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How do you stop TTech?

NightmaresDad;1324270; said:
I agree with you that OK won't be able to stop TT, but I think they can outscore them.
There every well may be 100 points scored in this game.

If, like DaytonBuck said, you can limit them to a FG a couple of times, then maybe you can outscore them.

I just get the gut feeling that all these Big 12 high-powered offenses are going to really struggle in their Bowl games.
I think the Big 12 defenses are that weak.

That's what Virginia thought. Rylan Reed owned Chris Long all day long. Also, Tech's defense is much better than most give them credit for and it has improved every game. OU won't look nearly as explosive against Tech. That's not to say that we are going to dominate tehm because I don't think we will. I just think that our D-line is slightly better than OU's O-line. Their O-line is not quite as good as Tech's. They have given up 9 sacks and Tech has given up 5. Both of those are pretty good stats, but I don't think OU has faced a rushing D-line that is quite as good as Tech's either.

This game will be won in the trenches and I think that Tech matches up VERY well against the OU lines.
 
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faithfulraider;1324302; said:
That's what Virginia thought. Rylan Reed owned Chris Long all day long. Also, Tech's defense is much better than most give them credit for and it has improved every game. OU won't look nearly as explosive against Tech. That's not to say that we are going to dominate tehm because I don't think we will. I just think that our D-line is slightly better than OU's O-line. Their O-line is not quite as good as Tech's. They have given up 9 sacks and Tech has given up 5. Both of those are pretty good stats, but I don't think OU has faced a rushing D-line that is quite as good as Tech's either.

This game will be won in the trenches and I think that Tech matches up VERY well against the OU lines.

Your d line is really really impressive, big kids who play with a ton of fire.

But your o line is the real story. Talk about nasty! I haven't seen your o line let up much at all. Sure they tired a little towards the end of texas. But you rarely see total line failure with TT.

I'd trade you some delicious buckeye candies for your line coach. Deal?
 
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Joe56;1324322; said:
Your d line is really really impressive, big kids who play with a ton of fire.

But your o line is the real story. Talk about nasty! I haven't seen your o line let up much at all. Sure they tired a little towards the end of texas. But you rarely see total line failure with TT.

I'd trade you some delicious buckeye candies for your line coach. Deal?

The O-line coach is also my neighbor. He lives across the street from me. He has 3 girls and I have 2 girls. They all like to play with each other and my kids really didn't have any other girls in the neighborhood to play with until they moved in. So, NO you cannot have our line coach! :tongue2:

He was also a player (O-line) under Leach when he was at Valdosta. Great guy, very solid O-line coach that fully understands what is needed from line play in Leach's offense (probably any other offense as well). We have some really good line guys behind our starters and a couple of high touted recruits that have committed as well, so we should be solid on the O-line for a good while. The second teamers have gotten a lot of reps this season because Rylan and Vasquez were both injured at the beginning of the season so they will be ready to take over on the all-important left side when those guys are done this season.
 
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faithfulraider;1324302; said:
That's what Virginia thought. Rylan Reed owned Chris Long all day long.
Not so much. Long himself didn't get any sacks but UVA got to Harrell more than anyone has lately (three times, which still isn't spectacular), in great part due to the double teams Long drew. If you'd have actually singled up on Long all day it would have been ugly.
 
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NightmaresDad;1324270; said:
I agree with you that OK won't be able to stop TT, but I think they can outscore them.
There every well may be 100 points scored in this game.

If, like DaytonBuck said, you can limit them to a FG a couple of times, then maybe you can outscore them.

I just get the gut feeling that all these Big 12 high-powered offenses are going to really struggle in their Bowl games.
I think the Big 12 defenses are that weak.

with all due respect, Texas held Arkansas to 191 yards earlier this year. here's how the Razorbacks have fared against their SEC opponents:

Alabama (309)
Florida (361)
Auburn (416)
Kentucky (330)
Ole Miss (386)
S Carolina (309)

i realize it's a very small sample size, but it's the only SEC-Big XII matchup this year, and the Hogs fared considerably worse against Texas than they have against the vaunted SEC defenses...

and let's not forget what Mizzou did to Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl...
 
