I HATE Christmas

[Brewtus]

These are all things that don't really matter. Christmas is the day to celebrate God's greatest gift to the world, his Son, who came and lived on the earth to later die on the cross to save sinners like us.

At its core that may be true, but Christmas now has turned into a 6 week secular holiday. Very little of what's celebrated at Christmas (Santa, elves, Christmas trees, reindeer, eggnog, light displays, stockings, mistletoe, candy canes, etc.) has any relevance to the birth of Christ. And if you want to go far enough back, the holiday season is really a Roman pagan celebration (Saturnalia) and only in the 4th century did some Christian leaders decide to make Dec. 25 the official birthday of Christ in an attempt to convert the pagans to Christianity.

I choose to celebrate a secular Christmas which means spending a day or two before the 25th with family and friends and exchanging a few gifts. But I agree with the others who hate this time of year. I generally don't like people anyway but this time of year is even worse. Everyone is so uptight, the malls, traffic and restaurants/bars are way too crowded and I'm sick of hearing xmas songs everywhere for 1 1/2 months. And the 25th is the worst day of all - the only place open is movie theaters and all the bars are closed on the day when I really need to get out of the house for a good night of drinking.

 

[Jake]

These are all things that don't really matter. Christmas is the day to celebrate God's greatest gift to the world, his Son, who came and lived on the earth to later die on the cross to save sinners like us.

Well, that's one theory.

 

[BayBuck]

At its core that may be true, but Christmas now has become enshrouded within a 6 week secular holiday.

FIFY

Christmas is still Christmas, it's just surrounded by all the crap that's a part of our lives, turned up to 11 for the month of December. We're an extremely materialistic society and marketers have convinced us this is a great time of year to really celebrate excess.

 

[Brewtus]

FIFY

Christmas is still Christmas, it's just surrounded by all the crap that's a part of our lives, turned up to 11 for the month of December. We're an extremely materialistic society and marketers have convinced us this is a great time of year to really celebrate excess.

That may be true for now but as society becomes more secular and less Christian, Christmas may eventually turn into a strictly secular holiday like Halloween which at one time used be a religious celebration. It may take decades and I think the hype around Christmas will still be larger than Halloween, but that is where the trend is heading.

 

[Boostinlsj]

These are all things that don't really matter. Christmas is the day to celebrate God's greatest gift to the world, his Son, who came and lived on the earth to later die on the cross to save sinners like us.

 

[AKAK]

That may be true for now but as society becomes more secular and less Christian, Christmas may eventually turn into a strictly secular holiday like Halloween which at one time used be a religious celebration. It may take decades and I think the hype around Christmas will still be larger than Halloween, but that is where the trend is heading.

I think that's what he's saying.

 

[BayBuck]

That may be true for now but as society becomes more secular and less Christian, Christmas may eventually turn into a strictly secular holiday like Halloween which at one time used be a religious celebration. It may take decades and I think the hype around Christmas will still be larger than Halloween, but that is where the trend is heading.

Nah, not unless Christianity disappears from society altogether. The religious element of Christmas as the celebration of the symbolic day of Christ's birth is not going anywhere as long as Christian churches hold services in December (just as All Saints Day is still observed by Catholics and other denominations in spite of the candy hangover from Halloween). It's not just Christmastime when it's hard to see the light under the bushel, but you may be right that society is working hard to turn this into a purely secular "holiday".

 

[Brewtus]

Nah, not unless Christianity disappears from society altogether. The religious element of Christmas as the celebration of the symbolic day of Christ's birth is not going anywhere as long as Christian churches hold services in December (just as All Saints Day is still observed by Catholics and other denominations in spite of the candy hangover from Halloween). It's not just Christmastime when it's hard to see the light under the bushel, but you may be right that society is working hard to turn this into a purely secular "holiday".

I don't think Christianity will disappear entirely anytime soon, but I do see it evolving in the next 100 years or so into something that is very different than what we see today. Something like 30% of people under age 30 don't associate themselves with any religion so Christianity will have to somehow reinvent itself to get more young members or risk dying off.

And Christmas is turning into more of a secular holiday not only due to the commercialism of it but also because society as a whole is becoming less Christian and Christians in general are becoming less devout.

 

[AKAK]

At its core that may be true, but Christmas now has turned into a 6 week secular holiday. Very little of what's celebrated at Christmas (Santa, elves, Christmas trees, reindeer, eggnog, light displays, stockings, mistletoe, candy canes, etc.) has any relevance to the birth of Christ. And if you want to go far enough back, the holiday season is really a Roman pagan celebration (Saturnalia) and only in the 4th century did some Christian leaders decide to make Dec. 25 the official birthday of Christ in an attempt to convert the pagans to Christianity.

I choose to celebrate a secular Christmas which means spending a day or two before the 25th with family and friends and exchanging a few gifts. But I agree with the others who hate this time of year. I generally don't like people anyway but this time of year is even worse. Everyone is so uptight, the malls, traffic and restaurants/bars are way too crowded and I'm sick of hearing xmas songs everywhere for 1 1/2 months. And the 25th is the worst day of all - the only place open is movie theaters and all the bars are closed on the day when I really need to get out of the house for a good night of drinking.

