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Gatorubet
Loathing All Things Georgia
Small BWRs. Sucks that the diesel generators stopped working. When I worked at the Waterford III plant in Taft, Louisiana, I was in the diesel generator room a few times when that sucker started up. I wonder what the issue was in Japan, fuel delivery related, or just not running those mothers enough between tests? They'd better get those emergency generators there quick. I see where the pressure is up to 2X design and they have started venting.
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Tonyank
BuckeyeNation 4 Life
Gatorubet;1888680; said:
basically this is my job at about 8 major factories in mi. If you run out of fuel, you are fucked. most places have a 500 gallon tank that wont last very long.
MOST diesel motors will run if not froze and started one a month.
Dont laugh, i make sure your Hebrew Nationals are well maintained
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhporhNsWWI"]YouTube - Huge Whirlpool after Tsunami hits Japan 8.9 magnitude earthquake - Friday March 11, 2011[/ame]
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Gatorubet
Loathing All Things Georgia
Was watching Anderson Cooper showing video of the disaster, when a scene of a bunch of cars being pushed by the water over some embankment came on. Cooper is going "and you can see a large number of cars being pushed by the water surge, we don't know if any of them had passengers or not..."
As he is saying this, I look at one of the cars slowly spinning and about to be pushed over the embankment, and suddenly you can see in the window of the car what looks like a young japanese woman trapped in the vehicle, waving her arms in terror as the car goes over the bank. Damn. Trying to find that shot on the CNN site. Gonna have nightmares.
As he is saying this, I look at one of the cars slowly spinning and about to be pushed over the embankment, and suddenly you can see in the window of the car what looks like a young japanese woman trapped in the vehicle, waving her arms in terror as the car goes over the bank. Damn. Trying to find that shot on the CNN site. Gonna have nightmares.
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3074326
Adios
It's being reported that the there's a high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima's nuclear power plant. Radiation may have already been released.
EDIT: Since Chernobyl is trending on Twitter, I'm going to say that it won't be like that. The Japanese reactors (I think) are ones that power down if they get too hot. So it won't be like Chernobyl at all. I would imagine the Japanese plants also have containment measures. But still. There are what, five reactors in jeopardy right now in Japan? Still scary, regardless.
EDIT 2: The Fukushima plant has been confirmed to be leaking 8 times the normal levels of radiation outside the building, and 1000 times the levels inside the building. They said only residents within a six mile radius would be affected. But, it's right beside the ocean, so that could be something else entirely...
EDIT: Since Chernobyl is trending on Twitter, I'm going to say that it won't be like that. The Japanese reactors (I think) are ones that power down if they get too hot. So it won't be like Chernobyl at all. I would imagine the Japanese plants also have containment measures. But still. There are what, five reactors in jeopardy right now in Japan? Still scary, regardless.
EDIT 2: The Fukushima plant has been confirmed to be leaking 8 times the normal levels of radiation outside the building, and 1000 times the levels inside the building. They said only residents within a six mile radius would be affected. But, it's right beside the ocean, so that could be something else entirely...
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3074326
Adios
There has been an explosion in one of the nuclear plants. I think it was the one that was already spewing radioactive vapors.
Not sure what exploded. But, it's bad news.
I've seen credible people say a Chernobyl-incident wouldn't happen, and based on my very limited nuclear technology studies (:p) I didn't think it made sense either. And now they have an explosion.
EDIT: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU"]YouTube - Fukushima, Japan - Nuclear Reactor Explosion - March 12, 2011[/ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU&feature=player_embedded#at=51
Not sure what exploded. But, it's bad news.
I've seen credible people say a Chernobyl-incident wouldn't happen, and based on my very limited nuclear technology studies (:p) I didn't think it made sense either. And now they have an explosion.
EDIT: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU"]YouTube - Fukushima, Japan - Nuclear Reactor Explosion - March 12, 2011[/ame]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU&feature=player_embedded#at=51
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Gatorubet
Loathing All Things Georgia
The soviet design did not use a containment vessel. Not that the danger from radiation is to be ignored, but 8 times the normal outside radiation is like what you would get flying regular air from NY to LA.
A nuclear power plant, hell any power plant, is just a giant tea kettle to boil water to make steam to run a turbine/generator to create electricity. Japan used the BWR design. Most US plants use the PWR design. A Boiling Water Reactor uses Uranium 235 fuel to heat the water in the reactor core to the point it is hot and then the steam goes to the turbines. The whole damn cycle is hot. I mean radioactive hot, not warm hot (it is hot hot too) The BWR I worked at was the WPPSS #2 plant in the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, and it is like the one in Japan but about a third more MW. They (BWR) are simpler in design, but have a greater risk of contamination if things go to [Mark May] because all of the water in the loop is radioactive hot.
A PWR like most of our US plants use is also a big tea pot in a containment building, but it is run slightly differently. In a PWR there is a loop of water that runs to and from the reactor core where it is super heated - but instead of becoming steam and going to the turbines, that hot water goes to a second water loop system where a heat exchanger take the heat from the radioactive water loop coming from the reactor core, and it heats up this second loop of water hot. That second loop of hot water goes to the turbines as steam, and then a third loop of water goes to the big cooling towers (the press loves to show pictures of the cooling towers because it looks like scary stuff is happening.) that spew steam into the sky and cools the water in the second loop for a return trip to the heat exchanger where it is heated up aagin from the heat from the first loop coming from the reactor.
