HOF Classes: 2007, 2008 (official thread)

[The Man]

I could have ran the ball for Dallas with the line they had. I agree he was a good back though. I'd like to have seen him play for the Lions in Sander's day or the Bears in Sweetness's.

Agree about the Dallas OL it was probably the best in history. I classify Emmitt as a very good RB, not great. IMO He is not in the discussion w/ Sanders, Brown, Payton, etc as greatest ever.

 

[tibor75]

Wow, not sure how you say the guy with the most rushing yards in NFL history was not all that great. You can certainly debate he was not the greatest, but to say he was not all that great is ridiculous.

Yes, "not that great" in the sense that he's not as great as people make him out to be, i.e. the best of all time.

 

[gost8]

Really???? Really???

Yeah, well... no, not really. But my point was,they did have 4-5 pro-bowl linemen for a lot of years.

 

[Big Papa]

I could have ran the ball for Dallas with the line they had. I agree he was a good back though. I'd like to have seen him play for the Lions in Sander's day or the Bears in Sweetness's.

Typical argument against Emmitt. Which is fine, because I believe having a good line is important, but you still have to grind out the yards. I spent years watching him being a Cowboys fan and I can tell you he did more than just run through the hole and get tackled. He ran hard and smart. He was a winner and one of the greatest of all time. Without him, no doubt the Cowboys were not nearly as successful. The Lions never had any success with Barry, and he never played behind a terrible line. He had other skill players around him, and he typically was a dud in the big games. Something Emmitt excelled in. Sweetness is another story, he was just incredible, though you really IMO can not say he was better than Emmitt. Regardless, when you talk about the best all time, those three make up the top 5 IMO.

 

[Big Papa]

Agree about the Dallas OL it was probably the best in history. I classify Emmitt as a very good RB, not great. IMO He is not in the discussion w/ Sanders, Brown, Payton, etc as greatest ever.

There are many people out there who would disagree with you, me being one of them. I made my case about Sanders and Payton above, and IMO Jim Brown WAS the best ever.

 

[The Man]

There are many people out there who would disagree with you, me being one of them.

and there are many people who disagree about Emmitt being in the conversation, me being one of them. You said you are a Cowboy fan, therefore you aren't going to agree with me on Emmitt. I would put Emmitt top 10, but not top 5 probably.

 

[buckeyepup]

charlie sanders???

wtf - remember him as an above avg rec te nothing more - wehrli along with mel blount best two cb of the 70's - still amazed that ken anderson has never come close - if you compare his stats from 1973-1982 to his peers he ranks as a top 3 qb over and above bradshaw, griese, stabler etc.(staubach and fouts being the other two)

 

[gost8]

Without him, no doubt the Cowboys were not nearly as successful. The Lions never had any success with Barry, and he never played behind a terrible line. He had other skill players around him, and he typically was a dud in the big games.

Not a typical argument.. its the truth.

Put Barry on that Dallas team and the rushing record would be so far out of sight no would even try for better than second.

So if the Lions never had any success then how many big games did he play in?

Name one guy that ever played on the Lions OL during Barry's career (without looking it up.) Defense's came into every game with stopping Barry as their #1 priority.

 

[Big Papa]

Not a typical argument.. its the truth.

Put Barry on that Dallas team and the rushing record would be so far out of sight no would even try for better than second.

So if the Lions never had any success then how many big games did he play in?

Name one guy that ever played on the Lions OL during Barry's career (without looking it up.) Defense's came into every game with stopping Barry as their #1 priority.

Here's one glaring example, this was from a playoff game, 13 rushes for -1 yards. Find me one of the other top 10 backs of all-time that put up a line like that in a playoff game. Plus, we are talking about an NFL offensive line, if you expect me to believe that in all the years that the Lions had Barry before he quit, they never put a decent OL in front of him, knowing that Barry was their best player and they were only as good as him, not even Matt Millen is that stupid and inept. Not to mention the guy just walked away from the game in his prime and healthy. Just stupid to waste his talent like that.

1994 gnb L,12-16 | 13 -1 0 | 3 4 0

 

[gost8]

Not to mention the guy just walked away from the game in his prime and healthy. Just stupid to waste his talent like that.

Some might say it is more stupid to stick around after you're over the hill

 

[Big Papa]

Some might say it is more stupid to stick around after you're over the hill

True, but IMO is better than turning your back on your team.

 

[BUCKYLE]

IMO, Emmitt Smith is one of the most overrated RB's in the history of Football.

 

[gost8]

Instead of talking about one game lets put some numbers together. In 15 seasons Emmitt carried the ball 4409 times for 18355 yards for a ypc of 4.2 yards
In 10 seasons Barry had 15269 yards on 3062 carries. Thats an even 5 ypc. Lets give Barry the extra carries and see what would have happened.
It would come out to 22045 yards!!! On a shittier team with bad to average OL every year year. Never a good or even decent QB. Herman Moore was probably the best other skilled player they ever had whom only really had 4 good seasons.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Instead of talking about one game lets put some numbers together. In 15 seasons Emmitt carried the ball 4409 times for 18355 yards for a ypc of 4.2 yards
In 10 seasons Barry had 15269 yards on 3062 carries. Thats an even 5 ypc. Lets give Barry the extra carries and see what would have happened.
It would come out to 22045 yards!!! On a shittier team with bad to average OL every year year. Never a good or even decent QB. Herman Moore was probably the best other skilled player they ever had whom only really had 4 good seasons.

And there it is.

The only OL from Detroit from the Barry Sanders era that I can remember is Mike Utley, and it ain't 'cause of his skillz. :p

 

[jwinslow]

Here's one glaring example, this was from a playoff game, 13 rushes for -1 yards.

If the guy can't gain a single yard on 13 tries, that might suggest there are some protection issues up front, right?

I'm glad you brought up the playoffs, b/c it demonstrates that barry was not the problem in most of the "big games." Someone forgot to give him the ball.
1991 dal W,38-6 | 12 69 1 | 5 30 0
1991 was L,10-41 | 11 44 0 | 4 15 0
1993 gnb L,24-28 | 27 169 0 | 2 0 0
1994 gnb L,12-16 | 13 -1 0 | 3 4 0
1995 phi L,37-58 | 10 40 0 | 2 19 0
1997 tam L,10-20 | 18 65 0 | 5 43 0

Plus, we are talking about an NFL offensive line, if you expect me to believe that in all the years that the Lions had Barry before he quit, they never put a decent OL in front of him, knowing that Barry was their best player and they were only as good as him, not even Matt Millen is that stupid and inept. Not to mention the guy just walked away from the game in his prime and healthy. Just stupid to waste his talent like that.

They didn't seem to live by that in the playoffs.

True, but IMO is better than turning your back on your team.

Pretty nasty thing to say about someone who stuck with a lousy team for a decade.