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Gym Hardblob, Recruiting Genius

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BUCKYLE said:
I'd be shocked if TSUN doesn't land a top ten class next year. Guess we'll find out.
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I'm fairly certain from reading some of the above posts that the 35th ranked class will now be the norm. Harbaugh has no strength to his name and neither does Michigan apparently. Michigan will rue the day they let Hoke walk since he, and only he, could get Michigan into a top 5/10 recruiting class.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
First off, perhaps Shaw's classes were better because the Stanford program had been rebuilt and was coming off a 12-1 season whereas Harbaugh had to rebuild the entire program and come off a 1-11 season? Eh probably not.
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Try looking at Buckeye86's post again. Shaw's best class was his second season after taking over and his next-best class was a full four years after taking over, so to imply that his recruiting was a direct result of Harbaugh's one great season is off the mark.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
I'd recommend using the 247 composite since it pulls in all of the recruiting services numbers and calculates a composite number which helps eliminate any bias any one service may have. FYI OSU is #6. Having said that, I'm basing it off of A) Michigan's brand name (I mean hell hoke recruited like an animal his first couple full classes) B) Harbaugh's name, and C) as I said it would have to be a fuller class (at least low 20's). Regarding their current recruiting class and their poor numbers, I wouldn't compare them to what you're going to get next year. He had literally no relationships built, and less than a month before signing day. Urban had over 2 months and had the benefit of the PSU situation (take out Noah Spence, Tommy schutt, cam Williams, armani reeves, and Joe O'Conner and look at that class ranking). So if they have the numbers, yes I'd be absolutely shocked if they aren't top 10.
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A month ago, I probably would've been on board. But I think it's becoming clear that Harbaugh himself just isn't a very good recruiter. And most of the NFL rejects he's hired don't seem to be either. I think too much has been made of Stanford being a hurdle. Shaw's had 1 bad class but otherwise done a better job recruiting than Harbaugh. Hoke was good at telling kids whatever they wanted to hear and selling them on a Summer Camp atmosphere that breeds such quotes as "Winning is just a statistic" because just by going to Michigan they're already winners. It was almost like a litmus test to find the kids who just wanted to cash in on the hard work in HS for some time in the ... snow? ... and a degree.
I put it at 11-20.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Try looking at Buckeye86's post again. Shaw's best class was his second season after taking over and his next-best class was a full four years after taking over, so to imply that his recruiting was a direct result of Harbaugh's one great season is off the mark.
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Didn't mean that it was based off of the one great year, but rather Shaw's entire coaching career at Stanford has come while they are relevent...which has come about due to Harbaugh (and maybe more so due to Luck as many may argue if you want to give little credit to Harbaugh). In other words, how is anyone to say that the recruiting classes at Stanford under Shaw would or wouldn't have been even better if they were under Harbaugh had he stayed?

For example, Sumlin has been raking in top classes ever since Manziel. If Sumlin would have left for a different school right after Manziel and the next coach was pulling in those classes, would we then say that clearly the next coach was a master recruiter and Sumlin sucked, or would it be possible that Sumlin left before he could realize the bump in recruiting caused by his improvement of the program?
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
A) keep telling yourself their brand isn't good. Hoke was pulling in top 5/10 classes his first couple of full classes, and that was right on the heels of the Rich Rod mess.
B) If your expectations on their 2016 class are based on his 2015 you will be disappointed. He had less than a month to pull together anything from a [Mark May] 90th overrated class. I thought he'd get them inside the top 30, maybe around 25, but he did fall a little short around 35. But if you drop Urban in his exact same position I think he would fair slightly better, but not much. Urban came in and turned an OK class into a great class by having over 2 months and the Penn state implosion. Harbaugh came in with a putrid class, less than 1 month, and no major program to poach recruits from.
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A lot of time until the 2016 NSD, you're right scUM still has a brand. But top 10 seems quite high,and I don't see Harbaugh getting more than 8 wins next season. This year will show his recruiting prowess and ability to rebuild
 
