Indians Tidbits (2008 season)

[billmac91]

I don't really know. I'm torn on this trade. I don't think anybody else has a prospect on LaPorta's level that they'd be willing to offer, but he should have gotten more that just one good prospect. After all, a prospect is just that...a prospect. There's no guarantee he's gonna work out. At least if you get Escobar or Green you have another good kid to fall back on. The deal has gotten progressively worse as more details have come out. First it was LaPorta/Escobar/another prospect and I was ecstatic, then it was LaPorta/Green/another prospect and I wasn't all that excited but content, now it's LaPorta and two throw ins and I'm scratching my head.

This farm system has consistently deteriorated on Shapiro's watch, now he had a big chance to replenish it and only gets one legit prospect. Couple that with his statements that he seems to believe they're not far from competing and I'm legitimately concerned we're just backsliding into the 70's and 80's. Hopefully LaPorta is everything that's advertised and becomes a star making this all a moot point, but right now...who knows.

On a brighter note, I just saw Cliff Lee will be the A.L.'s SP for the All-Star game so congrats to him on a magnificent turnaround. Too bad it's wasted in such a forgettable season.

But you know upper-management is couting on Cliff Lee to maintain this level of performance into the future. It's as if they have no mechanism in there brain that thing scan be cyclical and/or flukish.

If a team offers big-time prospects for Lee, you jump pn that too, b/c his value cannot be any higher than it is right now, and Lee has a about a 2% chance of carrying this season into the back-half of this year let alone next year.

Just like, upper-management was so content to NOT do anything this off-season. This team will just get better, we don't need to make any moves. Our bullpen was great last year, it will be even better this year.

It's a joke really. Talk about couting your chickens before they hatch. These dudes were too busy jerking each other off all off-season to realize this team had major, major, major holes.

Such a frustrating year. Cap it off with a terrible trade. I have no issues with trading C.C., it's for the better of the franchise, but they shot their wad way too early on this one.

LaPorta may become great, but he may not. That's why you get multiple. top level prospects. If Milwaukee wasn't willing to pull the trigger, you use them as leverage for another teams prospects.

They certainly could have done better than this collection of minor leaguers.

Not too mention, LaPorta can't play a lick of defense. We need the bat, but do we move Garko now? By most accounts, LaPorta playing the OF in the bigs is a pipe-dream.

Oh, and thank God we have a boatload of money tied up in Jake Westbrook. That was a fantastic investment. Too bad they didn;t know he arm troubles before they offered him all that cash

 

[buckeyemania11]

so the Brewers will also get the 2 first round picks that go along with Sabathia when he splits for free agency

I know the Indians have sucked at drafting, but I would rather have 2 first round picks than a AAA pitcher with a 7.85 ERA

 

[NFBuck]

You'd hope that's for sure. Although the market is kind of looking a bit tighter this year than it was last year at this time. Maybe this was the best twitch in a mediocre market?

That seems to be the rub. There was still time, but if he waited, would Milwaukee fade and pull the offer or go another direction? LaPorta seems to be the guy they coveted and that's why he pulled/is pulling the trigger. LaPorta has raked in the minors and looks like a legit middle of the order power hitter, but one would hope they'd get at least one other prospect. Milwaukee has 2 big-time 3B prospects, so why couldn't they get Green in the deal? Seems like Shapiro just folded and jumped on LaPorta. Nobody will know for sure, but I hope that's not the case.

Certainly I'd be worried that if this was all they could get for CC, what, exactly, will they do when some of the other big guns come up for FA and/or a trade.....

Who knows. Grady is locked up for a few more years and is basically the face of the franchise, so I'm not worried about him. Fausto just got locked up and we have to just hope he comes back at 100%. same with Victor and Pronk. Outside of them, I just look for more of the same.

