Is this the future of college football?

[Jaxbuck]

At what point in time will there be minor league football and basketball, just like baseball and hockey?

You want to stop all of this nonsense at the college level with these two sports, then make minor leagues where the guys who are interested in earning money and don't want to go to class or care about a college education can play and make money.

To make that happen you'd have to get the NFL to endorse it and participate financially where as currently their farm system is completely free. Why would they pay for something they currently get free?

Also the big University's that make money on football, which then funds the non revenue sports, aren't just going to let that money go. What would be in it for them?

Even if you could force it from above somehow, things that make organizations participate in direct conflict of their own financial best interest don't usually go all that well or last all that long.

Unfortunately I don't think there are any simple answers to this stuff.

 

[Jake]

Lets get down off the cross and use the wood for something more productive. It wasn't "gotcha" journalism that fucked Jim Tressel, it was Jim Tressel that fucked Jim Tressel.

It wasn't the media that got all of those schools mentioned above punished. It was the actions of those schools.

Personally I'm more worried about the future of the concept of accountability than sports.

It is always easier to blame someone else, be it ESPN, Herbie, the NCAA, you name it. The rules are what they are until the NCAA changes them. Everyone knows it. That's why they have compliance departments.

Follow the rules or accept the consequences. Whining about being picked on is unbecoming of anyone, and especially of Buckeyes.

 

[scarletmike]

I'm just wondering how much longer they'll be able to pull the shades down and keep on pretending this hasn't become a free professional farm system. The veil of amateurism is gone, especially for football.

 

[zincfinger]

At what point in time will there be minor league football and basketball, just like baseball and hockey?

If I were a top HS football player, I think I'd rather play for the Ohio State Buckeyes for four years, getting free tuition and room and board, incredible facilities, and playing in a 100K stadium and on national television every week, than playing for the Binghamton Maulers in an empty municipal stadium and making $40K per year. So I'm skeptical that a pro football minor league would be of benefit to anyone.

 

[zincfinger]

I'm just wondering how much longer they'll be able to pull the shades down and keep on pretending this hasn't become a free professional farm system. The veil of amateurism is gone, especially for football.

What would it mean for them to stop pretending that? What action would you need to see from the NCAA, the schools (whoever "they" are) for them to demonstrate that they weren't deluding themselves on this issue?

 

[BUCKYLE]

If I were a top HS football player, I think I'd rather play for the Ohio State Buckeyes for four years, getting free tuition and room and board, incredible facilities, and playing in a 100K stadium and on national television every week, than playing for the Binghamton Maulers in an empty municipal stadium and making $40K per year. So I'm skeptical that a pro football minor league would be of benefit to anyone.

Absurd. How long would the "Binghamton Maulers" have an empty stadium bringing in talent like tOSU has? Though you may rather play at tOSU (as would I), but Cam Newton, along with plenty others, would have Binghamton competing for a leauge 'ship on a yearly basis. Their tv deal would bring shit tons of cash, and they would quickly have a 100k stadium, incredible facilities, and so on and so forth.

 

[scarletmike]

If I were a top HS football player, I think I'd rather play for the Ohio State Buckeyes for four years, getting free tuition and room and board, incredible facilities, and playing in a 100K stadium and on national television every week, than playing for the Binghamton Maulers in an empty municipal stadium and making $40K per year. So I'm skeptical that a pro football minor league would be of benefit to anyone.

It would benefit those who don't care about classes at all, as well as free up scholarship money that would be going to said athletes (not including the "student" prefix for obvious reasons) for other uses. There are plenty of athletes on college rosters that are only there because they want to get to the NFL. The indoor and other small leagues don't produce NFL players, which is why none of the talent want to go there.*

I still hear it from sports analysts, and as far as I know, the NCAA has still maintained that as far as football (and basketball) is concerned, the system remains an amateur student-athlete system. Not to mention they still treat it as such with their rules and how they go about their "business."

