I am not all in

[SmoovP]

Flat sucks that this is going on the same time y'all are going to win a NC in basketball.

I think we can all agree that if not for lawyers, none of this bad stuff happens.

Lawyers ruin everything

 

[Nicknam4]

Flat sucks that this is going on the same time y'all are going to win a NC in basketball.

I think we can all agree that if not for lawyers, none of this bad stuff happens.

 

[SloopyHangOn]

On the field, I've almost always been "all in" because the guy can flat out coach.

Off the field, I've always been a bit skeptical - yes he's good with discipline when it's Marcel Frost or Erik Haw or James Scott or some other non-contributor ... but he has allowed far too many star players to tarnish his reputation, going all the way back to Ray Isaacs at YSU, and of course MoC, Troy, and now Pryor here at tOSU. I do believe that JT is a high character guy in most respects, but it does appear that he has occasional bouts of wilfull ignorance, especially when an irreplaceable player is concerned.

This. It's one of the risks of being a quality man with one of the top D-1 coaching jobs; problematic young men tend to flock your way and you've got to deal with them the BEST way. I wouldn't call this situation the WRONG way, but it was far from the best.

Gator, with all due respect to you personally, we differ greatly from the SEC in terms of what we consider to be appropriate and ethical behavior, as shown by the recruiting debate that has raged here. I happen to be among those who think that the SEC stinks to high heaven.

I am not naive. I realize the potential motivations that might have driven Tressel toward self-interest and skullduggery. I also realize that no laws were broken and that the culprits were punished already. So, now we are supposed to be ready to throw Tressel out the door, as some sanctimonious idiots suggest?

Well, before we do that, I want to see a host of really unethical people go. How about that Kentucky basketball coach in your beloved SEC? Would you really like to see the NCAA come into Florida with a fine-tooth comb?

Equal guilt is no defense. But just look at the shenanigans around the national champion, the Heisman trophy winner, the nonstop arrests at Iowa and Penn State, the Reggie Bush affair. I am tired of the hypocrisy and horse[Mark May] of the press. I am tired of an NCAA that does nothing but quickly rises when a program like Ohio State self-reports.

The tree must be judged by its fruit. Consider the influence that this man has had on the young men put in his care. Look at the fruit.

Incredibly poor judgement. Yes. An evil man who has cast a magic wand to hide behind a charade for more than a decade? No bloody way.

This. While I understand (and mostly agree) with Gator's assessments, I've already said my piece that the condescension and assumption that we're all too dimwitted to recognize that there are, in fact, opinions that do not align with those of an Ohio State football fan are unnecessary and borderline celebratory.

I have not lost any respect for the program and have not lost any respect for the men involved. What I have lost is the ability to assume that any issues that arise will be dealt with and handled the best way possible based upon the track record and the body of work the program and the men involved have elicited in the past.

On the grander scale (i.e. outside of tOSU fans) this is not a justification, but an excuse, to place Ohio State right beside everyone else in terms of corruption and self-serving practices. Anyone with the ability to look at it objectively will see that. Anyone who is simply looking for fodder to fuel their hate will not.

It seems to me that Gator's attempt to balance the conversation is based in laying out that opposite extreme and "reminding" us that it "will be" the public opinion.

With all due respect, buddy. Stop that shit.

Yes, absolutely it is. But I don't know who exactly puts that perception out there that Ohio State is better than everyone else. There are comments here and there from tOSU related people (like Gee and little sister of the poor), just as there are from Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame and USC folks. I don't think Buckeye's refrain from a reinforcement to the higher standards we place upon ourselves (in terms of violations, crimes, self-reporting etc.), but the elitism... I'm not sure if that's just jaded folks' perception from the Buckeyes or something that is legitimately out there from the Ohio State side of things.

Doesn't really matter. Its hard to fight folks' perception. Not that this situation helped at all, but I think most have had their opinion forged about how they view the Buckeyes long before March 8th, 2011.

To a lesser extent, this.

I firmly believe that if you can back it up, talk all the shit you can.

When it comes to affiliating myself with a university, I've always taken pride in being a Buckeye. Not solely because of the athletics, but because of the great academia and the integrity within the program. When the time comes to use these things as a means of distancing myself as a fan from those who claim allegiance to schools with a lesser reputation, I sure as hell take it.

With that being said, the general perception of the "Buckeye fan" is no different from that of a "Yankee fan" a "Duke fan" a "Red Sox fan" or a "Patriot fan".

They think we think we're better than them, when in reality they know we know our program makes it easy to claim that allegiance with pride.

In the end, I don't think this situation really changes many minds in terms of public perception of anyone associated with Ohio State.

