Joe Flacco (Baltimore Ravens)

[tsteele316]

Now that his defense isn't around to carry the load (to say nothing of Boldin), we'll see just how good of a QB Joe is, I guess.

baltimore's defense was 23rd in the league last year and wasn't good in the playoffs. this argument doesn't hold a lot of water. also, flacco had one of the best statistical playoff runs of all time.

 

[buckeyesin07]

baltimore's defense was 23rd in the league last year and wasn't good in the playoffs. this argument doesn't hold a lot of water. also, flacco had one of the best statistical playoff runs of all time.

Not sure where you're getting your stats, but according to nfl.com,

- in the regular season, Baltimore's defense was 12th out of 32 in scoring defense (the Buccaneers, not the Ravens were 23rd, FYI).

- in the regular season, Baltimore's defense was 17th out of 32 in yards given up per game (the Browns, not the Ravens, were 23rd, FYI)

- in the playoffs, Baltimore's defense was 2nd best out of 12 playoff teams in points per game allowed. So, it "wasn't good in the playoffs?"

Maybe your fabricated stats are what do not hold water.

 

[matcar]

Not sure where you're getting your stats, but according to nfl.com,

- in the regular season, Baltimore's defense was 12th out of 32 in scoring defense (the Buccaneers, not the Ravens were 23rd, FYI).

- in the regular season, Baltimore's defense was 17th out of 32 in yards given up per game (the Browns, not the Ravens, were 23rd, FYI)

- in the playoffs, Baltimore's defense was 2nd best out of 12 playoff teams in points per game allowed. So, it "wasn't good in the playoffs?"

Maybe your fabricated stats are what do not hold water.

The more obvious point here is that the ravens defense was not all world last year. Why is it so hard for people to admit that this guy is good?

 

[tsteele316]

Not sure where you're getting your stats, but according to nfl.com,

- in the regular season, Baltimore's defense was 12th out of 32 in scoring defense (the Buccaneers, not the Ravens were 23rd, FYI).

- in the regular season, Baltimore's defense was 17th out of 32 in yards given up per game (the Browns, not the Ravens, were 23rd, FYI)

- in the playoffs, Baltimore's defense was 2nd best out of 12 playoff teams in points per game allowed. So, it "wasn't good in the playoffs?"

Maybe your fabricated stats are what do not hold water.

i think i got the regular season stats from my inability to adequately sort in ascending order on nfl.com.

and outside of the indy game against a team that had no business being in the playoffs, baltimore's defense gave up 27 ppg in the playoffs. their yardage per game was also not good.

regardless, a defense surrendering 27 ppg, doesn't get joe flacco in trent dilfer status with the 2000 ravens. that's beyond stupid.

 

[Buckeneye]

i think i got the regular season stats from my inability to adequately sort in ascending order on nfl.com.

and outside of the indy game against a team that had no business being in the playoffs, baltimore's defense gave up 27 ppg in the playoffs. their yardage per game was also not good.

regardless, a defense surrendering 27 ppg, doesn't get joe flacco in trent dilfer status with the 2000 ravens. that's beyond stupid.

When those defenses face 2 of the best QB's of this decade in the playoffs, that ppg stat tends to increase.

I won't lie, Baltimore's defense wasn't "all world". But they were solid. Especially come playoff time. Fact is, this kid has been questioned for his ability to take the next step, but to do so with consistency. He had an amazing playoff run. That's what the Ravens based his new contract on. That run however was fueled on the back of outstanding Oline play and Boldin doing his beast mode impressive.

Their defense will be even worse this year. Flacco's #1 receiving weapon this postseason will be gone. (of course Smith is still there) I for one don't believe Flacco has turned the corner. As a matter of fact I fully expect him to return to mid-season form where he is an up and down QB.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I don't think Trent Dilfer is a good comp. I think he's more like Phil Simms. Pretty pedestrian QB who had a great post season run.

Baltimore certainly isn't the first team to overpay for a great playoff run and they won't be the last. It doesn't change the fact that this is a massive overpay and they'll likely soon regret it. There is a small chance he could play up to that contract going forward but I'd be willing to lay down a pretty fair amount of coin he doesn't.

That is what separates elite form average, consistency. Any average QB can get hot and have a great game or stretch of games but he can't do it consistently. Phil Simms has a SB victory and a SB MVP, I shall be damned if anyone could convince me he was a better QB than Dan Marino or Jim Kelly.

This generations Phil Simms just got paid more than his Marino caliber contemporaries. I understand why but it's still a mistake.

 

[buckeyesin07]

i think i got the regular season stats from my inability to adequately sort in ascending order on nfl.com.

and outside of the indy game against a team that had no business being in the playoffs, baltimore's defense gave up 27 ppg in the playoffs. their yardage per game was also not good.

regardless, a defense surrendering 27 ppg, doesn't get joe flacco in trent dilfer status with the 2000 ravens. that's beyond stupid.

Your inability to figure out how to navigate the stats on nfl.com fails you again--Baltimore surrendered 22 ppg in the playoffs (not 27, as you claim), which was good for second best out of all 12 playoff teams.

Care to make yet another post in which you fabricate stats in support of your argument? That, my friend, is what is beyond stupid.

 

[tsteele316]

Your inability to figure out how to navigate the stats on nfl.com fails you again--Baltimore surrendered 22 ppg in the playoffs (not 27, as you claim), which was good for second best out of all 12 playoff teams.

Care to make yet another post in which you fabricate stats in support of your argument? That, my friend, is what is beyond stupid.

actually, I clearly said outside of the colts game they surrendered 27 ppg. it was pretty clear.