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I think, in time, Harbrau will recruit just fine up there. However, whiffing on this class will impact them...if not immediately, then down the road. You cannot "punt" on an entire class and not feel the effects in today's CFB world. Look at scum the past two seasons for evidence of that. Their 2011 class that bridged the dickrod/hoke changeover was largely a massive failure, and that played a major role in their miserable performance the past two seasons.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
Didn't mean that it was based off of the one great year, but rather Shaw's entire coaching career at Stanford has come while they are relevent...which has come about due to Harbaugh (and maybe more so due to Luck as many may argue if you want to give little credit to Harbaugh). In other words, how is anyone to say that the recruiting classes at Stanford under Shaw would or wouldn't have been even better if they were under Harbaugh had he stayed?
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And just how do you know that Shaw wouldn't have had similar recruiting success even if Harbaugh hadn't preceded him?
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
And just how do you know that Shaw wouldn't have had similar recruiting success even if Harbaugh hadn't preceded him?
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Not that Harbaugh specifically preceded him, but the situation he was left with. You think you're comparing apples to apples with Harbaugh and Shaw but you are really comparing apples to oranges. Let's look at it this way and guess who has a better chance of having better recruiting classes:

HC #1: Takes over a laughing stock of a program coming off of a 1-11 season. slowly makes them respectable, but it takes a couple of years. 4-8 his first year, 5-7 his second before getting to 8-5 and 12-1 in his 3rd and 4th season. He then left. As most know, you don't typically get a jump in recruiting until the year AFTER a great season (if any jump in recruiting the year of the great season, typically marginal).

HC #2: Took over after a shitty program became relevant and came off of the 12-1 season. That's really it I guess.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
Not that Harbaugh specifically preceded him, but the situation he was left with. You think you're comparing apples to apples with Harbaugh and Shaw but you are really comparing apples to oranges. Let's look at it this way and guess who has a better chance of having better recruiting classes:

HC #1: Takes over a laughing stock of a program coming off of a 1-11 season. slowly makes them respectable, but it takes a couple of years. 4-8 his first year, 5-7 his second before getting to 8-5 and 12-1 in his 3rd and 4th season. He then left. As most know, you don't typically get a jump in recruiting until the year AFTER a great season (if any jump in recruiting the year of the great season, typically marginal).

HC #2: Took over after a [Mark May]ty program became relevant and came off of the 12-1 season. That's really it I guess.
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This whole discussion started with whether or not Harbaugh is such a great recruiter and that someone here guaranteed he'll have a top-10 recruiting for 2016. As shown, his recruiting wasn't all that and the only real reason he ever got that 12-1 record was because Andrew Luck fell in his lap. I think Harbaugh will indeed do well recruiting at Michigan, but I doubt he'll be pulling in top-10 classes year after year...
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
This whole discussion started with whether or not Harbaugh is such a great recruiter and that someone here guaranteed he'll have a top-10 recruiting for 2016. As shown, his recruiting wasn't all that and the only real reason he ever got that 12-1 record was because Andrew Luck fell in his lap. I think Harbaugh will indeed do well recruiting at Michigan, but I doubt he'll be pulling in top-10 classes year after year...
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Just one guys opinion but if you asked me on the day he was hired, "will they start cranking out top 10 recruiting classes?" I would have said yes.

From what we saw during the time he had to work on the '15 class I am no longer that sure.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Just one guys opinion but if you asked me on the day he was hired, "will they start cranking out top 10 recruiting classes?" I would have said yes.

From what we saw during the time he had to work on the '15 class I am no longer that sure.
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Pretty my thoughts exactly. A few years ago the last guy on Earth I wanted to see scUM hire was Harbaugh, but after seeing how the 49ers have gone south and his epic recruiting fail in his first 5-6 weeks on the job, I'm almost glad they hired him...
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
This whole discussion started with whether or not Harbaugh is such a great recruiter and that someone here guaranteed he'll have a top-10 recruiting for 2016. As shown, his recruiting wasn't all that and the only real reason he ever got that 12-1 record was because Andrew Luck fell in his lap. I think Harbaugh will indeed do well recruiting at Michigan, but I doubt he'll be pulling in top-10 classes year after year...
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I guess we should just agree to disagree. Unless someone can pull up Urban's recruiting classes at Utah and prove me wrong, I'm going to guess he didn't pull in top recruiting classes while there. Stanford, particularly when Jim got started there, is in the same boat. It wasn't until Urban got to Florida that he pulled in top 10 classes every year. This will be Harbaugh's first time at a major program.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
I guess we should just agree to disagree. Unless someone can pull up Urban's recruiting classes at Utah and prove me wrong, I'm going to guess he didn't pull in top recruiting classes while there. Stanford, particularly when Jim got started there, is in the same boat. It wasn't until Urban got to Florida that he pulled in top 10 classes every year. This will be Harbaugh's first time at a major program.
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:lol: @ comparing Utah and Stanford
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Curmudgeon.png
@ comparing Utah and Stanford
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FIFY to paint a more accurate picture of you laughing, at least I assume.
 
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