If I were to be optimistic, I'd say he could use some of the cash they thought may be tied up in C.C.'s negotiations to bring in a bat or two this wintr and sure up the bullpen. The bats I'm not that confident in, but he has said they're gonna have to most likely go the FA route to get the bullpen help. Hopefully that doesn't mean more Keith Foulke's and Roberto Hernandez's. I don't know. Based on what he says, he seems to think this team can compete again next season with minimal change, but just about anybody can see that's foolish. He just seems to be a stubborn man that doesn't like to admit mistakes (see Andy Marte) or think outside the box to improve the teams chances.

 

[Crashcup]

Oh Yippee!

Just reaffirms, never have, never will, never are worth a shit!

They are quite simply the indians, clowns and cavs et al.

Now we wait for someone to tell me how stupid I am again??????????? The irony of it all.

 

[NFBuck]

Oh Yippee!

Just reaffirms, never have, never will, never are worth a shit!

They are quite simply the indians, clowns and cavs et al.

Now we wait for someone to tell me how stupid I am again??????????? The irony of it all.

Probably if you just keep posting the same shit.

Rumor is that a PTBNL is included and that player will be Green. The Tribe just wants more time to evaluate him. We'll see.

 

[billmac91]

Probably if you just keep posting the same shit.

Rumor is that a PTBNL is included and that player will be Green. The Tribe just wants more time to evaluate him. We'll see.

believe it when I see it. When's the last time a player to be named later was a legit prospect???

 

[NFBuck]

believe it when I see it. When's the last time a player to be named later was a legit prospect???

Agreed, but it could be if Shapiro did in fact want Green included in the deal, but wanted more time to scout him. Milwaukee was apparently pretty intent on getting C.C. into uniform for a start Tuesday, so if they wanted to get the trade done, but Shapiro wanted to be more sure about Green, this could be legit. Makes more sense than just getting the other two scrubs I guess. Just a rumor I've heard, so take it FWIW.

 

[billmac91]

Agreed, but it could be if Shapiro did in fact want Green included in the deal, but wanted more time to scout him. Milwaukee was apparently pretty intent on getting C.C. into uniform for a start Tuesday, so if they wanted to get the trade done, but Shapiro wanted to be more sure about Green, this could be legit. Makes more sense than just getting the other two scrubs I guess. Just a rumor I've heard, so take it FWIW.

I hadn't even heard there was a player to be named later...just what I had heard on ESPN radio.

I don't know how you leave that with Milwaukee....ok, done deal. We'll get back to you on Green or some other player??

Just seems like that detail would be worked out, especially between to mid-market teams. Prospects aren't taken lightly...I can;t see Shapiro or Milwaukee doing business that way. If Shapiro doesn;t like Green, what happens??

To me, and I know you said FWIW, it sounds like a tribe fan grasping for straws on a terrible deal. Obviosuly, you aren't going to get back the same value for a Cy Young pitcher, but this level of return is unacceptable. Downright incompetence.....

 

[NFBuck]

To me, and I know you said FWIW, it sounds like a tribe fan grasping for straws on a terrible deal. Obviosuly, you aren't going to get back the same value for a Cy Young pitcher, but this level of return is unacceptable. Downright incompetence.....

That may be it, maybe I'm just frightened at the idea of our GM being a completely incompetient nincompoop. I'm just hoping it's true, all I can really do at this point, ya know?

 

[billmac91]

That may be it, maybe I'm just frightened at the idea of our GM being a completely incompetient nincompoop. I'm just hoping it's true, all I can really do at this point, ya know?

I do know...it's just frustrating to be your everyday fan, and legitametely think you could do a better job than an Ivy League graduate running your franchise.

Some of these moves have been so amateur....

Just stupid shit that makes you scratch your head.

How many people said the money paid to Westbrook could have been used elsewhere? Or the CoCo trade was going to end poorly. Or that Franisco NEEDS to be called up?

I mean, all very obvious things, and management has gone the exact opposite way on all of it. Sure, it is their job and they are best baseball minds out there, but sometimes I wonder......

 

[jwinslow]

This reminds me of elementary school, trading football cards (with me new to the whole thing) with an experienced collector. Every once in awhile I would pull off an adequate trade, but for the most part he knew he could get away with some laughable trades... so why offer anything fair?