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lvbuckeye;1324392; said:
with all due respect, Texas held Arkansas to 191 yards earlier this year. here's how the Razorbacks have fared against their SEC opponents:

Alabama (309)
Florida (361)
Auburn (416)
Kentucky (330)
Ole Miss (386)
S Carolina (309)

i realize it's a very small sample size, but it's the only SEC-Big XII matchup this year, and the Hogs fared considerably worse against Texas than they have against the vaunted SEC defenses...

and let's not forget what Mizzou did to Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl...

So the fact that not one B12 D is ranked higher than OU's at #51 means that the offenses in the B12 are just sooooo good that they make any D look pathetic?
 
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Well, I'll offer another Tech perspective here. First of all, it's the defense and running game which have made this offense better than any we've had. Our RBs, Batch and Woods, are WAY underrated, as is our DL. The RBs have been so explosive that it prevents teams from dropping eight. The DL has generated enough consistent pressure to allow the secodary to play more aggressively and force more turnovers, giving the O even more possessions.

There is no real formula for stopping Leach's O that just any team can run. Honestly, there have been only two teams in the past five years or so who have truly "shut down" the offense. 2005 Alabama in the Cotton Bowl and 2006 TCU. Both this units were extremely athletic, fast, and talented. They both finished in the top 3 in both scoring defense and total defense in their respective years. So you generally have to have a pretty damn good D to start out with.

Alabama employed the "jam the WRs" strategy to perfection. I maintain that the officiating went too easy on the pass interference calls all day that game, but then again, there's a fine line between great pass D and PI, and credit goes to Bama for walking it successfully. We tried throwing too many fade patterns that day, and the Bama DBs nudged the WRs throughout the routes to where they never even got close to where the ball was being thrown. It was effective, and they held us to 10 points.

TCU went with the "hit them hard" strategy, and did it as well as anyone I've seen. They ran a 3-2-6, and managed to get pressure with a pair of good D-linemen in Chase Ortiz and Tommy Blake. And as is Gary Patterson's philosophy, he had a bunch of speedy DBs absolutely flying to the ball. They lit up a few of our guys, and there were some subsequent drops because of it. There were other factors, too, like how when any Big 12 team plays TCU, it's their superbowl b/c they have a chip on their shoulder for getting left out of the Big 12. It was one of Harrell's first few games, and we had our best WR out for that game. Still, their D clearly outplayed us that game, and held us to a mere FG.

More curious than those two games (after all, those were elite Ds) have been the struggles against Colorado and Missouri in 2006 and 2007. There may be something to their strategy, because they won by forcing turnovers. In fact, of Harrell's 30 career INTs, 13 have come from those two teams in those four games. Examining what they did reveals aggressive play which rattled Harrell. Graham's early years were marred by an overreliance on the right side of the field, and MU/CU figured it out.

MU got their hands up and batted a bunch of passes in these games. Part of the reason for our wide o-line splits is to create passing lanes, and MU got their hands up and made things tough. They also had a pair of great DBs in Cornelius Brown and William Moore. CU similarly had Terrence Wheatley, who I thought was maybe the best defender in football last year. He held Crabtree in check in 07, which tells you how good he was. Colorado's strategy was more about jumping routes. It was a pick 6 by Jordan Dizon, another good defender, that won the 07 game. The 2006 game was a game where we had both of our two best WRs out of the game, so I don't know what's to be taken from that.

After further analysis, the formula, I guess, is to have a couple of extremely talented defenders who can fly to the ball without giving up too many big plays, along with a DL who can still generate pressure/deflect passes. It also helps if some of our starting WRs don't play. Other than that, it's been pretty damn tough to even slow us down, which has contributed in large part to the proliferation of the spread within the Big 12 and beyond.

