are your best players will come from the first round. There are sleepers at every position, but CB has a pretty good hit rate.

For the record I would take Arenas and Berry ahead of Haden.

Javier Arenas ahead of Arenas/Berry is a much bigger reach than Haden in the top-10.

He'll be there on the 2nd or 3rd day of the draft.

 

[jwinslow]

You can find some sleepers, but as seen below, most of the premiere corners were not found after the first round, no matter how much you hate hineygate.

Pro-bowl corners by year (1:15 = 1st round 15th pick)

2010
1:04 Woodson
1:05 Bailey
1:05 Newman*
1:14 Revis
1:16 Rodgers-Cromartie
1:23 Winfield*
1:25 Jenkins*
1:31 Asomugha
4:23 Samuel
................... * - alternates

2009
1:04 Woodson
1:14 Revis
1:23 Winfield
1:31 Asomugha
3:20 Barber
7:23 Finneran

2008
1:05 Bailey
1:05 Newman
1:11 Trufant
1:19 Cromartie
4:23 Samuel
6:XX Harris

2007
1:05 Bailey
1:08 Hall
1:10 McAlister
1:13 Harris
1:26 Sheppard
2:07 Mathis
3:20 Barber

 

[hatehineygate]

NT and OLB in a 3-4 defense are absolutely premier positions

QB
LT
NT
OLB

those are the four money makers