 

[NFBuck]

That may be true if it were accurate. Recall Troy had some medical problem (can't recall what it was) that caused him to lose 20 lbs or so and miss basically the entire preseason. The Ravens staff couldn't have chosen Troy over Flacco. That said, as mediocre as Flacco has been, I'm willing to admit there's a reason Flacco's in the NFL and Troy's not.

Over the past 4 years, he's averaged approximately 3700 yards, 22 Td and 11 Int per season. While you may consider those numbers "mediocre", you have to take into account he doesn't play in a pass happy offense like a Manning, Brees, Brady, or Rodgers. I'd gladly take that "mediocre" production from a clowns QB. Most important statistic? He's won 9 playoff games the past five years, and led his team to a SuperBowl victory. Discount that all you want, and you will, but it's just making you look foolish.

...and if you think Troy Smith would have beat him out for the starting job back in '08, well, I don't know what to say. There's a reason he's out of the league at 28 years old. GREAT college QB, not an NFL QB.

BTW, I have no horse in this race. I hate the ratbirds, and really don't care about Flacco at all. I just find calling a guy that's put up solid numbers and won a playoff game every year he's been in the league, then went on one of the great post-season runs in league history "mediocre" kind of silly.

 

[3074326]

Check post #141--that'll clearly come as news to you, given your post. And stats like that, showing Flacco to be a middle-of-the-road QB in the NFL, make him a clown when he says he's the best.

Look, if you want to pat the guy on the back and recharacterize his ridiculous, unsubstantiated bravado as something you want in a QB, by all means, you're free to do so. But, as I said, let's not act like he's something he's not just b/c he happened to be a member of a team that won a Super Bowl.

I have stats on my side. You just have the same tired argument that goes something like, "But, but he won a Super Bowl!" Color me unimpressed for Flacco's "accomplishing" something that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have done.

Nothing is going to come as news to me because I actually know what I'm talking about. Listen dude, I don't even fucking like this guy. I already said twice that I don't have him in my top 5 QBs, maybe not top 10? Not sure. I don't find him elite and I think his contract is hilarious. That being said, did you even watch the playoffs? He had one of the best postseasons in NFL history based on statistics, the subject which apparently trumps everything. His defense was average last year. They did not carry the team. Flacco carried the Ravens throughout the postseason. He did not do what Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer did. They were along for the ride. He was the motherfucking ride.

I'm done arguing with you because it's the most pointless thing I've ever done on the internet. Enjoy the Flacco thread from here on out.

 

[buckeyesin07]

actually, I clearly said outside of the colts game they surrendered 27 ppg. it was pretty clear.

My fault. I gave you enough credit to think you wouldn't have to appeal to how good or bad you think the Colts' defense is in order to support an argument about Flacco.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Over the past 4 years, he's averaged approximately 3700 yards, 22 Td and 11 Int per season. While you may consider those numbers "mediocre", you have to take into account he doesn't play in a pass happy offense like a Manning, Brees, Brady, or Rodgers. I'd gladly take that "mediocre" production from a clowns QB. Most important statistic? He's won 9 playoff games the past five years, and led his team to a SuperBowl victory. Discount that all you want, and you will, but it's just making you look foolish.

Let's be clear--I'm not "considering" any numbers mediocre. They are mediocre relative to his peers (including QBR, which accounts for your "pass happy" offenses point, FYI). He's won some playoff games, to be sure. But so have other QBs with mediocre stats. And remember, Flacco called himself the best in the NFL which, you'll recall, is what I originally took issue with.

...and if you think Troy Smith would have beat him out for the starting job back in '08, well, I don't know what to say. There's a reason he's out of the league at 28 years old. GREAT college QB, not an NFL QB.

There's a big difference between saying that Flacco didn't beat Troy out (which he didn't--Troy was hurt--look it up) and saying that Troy would've beaten Flacco out had he been healthy. Your implication notwithstanding, I said the former and did not say the latter. Further yet, not only did I not say the latter, but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I'm actually agreeing with you on this point ("I'm willing to admit there's a reason Flacco's in the NFL and Troy's not").


We'll see how Joe does this season. I suspect he will (once again) put up numbers that'll rank him in the 10-20 range. Numbers that are mediocre to good, but certainly not (as Joe claimed) indicative of the best QB in the NFL.

 

[matcar]

Let's be clear--I'm not "considering" any numbers mediocre. They are mediocre relative to his peers (including QBR, which accounts for your "pass happy" offenses point, FYI). He's won some playoff games, to be sure. But so have other QBs with mediocre stats. And remember, Flacco called himself the best in the NFL which, you'll recall, is what I originally took issue with.



There's a big difference between saying that Flacco didn't beat Troy out (which he didn't--Troy was hurt--look it up) and saying that Troy would've beaten Flacco out had he been healthy. Your implication notwithstanding, I said the former and did not say the latter. Further yet, not only did I not say the latter, but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I'm actually agreeing with you on this point ("I'm willing to admit there's a reason Flacco's in the NFL and Troy's not").


We'll see how Joe does this season. I suspect he will (once again) put up numbers that'll rank him in the 10-20 range. Numbers that are mediocre to good, but certainly not (as Joe claimed) indicative of the best QB in the NFL.

Flacco is a good QB. He and a remarkable season ending in a Super Bowl win. Seems like you could find another target as your missing the mark here. Again, what kind of player is going to say anything other than "I think im as good as anyone." I wouldn't want a player who thought otherwise.

 

[NFBuck]

Flacco is a good QB. He and a remarkable season ending in a Super Bowl win. Seems like you could find another target as your missing the mark here. Again, what kind of player is going to say anything other than "I think im as good as anyone." I wouldn't want a player who thought otherwise.

Pretty much.

 

[buckeyesin07]

Another loss yesterday, this time to the woeful Steelers--the self-proclaimed best QB in the league now has his team sitting at 3-4. I wonder if Ozzie's rethinking throwing all that cash at Joe.