FIFY

Christmas is still Christmas, it's just surrounded by all the crap that's a part of our lives, turned up to 11 for the month of December. We're an extremely materialistic society and marketers have convinced us this is a great time of year to really celebrate excess.

That may be true for now but as society becomes more secular and less Christian, Christmas may eventually turn into a strictly secular holiday like Halloween which at one time used be a religious celebration. It may take decades and I think the hype around Christmas will still be larger than Halloween, but that is where the trend is heading.

Nah, not unless Christianity disappears from society altogether. The religious element of Christmas as the celebration of the symbolic day of Christ's birth is not going anywhere as long as Christian churches hold services in December (just as All Saints Day is still observed by Catholics and other denominations in spite of the candy hangover from Halloween). It's not just Christmastime when it's hard to see the light under the bushel, but you may be right that society is working hard to turn this into a purely secular "holiday".

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure what you guys are arguing about. Christmas as a relgious holiday WAY outpunches its weight. As does Hannukah, as does Kwaanza (to the degree that it was only invented to compete with Christmas, as christmas was to Saturnalia).

I suppose Christmas might be the second most important Christian Holiday (Depending if you count the events around Easter in one), but, it's even a distant second. I don't think Hannukah makes top 5. Add in a bazillion other winter solstice festivals and you have a great big party for all sorts of folks at the end of December. So, as far as Secularizing, I mean, it always was, its just a in a "mostly" Christian country, you're gonna have a conglomerate winter festival with Christmas out in front.

 

[AKAK]

I don't think Christianity will disappear entirely anytime soon, but I do see it evolving in the next 100 years or so into something that is very different than what we see today. Something like 30% of people under age 30 don't associate themselves with any religion so Christianity will have to somehow reinvent itself to get more young members or risk dying off.

And Christmas is turning into more of a secular holiday not only due to the commercialism of it but also because society as a whole is becoming less Christian and Christians in general are becoming less devout.

... in America.


Having said that, you're I think you're overstating the impact that religion actually has on the "holiday", probably.

Edit to put quotes on holiday.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

There is a better way.

 

[Brewtus]

... in America.


Having said that, you're I think you're overstating the impact that religion actually has on the "holiday", probably.

Edit to put quotes on holiday.

Well, is there really any other country that matters more in the world than America? :)

And as BayBuck mentioned, the "holiday" season is still anchored by Christmas and the Christian religion. It may be more secular now, but I know that the church's around me are absolutely packed on the 24th and 25th so there are still a lot of people going through the religious motions.

 

[AKAK]

Well, is there really any other country that matters more in the world than America? :)

And as BayBuck mentioned, the "holiday" season is still anchored by Christmas and the Christian religion. It may be more secular now, but I know that the church's around me are absolutely packed on the 24th and 25th so there are still a lot of people going through the religious motions.

But that's where you start parsing between tradition, ritual and belief. Point is, even if you're right about your "future of Christianity" the churches may still be packed for a long time to come. What motions are they going through do you think? The ritual and tradition is important and powerful in its own right.

 

[Brewtus]

But that's where you start parsing between tradition, ritual and belief. Point is, even if you're right about your "future of Christianity" the churches may still be packed for a long time to come. What motions are they going through do you think? The ritual and tradition is important and powerful in its own right.

I think a growing number of people attend church due to tradition, a sense of community and for their children but don't believe most of what is preached to them. At least that is what I've read from several different sources. In fact I have an atheist relative who attends church regularly so she and her children can be accepted into the small community where they live. She isn't open about her atheism but thinks it's important for her children to feel a part of their small town and would be outcast if anyone knew they were atheist. I don't have any personal experience with that but would be interested in what other Christians see happening in their churches.

 

[AKAK]

I think a growing number of people attend church due to tradition, a sense of community and for their children but don't believe most of what is preached to them. At least that is what I've read from several different sources. In fact I have an atheist relative who attends church regularly so she and her children can be accepted into the small community where they live. She isn't open about her atheism but thinks it's important for her children to feel a part of their small town and would be outcast if anyone knew they were atheist. I don't have any personal experience with that but would be interested in what other Christians see happening in their churches.

Not really a road I want to go down. I mean, we'll go straight to look at that builiding full of Mormons that think they're Christians.... no thanks.

As to "growing number" - I bet its always been that way. What you're describing is that people aren't being more or less religious, they are being more or less freed from social pressures to act a certain way. Yeah, I dunno, mabye, I guess. On the other hand regardless of your firends belief, you outline the power of the institution.

Here's what I'd say, check your churches out at Easter, and Check them out for Christmas Eve, or whatever... if the Christmas Eve is better attended, there's probably a good anecdotal result. There's a church at the end of my street, but, they're packed all the time for everything it seems. So, full is full. (that and I don't care that much to look).

But here's the thing, every year they have a festival to raise money... its crowded as hell... every year. Rain, Shine, whatever. I go every year, take my kid, gamble, drink beer... has nothing to do with belief. But, its an "institution" - so people go. (And, yeah, I don't mind drinking and gambling for the benefit of Jesus... why not? )