Game Thread Game Two: Texas 25, Ohio State 22 (final)

[High Lonesome]

I don't have a tape to re-watch the Rose Bowl, but here's what sticks in my mind:

1) It was a very even contest.
2) Michigan got to Young, but they didn't tackle him.
3) When push came to shove Young played like the potential All American he was touted to be, Shazor, Braylon Edwards, and their linebackers did not.

Braylon played amazing, as did steve breston, shazor umm not so much. i dont think that the game would have been quite as close if UT could have managed to cover a kick....which brings me to this....if we dont kick away from ginn we are in trouble

 

[rocketman]

Wasn't Braylon singlehandedly responsible for 3 or 4 TD's? I'd say he had pretty darn good game.

Michigan's linebackers looked like they were stuck in a river of peanut butter when trying to stop VY. The one thing that stuck in my mind was when Young jumped into a pile of LB's, found a hole the size of a golf ball, and managed to take it 30 yards and put up 6 points.

 

[Chalumpa]

I've read the first 4 pages of this thread and then skipped to the end. First off, I'm a Texas fan. Second off, without sounding arrogant, Vince Young is the best athlete you've played in a while. I will admit I'm scared of what Ted Ginn can do but it doesn't seem that the average Buckeye fan appreciates what VY can do. Y'all have a great defense but it's not as easy as just saying "Ok, who wants to spy Vince Young? All right, let's check that off the list. Thank god." You have speed Michigan did not, but so does OU and Vince has ripped off some ridiculous runs against OU. I will admit I don't know how scarey Ted Ginn is until I watch him next September but I'll tell you right now that of the UT players I've seen in person in my life, the order of sheer awe they inspire goes #1. Ricky Williams. a close #2 Vince Young. and a little way below them is #3 Roy Williams.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I've read the first 4 pages of this thread and then skipped to the end. First off, I'm a Texas fan. Second off, without sounding arrogant, Vince Young is the best athlete you've played in a while. I will admit I'm scared of what Ted Ginn can do but it doesn't seem that the average Buckeye fan appreciates what VY can do. Y'all have a great defense but it's not as easy as just saying "Ok, who wants to spy Vince Young? All right, let's check that off the list. Thank god." You have speed Michigan did not, but so does OU and Vince has ripped off some ridiculous runs against OU. I will admit I don't know how scarey Ted Ginn is until I watch him next September but I'll tell you right now that of the UT players I've seen in person in my life, the order of sheer awe they inspire goes #1. Ricky Williams. a close #2 Vince Young. and a little way below them is #3 Roy Williams.

Good synopsis, but VY may be fast, but our D may be one of the fastest in the country if not the fastest. Also we know how to tackle.

Also OU didnt seem to be able to stop a good offense as seen in the Sugar Bowl.

For my list of players I have ever seen play that make my jaw drop I think Ted Ginn would be in my top 5.

I don't know who would be up there besides Barry Sanders.

Ted Ginn is a once in a lifetime talent, just like VY, but VY also has to play QB and has to be able to throw consistently and we will see if he can do that.

 

[HabaneroBuck]

Second off, without sounding arrogant, Vince Young is the best athlete you've played in a while.

That's cool. No one here is disrespecting Vince. The only problem is that many of us are less than intimidated by what he does in the pocket. It's obvious that he can create once he leaves. We all know that. When he actually throws the ball, however, he gives evidence of being a mediocre quarterback. That's no dig, guy, it's just observation. He floats some. He underthrows others. He had a 12/11 TD-to-Int. ratio. You are more than welcome to make a similar observation like, "Ohio State's offense was abysmal when I saw them play N.C. State."

 

[Chalumpa]

The flip side of your point about VY playing quarterback and having to throw consistently is that he has the ball in his hand EVERY play and has many, many more chances to break a game open than Ted Ginn. One of the good offensive changes we have made in the past couple of years is changing to an offensive set that allows Vince to decide play to play whether or not to keep it himself, pass, or hand off. With all this said, I would also say y'all will be amazed by Ramonce Taylor who may or may not be our starting tailback but will definitely see some serious action. He's a Reggie Bush type player and is maybe the fastest longhorn I've ever seen. Besides Ginn who would y'all say are your #2 or #3 playmakers on offense?

He had a 12/11 TD-to-Int. ratio.