I've never much bought into the "control the clock to keep Tech's O off the field" idea, but Nebraska almost pulled it off against us this year. I must stress that they executed it perfectly until the INT in OT, though, and I don't believe that's very imitable. Such a strategy requires NO turnovers and methodical scoring drives. Not to mention that you have to have the patience to not lean on the pass if/when you fall behind. NU only punted once against us, which is pretty much what you have to do, since we generally make the most of our possessions. Our O pretty much makes the time of possession stat obsolete, because we got more than doubled up in that department for this game and still won.

That said, I'm not sure if there is a gameplan to shut this 2008 Red Raider offense down. The backs are dangerous enough to keep defenses honest, Harrell seems to have overcome his flaws, and no one has had an answer for Crabtree and the rest of the deep receiving corps. And there hasn't been a game yet this year when our OL has been outplayed by the opposing DL. Strangely enough, I think that in terms of schematics/philosophy/personnel, the best defense to throw at Tech would be one along the lines of the one Ruffin McNeill has us running on D: a strong, aggressive DL with opportunistic DBs behind them making plays. After all, the D did win the Spring Game... The point is, you have to have a lot of things going well all at once to play really good defense against us. We have the talent now to create mismatches against pretty much anyone.

To correct a fallacy in this thread, the Big 12 isn't full of terrible defenses. It has average Ds matched up against talented, experienced QBs running offensive schemes which no one has really figured out how to consistently defend yet. And that's partly Leach's doing. The spread O is way ahead of the game if executed well, and the rest of the Big 12 took notice of our success and started opening up their schemes and putting more athletes on O. It's a trend that is spreading. (pardon the pun)

OU will be a tough matchup for sure. Thankfully, their D hasn't looked the same since losing Reynolds. Hs replacement, Austin Box, is very talented, but just isn't seasoned enough yet. If English/Davis also can't go, I'm liking our chances. Their secondary got lit up by KU, a team we just destroyed. I'm not too concerned with us being able to score on them. However, they could just as easily light our D up. They have the most talented O across the board that we will have played, and they've been coming out of the gate on fire this year. Seriously, look at some of their 1st quarters. Scary stuff. I'd put the chances of a Tech win at 55/45 right now, only because we've been unstoppable lately.

Winning in Norman when they've got revenge on their minds for 07 and every reason to bring their A-game will be no easy task. That said, the "60-2 in Norman" stat that Sooners keep chest-thumping is misleading because they get UT in the Cotton Bowl every year. If you take UT games away from our recent stats, it's pretty comparable. Not to mention that I hate pretending like the distant past impacts future games anyway. I wouldn't touch this game as a betting man, though. Maybe the over, depending on what it is.

If we win in Norman, then we better damn well be in the NC game. Of course, we've still got that whole conference championship game thing to worry about, too. (I won't launch into a diatribe about that, though, out of respect.) This, of course, assumes that we don't blow it against an upstart Baylor team, which would probably cause me to commit suicide. Anyway, I digress, and thanks for the mostly kind words. Hope my rant helped.
 
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There is no real formula for stopping Leach's O that just any team can run.
This quote is kind of why I started this thread. I realize there isn't a formula for any team.....but there has to be a way out there to stop this attack that can be employed by most Ds. there has to......or else this would have been done long ago.



right?
 
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BUCKYLE;1324397; said:
So the fact that not one B12 D is ranked higher than OU's at #51 means that the offenses in the B12 are just sooooo good that they make any D look pathetic?

but haven't they made every defense they've played look bad? what defense has looked good against the Big XII south? they have four of the top 7 highest rated QBs in the country? add Chase Daniel and the Big XII has 5 of the top 7 overall... i guess TTechs D made Colt McCoy look bad for about 2 1/2 quarters, but...

like i said, it's a very small sample size. the fact of the matter is that Arkansas didn't even crack 200 yards against Texas, and has gone over 300 agaist EVERY SEC defense they've faced. look what DMC and Felix Jones did when they tore the SEC up last year. they managed to combine for 31 carries and 150 yards against a Missouri team that struggled against Big XII offenses. on the flip side, Mizzouri RBs rushed the ball 29 times for 320 yards on the Hogs...

so yeah, to answer your question, i really do think that the offenses of TTech, Texas, OU, OkState and Mizzou are really that good. i really do think they would make every defense they face look foolish. that's exactly what they did last year when they had four top ten teams in the final polls... more than any ofher conference. :wink:

where do you think our defense would rank nationally if we had to play those five teams in an 8 week span?
 