I'm a very nominal baseball fan, but from the sounds of it that might apply here.

 

[OHSportsFan]

believe it when I see it. When's the last time a player to be named later was a legit prospect???

Coco Crisp.

Also, sounds like Cleveland wants to see/evaluate more of Green at 2B, which the Brewers will showcase. Laporta+Green+Bryson (future closer) is a good deal. Jackson...first round bust...he's just along for the ride.

Realize that any team trading for C.C. knew they were only going to get around 15 starts out of him. 15 starts and he'll walk at the end of the year, yet Cleveland managed to get the #1 prospect in the Brewers org (a very good organization right now) that will produce for years.

Throw in a good relief arm who is only 20 years old and a good looking 2B/3B prospect and it isn't as bad as some of you are making it, as a matter of fact it is pretty good.

Just my opinion.

edit- And Green, who is likely to be the PTBNL, is ranked around the #5 or #6 player in the system. The #1 and #5/#6 prospect for 15 starts that Cleveland obviously does not need this year is very good.

 

[Gatorubet]

Well, this biased Gator thinks that Matt will wind up being a very good get for y'all. He is a very fundamentally sound ball player. His upside is impressive, but he also looks like he'd be able to contribute some time sooner than others from that signing class.

Congrats.

 

[NFBuck]

This reminds me of elementary school, trading football cards (with me new to the whole thing) with an experienced collector. Every once in awhile I would pull off an adequate trade, but for the most part he knew he could get away with some laughable trades... so why offer anything fair?

I'm a very nominal baseball fan, but from the sounds of it that might apply here.

So long as you represent the Indians, pretty much....yep.

Also, sounds like Cleveland wants to see/evaluate more of Green at 2B, which the Brewers will showcase. Laporta+Green+Bryson (future closer) is a good deal. Jackson...first round bust...he's just along for the ride.

Realize that any team trading for C.C. knew they were only going to get around 15 starts out of him. 15 starts and he'll walk at the end of the year, yet Cleveland managed to get the #1 prospect in the Brewers org (a very good organization right now) that will produce for years.

Throw in a good relief arm who is only 20 years old and a good looking 2B/3B prospect and it isn't as bad as some of you are making it, as a matter of fact it is pretty good.

Just my opinion.

edit- And Green, who is likely to be the PTBNL, is ranked around the #5 or #6 player in the system. The #1 and #5/#6 prospect for 15 starts that Cleveland obviously does not need this year is very good.

I've said if Green is the other prospect, I'm okay with it. LaPorta was obviously the big fish, but I'd like another position player as that is of dire need right now. Bullpen prospects are a dime a dozen and probably the most hit or miss type of prospect. You can't settle for a RP prospect and a toss in...you just can't. Hopefully Green is the PTBNL.

Well, this biased Gator thinks that Matt will wind up being a very good get for y'all. He is a very fundamentally sound ball player. His upside is impressive, but he also looks like he'd be able to contribute some time sooner than others from that signing class.

Congrats.

I agree, and I'm quite happy to get him if not the trade as a whole.

 

[OHSportsFan]

I've said if Green is the other prospect, I'm okay with it. LaPorta was obviously the big fish, but I'd like another position player as that is of dire need right now. Bullpen prospects are a dime a dozen and probably the most hit or miss type of prospect. You can't settle for a RP prospect and a toss in...you just can't. Hopefully Green is the PTBNL.

Fair enough. A PTBNL, while usually a scrub, can every once in a while be an impact player. In this case, it will be. The Tribe want to see him tested out at 2B. I wouldn't mind him staying at 3B, b/c I see no one else in the system that can play there...but Shapiro wants him at 2B it seems.

Also, it is going to be weird not seeing C.C. in a Tribe uniform. I guess it was inevitable, but never really thought of C.C. as anything but an Tribe player. He was great for the team and city. Got a lot of innings and a lot of wins out of him, but he outgrew (no pun intended :p) the market.

Good luck to him as a Brewer. I'd rather the Brewers come out of the NL than any other team. Anyone up for a Milwaukee/Tampa Bay WS?