In a PWR the radioactive water that is heated by the fuel rods in the reactor core never physically goes to or touches the turbine, it just goes in a closed loop from the reactor to where it meets the the heat exchanger. This second water loop picks up heat only (from the water that comes from the reactor) and never mixes with the water that comes from the reactor.
Why did I bore you with this? If, for example, there is a break in the water loop near the turbine generators - in a BWR all of it would be radioactive contaminated water coming from the radioactive reactor core. That same line break at the turbine generator in a PWR would not be radioactive at all, since the water in the pipes never went to the reactor or touched the fuel rods. I do not know what the hell happened at the plant in Japan, but in a very simplistic sense, it is easier for there to be a release of radiation in that Japanese plant because so much more of the system (the water in the reactor core, the piping loop to the turbine, the turbine, return feedwater pumps) is constantly being exposed to the radioactive fuel rods in the highly radioactive reactor core.
Most of the radiation in the water has a short half life, so in a normal operating scenario is it not a problem, even though more of a BWR plant environment emits radiation. If [Mark May] goes bad and fuel rods start to melt, however, more of the BWR plant's systems can release the more deadly radiation if there is a catastrophe and the various systems compromised by breaks, etc.
A nuclear power plant, hell any power plant, is just a giant tea kettle to boil water to make steam to run a turbine/generator to create electricity. Japan used the BWR design. Most US plants use the PWR design. A Boiling Water Reactor uses Uranium 235 fuel to heat the water in the reactor core to the point it is hot and then the steam goes to the turbines. The whole damn cycle is hot. I mean radioactive hot, not warm hot (it is hot hot too) The BWR I worked at was the WPPSS #2 plant in the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, and it is like the one in Japan but about a third more MW. They (BWR) are simpler in design, but have a greater risk of contamination if things go to [Mark May] because all of the water in the loop is radioactive hot.
A PWR like most of our US plants use is also a big tea pot in a containment building, but it is run slightly differently. In a PWR there is a loop of water that runs to and from the reactor core where it is super heated - but instead of becoming steam and going to the turbines, that hot water goes to a second water loop system where a heat exchanger take the heat from the radioactive water loop coming from the reactor core, and it heats up this second loop of water hot. That second loop of hot water goes to the turbines as steam, and then a third loop of water goes to the big cooling towers (the press loves to show pictures of the cooling towers because it looks like scary stuff is happening.) that spew steam into the sky and cools the water in the second loop for a return trip to the heat exchanger where it is heated up aagin from the heat from the first loop coming from the reactor.
In a PWR the radioactive water that is heated by the fuel rods in the reactor core never physically goes to or touches the turbine, it just goes in a closed loop from the reactor to where it meets the the heat exchanger. This second water loop picks up heat only (from the water that comes from the reactor) and never mixes with the water that comes from the reactor.
Why did I bore you with this? If, for example, there is a break in the water loop near the turbine generators - in a BWR all of it would be radioactive contaminated water coming from the radioactive reactor core. That same line break at the turbine generator in a PWR would not be radioactive at all, since the water in the pipes never went to the reactor or touched the fuel rods. I do not know what the hell happened at the plant in Japan, but in a very simplistic sense, it is easier for there to be a release of radiation in that Japanese plant because so much more of the system (the water in the reactor core, the piping loop to the turbine, the turbine, return feedwater pumps) is constantly being exposed to the radioactive fuel rods in the highly radioactive reactor core.
Most of the radiation in the water has a short half life, so in a normal operating scenario is it not a problem, even though more of a BWR plant environment emits radiation. If [Mark May] goes bad and fuel rods start to melt, however, more of the BWR plant's systems can release the more deadly radiation if there is a catastrophe and the various systems compromised by breaks, etc.
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3074326
Adios
Not boring me, I've recently taken up some interest in nuclear technology. Learned about it for a couple days in a WMD class and it sparked my interest. Just toured the research reactor building at OSU on Wednesday, oddly enough. The "glow" is one of the coolest things I've ever seen, and I do realize that makes me a nerd.
Informative post, Gator.
Informative post, Gator.
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localyokel
Allergic to Kool-Aid
Gator, I knew you were smart, but that post practically makes you a rocket scientist.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJzdtzl6KY"]YouTube - ????????????????????2011?3?11?[/ame]
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jwinslow;1888779; said:
Being a civil engineer,
, I can tell you that those buildings are designed to move like that in high wind/earthquake situations to relieve the stress of trying to remain still. Still pretty awesome to look at though.
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Then you'll appreciate these comments:Merih;1888780; said:Being a civil engineer,
http://gizmodo.com/#!5781064/watch-a-high+rise-building-in-tokyo-sway-during-massive-earthquake
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.earthquake.tsunami.earth/index.html?hpt=T1
Earthquake moved the axis of the earth 10 cm (4 inches).. that's eery
Earthquake moved the axis of the earth 10 cm (4 inches).. that's eery
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