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DontHateOState;1324454; said:
I wouldn't mind playing TT in a BCS bowl. I think we match up well with them.


I don't think Ohio State's O-Line can protect well enough to beat Tech. No disrespect intended, but your guys have allowed 23 sacks on the season while we have 5. You can argue all you want about the defenses you face being different (and they probably are), but when you throw the ball 463 times and only allow 5 sacks, you're doing something right. We have faced some pretty good defenses (even in bowl games) and our O-line just keeps protecting...while our defense (this season) just keeps sacking and pressuring QB's.

We seem to be about the same on turnovers(24 apiece). Although you have had 19 sacks, like I said, you haven't faced the Tech O-Line. This line is NFL caliber and is not likely to give up much.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind facing Ohio State if for no other reason than to try and gain a little revenge from the beatdown we received from your NC team. And please, don't mistake my confidence in my team for arrogance, because we haven't been in this position before so I have nothing to be arrogant about. I just know that this team is special and it is the best team I have ever seen wear the red and black (and I've been watching them for 35 years or more.
 
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DontHateOState;1324454; said:
I wouldn't mind playing TT in a BCS bowl. I think we match up well with them.

Having seen their D-line play, I want no part of them. Their D-line would pants our O-line.

And on the other side of the ball, which is the point of this thread, what you need to stop the TT scheme is an absolutely lights-out dominant Defensive Line. I agree with those who have said that there isn't a scheme that just anyone can run that can slow them down. You have to have a KILLER front four.

IMO we proved that in 2002. We slowed them down pretty well; and that was before Chris Gamble moved to cornerback.

I harbor no illusions that the 2002 Red Raiders could hold the jock of the '08 variety. But the '08 variety has not faced a D-line in the same zip code as the '02 Buckeyes. Don't even get me started on Orackpo or however you spell it... The 'Horns D-line isn't a shadow of what we put on the field in '02.

The point is; the '08 Red Raiders could be slowed down enough that a good offense could outscore them. The problem is, Ohio State circa 2008 has neither the defensive line to slow them down nor the offensive line to outscore them.

JMHO
 
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faithfulraider;1324512; said:
I don't think Ohio State's O-Line can protect well enough to beat Tech. No disrespect intended, but your guys have allowed 23 sacks on the season while we have 5. You can argue all you want about the defenses you face being different (and they probably are), but when you throw the ball 463 times and only allow 5 sacks, you're doing something right. We have faced some pretty good defenses (even in bowl games) and our O-line just keeps protecting...while our defense (this season) just keeps sacking and pressuring QB's.

We seem to be about the same on turnovers(24 apiece). Although you have had 19 sacks, like I said, you haven't faced the Tech O-Line. This line is NFL caliber and is not likely to give up much.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind facing Ohio State if for no other reason than to try and gain a little revenge from the beatdown we received from your NC team. And please, don't mistake my confidence in my team for arrogance, because we haven't been in this position before so I have nothing to be arrogant about. I just know that this team is special and it is the best team I have ever seen wear the red and black (and I've been watching them for 35 years or more.

I would not want to face you guys this season. Your offense scares me too much.
 
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HailToMichigan;1324377; said:
Not so much. Long himself didn't get any sacks but UVA got to Harrell more than anyone has lately (three times, which still isn't spectacular), in great part due to the double teams Long drew. If you'd have actually singled up on Long all day it would have been ugly.

While you may be right, we doubled Long because he was THAT good. When he was doubled, I believe he was attacking the right side of the line. Rylan Reed handled him one on one. They put Long at every spot along the line to test it for weakness. The sacks they got were due to some very good secondary play, by keeping receivers covered long enough to break down the protection. There weren't really any "line-dominating" type sacks in that game.
 
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