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Heisman 2012 vBet and discussion

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EidoloN;2254089; said:
Scary to think of next years Heisman race...Brax, Johnny Football (T A/M), De'Anthony Thomas (Ore), Marcus Mariota (Ore), Everett Golson (ND)...wow.
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1). why would Thomas and Golson even be on that list?

It's one thing to have stats but another to have highlights. Braxton will be a human highlight reel next year (not that he's not already this year).
 
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1). why would Thomas and Golson even be on that list?

It's one thing to have stats but another to have highlights.
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Golson - I take it you're new to this Heisman thing (McCarron, Dorsey). He shouldn't be there if the award made any sense, but it doesn't. McCarron only eclipsed 220 yds twice, once vs the horrific Vols and last night (his worst performance).

Thomas doesn't have highlights?! :yow1:
 
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jwinslow;2254208; said:
Golson - I take it you're new to this Heisman thing (McCarron, Dorsey).

Thomas doesn't have highlights?!
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For the year Golson is 131 for 226 for 1572 yds with 276 yds rushing. But you are welcome to keep the Golson for Heisman convo going.


I was referring more to the other QBs when talking about highlights. Thomas has less than 1000 yds of total offense so far this season. So yeah, I'm not sure what he's doing in the Heisman convo either.
 
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EidoloN;2254089; said:
Scary to think of next years Heisman race...
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WaitingforKickoff;2254211; said:
For the year Golson is 131 for 226 for 1572 yds with 276 yds rushing. But you are welcome to keep the Golson for Heisman convo going.

I was referring more to the other QBs when talking about highlights. Thomas has less than 1000 yds of total offense so far this season. So yeah, I'm not sure what he's doing in the Heisman convo either.
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McCarron had a paltry 1849 yds coming into yesterday yet he was a front runner (or close runner up) on most ballots. Golson will be the face of a preseason frontrunner and media darling.

Barner is gone in 2012 and Thomas has been a devastating runner, receiver and returner. It stands to reason he will step in nicely like Barner did for James.
 
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jwinslow;2254216; said:
McCarron had a paltry 1849 yds coming into yesterday yet he was a front runner (or close runner up) on most ballots. Golson will be the face of a preseason frontrunner and media darling.
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So you are comparing someone with good stats who's getting Heisman talk to someone with average stats getting no Heisman talk. Drive it home man, because none of this is making much sense.

Barner is gone in 2012 and Thomas has been a devastating runner, receiver and returner. It stands to reason he will step in nicely like Barner did for James.
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If your argument is that Thomas will carry Barner's torch as a Heisman candidate, I guess the problem is that we are not hearing that much about Barner being a candidate, especially after last night's game. And I don't see either player being in the same class as James.

I still stand by my original point that Braxton will be favored next year because of his highlights will separate him from the stats. Let's return the topic to Braxton.
 
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So you are comparing someone with good stats who's getting Heisman talk to someone with average stats getting no Heisman talk. Drive it home man, because none of this is making much sense.
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In what world are McCarron's numbers good (in the context of a heisman race, obviously he's having a fine year)? The only thing "good" about them is that he isn't throwing picks (which obviously ended yesterday).

He didn't face most of the elite SEC defenses yet he still throws for 180-219 yds almost every time. Clutch? Yup. Leader? Sure. Good numbers? No.

Golson is miles ahead of McCarron's production in year 1. He's not an elite Heisman contender but he'll be brought up if ND looks like another title contender.
If your argument is that Thomas will carry Barner's torch as a Heisman candidate, I guess the problem is that we are not hearing that much about Barner being a candidate, especially after last night's game. And I don't see either player being in the same class as James.
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Not hearing much? Really?

Coming off an outrageous 321 yd 5 TD pillaging of USC on national TV? (yes USC's defense is bad, but the media rarely values defense)

#2 - ESPN voters
#2 - CBS voters
#3 - CNNSI 1 journalist

Others:

Kenjon Barner rushes into Heisman consideration - Yahoo! News

More yahoo
I still stand by my original point that Braxton will be favored next year because of his highlights will separate him from the stats.
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He'll be favored because he is the face of a preseason title favorite on top of his highlight reel.
Let's return the topic to Braxton.
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Agreed. I'd move this to the heisman thread but I can't recall if merging messes up vbets.
 
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You were the one who brought McCarron into this convo to justify why Golson would be a Heisman poster child next year, even though the two players are nothing alike. You don't need my response here, because you are doing a pretty good job tearing down your own strawman.

So Thomas = Barner = James. Got it. I'm going to stop whatever I'm doing and start making the Dontre Wilson for 2016 Heisman posters.

Anyways, I'm still maintaining that Braxton Miller will be the 2013 Heisman favorite. I hope that's not too much to ask about here.
 
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You were the one who brought McCarron into this convo to justify why Golson would be a Heisman poster child next year, even though the two players are nothing alike.
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You were mystified why the QB of a preseason title contender would be a heisman candidate, so I brought up McCarron, who had pretty average numbers the year before.

McCarron - 202 yds per game in '11
Golson - 203 yds per game in '12 (including injury limited UM game, excluding missed BYU game)

Neither are deserving heisman contenders but the heisman stereotypes inflate their chances to be on the list.
You don't need my response here, because you are doing a pretty good job tearing down your own strawman.
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Of course. It's always easier to say 'your argument is invalid' than prove it wrong, especially when the challenge is to prove YOUR argument of his stats being good.
So Thomas = Barner = James. Got it. I'm going to stop whatever I'm doing and start making the Dontre Wilson for 2016 Heisman posters.
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Yeah, I'd switch to that strawman too after the 'not hearing much about Barner being a candidate' doozy.

Thomas got some Heisman chatter before this season (top-12 IIRC according to vegas odds). With Barner's high profile season and Oregon's title chase, Thomas will get more run for 2013.
Anyways, I'm still maintaining that Braxton Miller will be the 2013 Heisman favorite. I hope that's not too much to ask about here.
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Something I never argued with, but good work on the victim routine. Also neat since this little rabbit trail started with you finding fault with a flippant list of guys in the 2013 heisman race.
 
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EidoloN;2254323; said:
I agree Brax will start the preseason favorite, I'm just saying it will be a competitive race. All players I mentioned will be in conversation. Mark it down.

Back to Brax...
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I agree that the names will be thrown into the conversation, but "scary" is hardly how I would describe the competition, which was the premise of the original argument.

And yes, back to Brax....
 
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Brax will be the preseason favorite for sure, but to say along the lines of "it's his to lose" is incorrect on all levels. It will be a competitive race, and there are other great players playing for other pretty good teams.
 
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EidoloN;2254341; said:
Brax will be the preseason favorite for sure, but to say along the lines of "it's his to lose" is incorrect on all levels. It will be a competitive race, and there are other great players playing for other pretty good teams.
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Depending on what ND does for the rest of this season, I think the preseason "fav" could be a tossup between Golson, Brax and Johnny Football.

I honestly hate to admit it, but I think the inside track next season for the Heisman goes through College Station.
 
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I think Marcus Mariota will be the heisman candidate over D.Thomas or oregon. The kid has I think 30 total TDs for Oregon already.

The only reason McCarron was up for the heisman because he was "the best player of the best team" (even though hes not the best player on bama) his stats were mediocre. I have no idea why the hell he was up for the heisman.

I think the preseason favorite for next year will probably be Braxton. He wont be facing SEC defenses, much easier competition for him compared to Manziel.I think both will put up big stats.
 
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