*Not to mention that affiliation with a big-league team brings with it the payroll backing, expected facilities, and everything else. That's not counting the kind of money a city might be willing to put towards a team and facilities to boost their economy, either.

 

[SmoovP]

This.

Lets get down off the cross and use the wood for something more productive. It wasn't "gotcha" journalism that [censored]ed Jim Tressel, it was Jim Tressel that [censored]ed Jim Tressel.

It wasn't the media that got all of those schools mentioned above punished. It was the actions of those schools.

Personally I'm more worried about the future of the concept of accountability than sports.

If I were handing them out, this would get a GPA.

Blaming 'the journalists' for what is going on is simply a 'kill the messenger' justification/rationalization.

And that's as lame as it gets.

How about we demand that our institutions play by the rules and punish them harshly when they don't?

 

[zincfinger]

Absurd. How long would the "Binghamton Maulers" have an empty stadium bringing in talent like tOSU has? Though you may rather play at tOSU (as would I), but Cam Newton, along with plenty others, would have Binghamton competing for a leauge 'ship on a yearly basis. Their tv deal would bring shit tons of cash, and they would quickly have a 100k stadium, incredible facilities, and so on and so forth.

I don't think any of that would happen (except possibly for the Binghamton Maulers competing for the minor league pro football championship, which no one would watch). People don't watch college football because it's a couple ticks lower in caliber than the NFL. People watch college football because of the history of college football, or because they have some tie to one of the Universities. Because of the brand name, as Jax put it. No minor league would have that, and absent that, "not ready for the NFL talent" isn't going to fill stadiums or turn on tv's. For a small group of the most talented guys, they'd spend a short time in the minors and go right to the NFL. For most, they'd be playing in empty stadiums, making little money, with no one watching. What time are the Columbus Clippers on tv tonight?

 

[scarletmike]

I don't think any of that would happen (except possibly for the Binghamton Maulers competing for the minor league pro football championship, which no one would watch). People don't watch college football because it's a couple ticks lower in caliber than the NFL. People watch college football because of the history of college football, or because they have some tie to one of the Universities. Because of the brand name, as Jax put it. No minor league would have that, and absent that, "not ready for the NFL talent" isn't going to fill stadiums or turn on tv's. For a small group of the most talented guys, they'd spend a short time in the minors and go right to the NFL. For most, they'd be playing in empty stadiums, making little money, with no one watching. What time are the Columbus Clippers on tv tonight?

If you're in Columbus, I don't know. But my local Low-A Padres affiliate has every home game broadcast on Comcast's local channel, and every game (home or away) is on the local ESPN radio station. They may not pull a national audience, but minor league teams aren't supposed to pull a major audience. They're a farm system for the pro leagues, and tend to be pretty popular in their region.

 

[SmoovP]

There is no analogy for NCAA basketball and football in terms of the enormous sums of money generated on the backs of people who do not share equitably in the wealth.

The rules were put in place to create a level playing field in the same sense that vaguely comparable rules are needed in recreational softball leagues. But the explosion of dollars the past two decades has changed that.

What does a kid not being able to sell his own autograph have to do with a level playing field? Why is it that OSU can sell thousands of #2 jersey's but #2 can't sell his own personal property? What does the requirement that everyone stay in school for three years have to do with a level playing field?

There is no question that if you allowed players to start cashing in inequitably on their inequitable talents college football would change in ways we can not fully anticipate and would morph into something that would likely please neither of us. And for that reason I am happy with the status quo. And certainly the folks who profit from CFB today are quite happy to keep revenues flowing as they are.

But they are happy in the same sense that the owner of a manufacturing plant is happy to run a non-union shop. So don't suggest it benefits the players. And let's stop asking why college sports continue their current glide slope when the very underpinnings are driven by greed. Did I miss the thread where the NCAA has proposed such "field leveling" tactics as a cap on ticket prices and coaches salaries? Have any of the 14 most highly paid NCAA officials (all making over $270,000 per year) requested free tuition towards a doctorate degree in lieu of salary? Or are we still focused on making sure a car dealership that wants to give a kid a good deal on an SUV is unable to do so?