Those that simply want to hate regardless of the situation will dismiss any and all of the facts and isolate the infractions and sensationalize them to all hell for the sole purpose of taking pot-shots.

Those that want to ignore and dismiss and effectively plug their ears and say "na-nana-na-naa naa, I can't hear you" will provide ample opportunity for the haters to pounce.

In the end, neither of those perspectives really mean shit.

However, those that want to take a look objectively can easily see that major mistakes were made, highly questionable actions were taken and will recognize that something was indeed afoul here. Those things are mostly undebatable and regardless of this, nothing here changes my opinions on Tressel, Smith, Gee or even the players involved (present and past).

With that said, does it really matter what The University's punishment is/was? That's all politicking and positioning anyway. The NCAA has the final say and I'm sure that everyone involved KNOWS that 2 games and a quarter million dollar fine is a joke on the practical end. What it says to ME, what it says to recruits and what it says to staff is that everyone from the top down supports one another. That's the only REAL thing that comes from the numbers and discipline laid out by Ohio State, is it not?

Knowing that, why does it even matter what Tressel's intentions were. We don't sign his checks, who would he be lying to? Public perception matters but it doesn't mean anything in regards to what is ACTUALLY going to happen to the program and to Tressel and I doubt that any NCAA punishment is going to be swayed by a few words said at a presser.

I don't think he's lying about making these choice out of fear for protecting his players, but I also think he's smart enough not to talk about the negative aspects of a very complex decision "on the record". We all know what he could have done, but I honestly can't say that I would have made a better decision and for that I can't think any less of him.

 

[Gatorubet]

Yes, absolutely it is. But I don't know who exactly puts that perception out there that Ohio State is better than everyone else.

Fans of the Ohio State University.

Mostly because they have an elite academic institution that is superior to most of the programs they face, and because they have a better athletic program than most of the programs they face. So it is not at all without justification....but it can be annoying.

And it is pretty much ubiquitous when dealing with your fan base. Not saying you are as bad as Notre Dame or Texas delusionals, or as bad as the Bama delusionals, who will respond to academic questions with "We got 13!!!!", but noticeable.

What I meant to say is, Haters gonna hate!

 

[heisman]

Just a question for those who stand in judgment. What part of JT owning up to the mistake, apologizing for it, and being punished accordingly are you not "all in" with? Have you ever made mistakes? After you made them, took accountability, and apologized, did your loved ones turn their back on you? If so, I totally understand your disdain for the situation. I, for one, was raised differently and have made my fair share, no, actually, a lion's share of mistakes in my life, and many of them have been multiples greater than anything the Tat 5 or JT have ever done. I wouldn't be where I am today without the forgiveness my family and friends have continually given me over the years. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

 

[Nicknam4]

Just a question for those who stand in judgment. What part of JT owning up to the mistake, apologizing for it, and being punished accordingly are you not "all in" with? Have you ever made mistakes? After you made them, took accountability, and apologized, did your loved ones turn their back on you? If so, I totally understand your disdain for the situation. I, for one, was raised differently and have made my fair share, no, actually, a lion's share of mistakes in my life, and many of them have been multiples greater than anything the Tat 5 or JT have ever done. I wouldn't be where I am today without the forgiveness my family and friends have continually given me over the years. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

I don't think Tressel ever actually straight up said "I am sorry."

 

[scarletngray]

Just a question for those who stand in judgment. What part of JT owning up to the mistake, apologizing for it, and being punished accordingly are you not "all in" with? Have you ever made mistakes? After you made them, took accountability, and apologized, did your loved ones turn their back on you? If so, I totally understand your disdain for the situation. I, for one, was raised differently and have made my fair share, no, actually, a lion's share of mistakes in my life, and many of them have been multiples greater than anything the Tat 5 or JT have ever done. I wouldn't be where I am today without the forgiveness my family and friends have continually given me over the years. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

Excellent post!

Someone once told me "always question your own self-righteousness". It was good advice then and it is good advice now. I would encourage others to do the same.

:osu:

 

[Elephant]

Who gives a damn if he gets on tv and cries his eyes out to buckeye nation begging for forgiveness and saying sorry. The times I have met JT are enough for me to believe he is a good guy with a good heart. Really don't give a hoot if he slipped up. I am still going to be a fan of his, the great university, and the state of Ohio.

 

[Gatorubet]

It seems to me that Gator's attempt to balance the conversation is based in laying out that opposite extreme and "reminding" us that it "will be" the public opinion.

With all due respect, buddy. Stop that [Mark May].

I thought my intent was clear, and you have expressed it correctly - with the exception of "is" instead of "will be". You knew that the long knives would be out immediately. Hell, the fact Greg-uh Doyle was born and taught to type confirmes that truth.