The NCAA is a non-taxed not for profit organization that does as good a job of maximizing revenues (3 BILLION dollars over the next 12 years for the PAC 10 alone) and minimizing expenses (what's that walk-on doing at the training table?) as any organization I can think of.

For the record, the NCAA budget for 2010-2011 was/is $757 million dollars - $580 million (or, nearly 77%) of it was distributed back to schools and conferences.

$23 million (3%) was spent on youth service programs. $89 million (12%) was spent on Membership Programs and Services. $30 million (4%) was spent on Administration Services - salaries and operating expenses. $114 million (19%) was spent on Member Schools and Conference expenses.

The total operating expense was $724 million spent out of $757 million collected - or, 95.64% - with a little over 4% kept back for contingencies and reserves.

 

[OHSportsFan]

If I were handing them out, this would get a GPA.

Blaming 'the journalists' for what is going on is simply a 'kill the messenger' justification/rationalization.

And that's as lame as it gets.

How about we demand that our institutions play by the rules and punish them harshly when they don't?

So where was the outrage from the older generation when they walked around campus and saw their athlete-student peers with the outlandish whips?

The only thing that has changed is the reporting of these events.

 

[MaxBuck]

How about we demand that our institutions play by the rules and punish them harshly when they don't?

My primary answer to this is, true violations occur at pretty much every Big Time College Football program. When they are identified, it's mostly a result of the luck of the draw rather than "rogue institutions."

I really don't think there are schools like the old SMU out there right now. On the other hand, thinking anyone can totally prevent young athletes getting "improper benefits," whether at Ohio State, Auburn or North Texas State, is naive IMO.

None of what I'm saying means that violations by the Buckeyes, if found, should not be the subject of sanctions. Obviously we need to play by the same rules as everyone else.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Absurd. How long would the "Binghamton Maulers" have an empty stadium bringing in talent like tOSU has? Though you may rather play at tOSU (as would I), but Cam Newton, along with plenty others, would have Binghamton competing for a leauge 'ship on a yearly basis. Their tv deal would bring shit tons of cash, and they would quickly have a 100k stadium, incredible facilities, and so on and so forth.

You mean like the USFL filled all those 100K seat stadiums when they got their hands on premier NFL caliber talent? And that was with grabbing big name guys who had exposure at the college level for 4 years (Jim Kelly, Herschel walker etc). You are talking about high school athletes carrying enough name recognition to out draw an Ohio State, Alabama, Texas or USC.

I think the failure of every league that's tried to compete with the NFL and the fact the NFL successfully used replacement players shows us that people will by and large come down on the side of the branded team name and not the individual talent.

 

[SmoovP]

So where was the outrage from the older generation when they walked around campus and saw their athlete-student peers with the outlandish whips?

The only thing that has changed is the reporting of these events.

The outrage from days gone past has resulted in the byzantine rules we currently enjoy under our beloved NCAA hegemony.

Every time someone found a way to exploit a set of circumstances to have something some other institution didn't have, a new set of rules were written in an attempt to level the playing field.

Saying that the only thing that's changed is the reporting is, in the immortal words of Mike Tyson, "ludicrisp". It would be more accurate (but just as wrong) to say that everything but the reporting has changed.

The game has changed, the money has changed, the popularity has changed, the institutions have changed - everything. 'The Reporting" is perhaps the most consistent thing about the whole deal. There is more of it, to be sure, but the nature of it hasn't changed all that much.

It is precisely the result of 'the reporting' that puts us in the situation we have today - that of it being necessary to have a bloated bureaucracy charged with the responsibility to make sure everyone follows the rules that everyone has agreed to abide by.