Mea Culpa Sloop. But it is, I think, wrong to not respond to some who say that anyone outside the Buckeye family who now questions the reputation y'all have so painstaking and deservedly built are "idiots", when the sole reason for being idiots is that they won't agree with the vision of Coach Tressel or tOSU that y'all have.

It is easy to forget the simple fact that most folks do not follow you or your coach that much. I knew almost nothing about you or your program outside of a passing game when no SEC game could be found. Nobody knows a damn thing about Tressel or your team GPA or grad rate, or the arrest numbers or anything. Most know you win the Big-10 like clockwork. That you had a stretch of losing big games, and now you are on a winning streak. They may know of your past basketball coaching problems, but damn sure know that your present coach is awesome, and that you should contend for the NC in a few weeks. Most remember a little of MoC and Espn on your ass. Everybody remembers the recent Sugar Bowl, and most were skeptical of the decision to put off suspensions until 2011.

I'm sorry if you think it rude, but that is more than some folks know. And you can say that about Florida too. And any school. We ALL think that the "body of Work" of our coaches is special. But you know, nobody has a freaking clue about your or my or the other guy's program's coach, let alone the body of work as a good man and teacher and leader and role model. They just don't. So I was going after the attacks on outside folks for not being more generous to Tress and yall on this - because it makes the fanbase look ...well, not as good as it should.

I should have left it for a few days down the road, and not put that out when things were still so raw. My bad.

 

[osugrad21]

but it can be annoying.

So that is why you never bought the lady that wine you promised her?

Its all clear now. Your game is up Gator.

 

[Gatorubet]

So that is why you never bought the lady that wine you promised her?

Its all clear now. Your game is up Gator.

We shared a bottle later in private after her escort passed out. :p

What did she mean, "SEC Speed is not always a good thing!!"?

 

[Jaxbuck]

Just a question for those who stand in judgment. What part of JT owning up to the mistake, apologizing for it, and being punished accordingly are you not "all in" with?

I think I made it pretty clear in post #1 I am not "all in" with buying the story the athletic department is selling and I am not all in with the punishment being enough.

Have you ever made mistakes? After you made them, took accountability, and apologized, did your loved ones turn their back on you? If so, I totally understand your disdain for the situation. I, for one, was raised differently and have made my fair share, no, actually, a lion's share of mistakes in my life, and many of them have been multiples greater than anything the Tat 5 or JT have ever done. I wouldn't be where I am today without the forgiveness my family and friends have continually given me over the years. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

Get down off the cross, we need the wood.

The point of this thread was to avoid a trainwreck in the first thread about "standing with JT" by giving those with a dissenting opinion a place to to post it. Up till your post most people had been able to keep it that way but there is always someone.

If you feel strongly that everything was done properly, there are no lingering doubts about the story and this is all over with there is a thread for that. No need to come to this one, being snarky and looking for trouble.

 

[Jake]

Just a question for those who stand in judgment. What part of JT owning up to the mistake, apologizing for it, and being punished accordingly are you not "all in" with?

I can't speak for everyone but I feel like we're not being told the entire story. I'm more apt to forgive and forget when the person making the "mistake" comes clean about it. If it feels like they're still holding back something, I'm not as forgiving. BTW, I'm talking about Gee, Smith and Tressel. Not just Tressel.

That press conference was too lawyerish, so to speak, for me. I realize they don't want to spill their guts publicly given the NCAA still has to make its ruling, but until I hear an explanation that makes sense I'm waiting and seeing. What I heard last night sounded too naive and, frankly, dumb for me to believe it after seeing the emails. Those three men are not stupid. I want the entire truth, even if I have to wait a while for it.

 

[Jagdaddy]

Well, the perception out here is that OSU fan is a bit ... snooty.

Perhaps - probably - that snootiness is justified.

Your programs history of success, tradition, academic excellence, 'morality' (for lack of a better word) among other things, really does make OSU one of the elite teams in the country - as OSU fan is quick to remind anyone that will listen.

So when OSU does something that reveals that they too have feet made of clay, most of the people who have been on the receiving end of that snootiness are going to react. It's to be expected.

And you're right that it's hard to fight people's perceptions and it's probably not worth the trouble.

Most people are going to believe whatever the easy thing to believe is - which is generally whatever the media tells them to believe - without doing the legwork themselves to verify whether it is true.

I get frustrated with the perception that Bobby Petrino is an egg-sucking dog because of the way he left Atlanta. But I've given up on trying to change it.

The South thinks everybody from the North is snooty.

 

[Gatorubet]

The South thinks everybody from the North is snooty.

I find that statement to be snooty.