This is what I believe is Vince's biggest problem as a passing QB. He plays a little bit like Major Applewhite in that he tries to create some passes to fit the play and they vary from floaters, flicks, and total sidearms. The problem is that he's not Major and can't always make them work. Sometimes they work and they're TD's (see Arkansas last year) and sometimes they're just INT's. If this was a 12-3 ratio I would be extremely happy because he doesn't have to account for a bunch of passing TD's. Although, his passing is actually pretty good, exception being interceptions. He throws a beautiful long ball (second only to Simms that I've seen at UT) and watch out for his utilization of our TE's, especially a very talented David Thomas. I'm really looking forward to how our offense matches up against your defense because I know y'all are stingy. I think this game comes down to our O-line versus your D-line because if we can establish the line and get 4-5 yards a play consistently we can really wear a team down, but if y'all collapse our line and we have a hard time establishing the run who knows where Greg Davis will turn. And when Greg Davis starts scrambling for outlets we're usually in big trouble.

 

[jwinslow]

Besides Ginn who would y'all say are your #2 or #3 playmakers on offense?

Smith and Holmes. Smith is a step slower than VY but is built like a rock (see pic), and regularly runs over DBs and LBs. He has a lot of athletic ability, but the difference in our game against UM is that he bought a lot of time in the pocket and made fantastic throws (the 80 yd strike to Gonzalez, the pump fake slant to Holmes, the go route to Holmes, a number of scramble and find Ginn open plays) all game. The other guy would be Santonio... Holmes is obviously a speedster, but the guy runs professional routes and has amazing hands. Pittman showed a lot of flash gaining 5 ypc with an atrocious OL (he really didn't play much at the end as he got in JT's doghouse for team violations)... all three of our RBs (Pittman, Haw, Maurice Wells?) are speedbacks with haw being kind of inbetween.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Chalumpa
Second off, without sounding arrogant, Vince Young is the best athlete you've played in a while.

There is no doubt VY is a great player, but try and keep what he did vs scUM in the Rose Bowl in perspective. He had 372 yds of total offense, Troy Smith had 386 vs that same sorry ass defense and Stanton from MSU went over 500 on them IIRC.

I think the point all Buckeye fans will make is the difference between our D and some others you have seen. Ours is big, fast, tackels well and they can all play well in space. VY will have beat us throwing and that just doesn't appear to be his strong suit.

We also heard quite a bit of this from the KSU faithful regarding Elle Roberson before the 2nd Fiesta Bowl. Go watch a replay of that and you'll see how shell shocked KSU's offense was untill that game was well out of hand.

 

[texhornfan]

Um"s defensive plan

UM's problem was building their defence around stopping benson, which they did.

 

[Chalumpa]

There is no doubt VY is a great player, but try and keep what he did vs scUM in the Rose Bowl in perspective.

I'm not just talking about what Vince did in the Rose Bowl. I've seen every home game of his in person and have also been to many of his road games. I have seen him play much, much more than any Ohio State fan on this board and I'm just trying to let y'all know he's more impressive than you're giving him credit for. I am on the other side of that note in regards to Ted Ginn. I have seen some of his games and I was very impressed but I'm willing to bet I'll be that much more impressed by him after I see him in person in September. Every big game we have the opposing team's fans say they're just going to force Vince to pass to win. As you can tell from his record of 17-2, that doesn't work out most of the time. Also remember that he plays every day against a defense that is just as talented as yours (that being our defense).

 

[jwinslow]

We'll see on Sep10 whether your defense is as talented as ours. Rankings mean nothing, as seen in the rose bowl.

Many of us do not disrespect Young's ability to run. Yet I haven't heard many experts or texas fans talk about Young's ability to throw consistently. He may have the potential, but is there a game you can point to where he had a great day passing? (Unlike running the ball against UM as a QB which is like taking candy from a baby, throwing against them is very respectable, which Smith did... however why should VY throw when he can run for 8000 yards in the game? :))

Our defensive scheme is to take away the deep ball, and usually play a zone underneath. Our schemes mixup a lot tho, so you rarely have the same blitzers and guys dropping into coverage. Therefore he will need perfect passes or his balls will be intercepted.

Our LBs will be more athletic than any you've played all last year, and Carpenter/Hawk have the best hands I've seen in LBers (not sure about schlegel, he didn't have many thrown at him).

I realize your not basing Young's season solely on the Rose Bowl. However realize that UM's coaches are so dumb they have 270lb guys playing LB and they haven't been taught how to wrap up a tackle. I realize Young is a difficult person to tackle in the open field, but there is no excuse for all of those missed tackles in the backfield (do not expect most of those against us).

Looking back at the big games in your season, what happened against TAMU (honestly I'm asking). The OU game was a shutout (not encouraging) and wasn't the OkState game more of Benson than Young? I realize that he probably made big plays in both of those games, as he did in that last game of your season (kansas?). But Roberson, Woods, and MSU's backup were all good mobile QBs that did nothing against us. I realize VY is on a whole different level, but our defense should be better (especially cuz nearly that whole D is coming back) than the OU one you faced last year... as OU's D got torched by OkState and USC and looked shaky at other times.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Also remember that he plays every day against a defense that is just as talented as yours (that being our defense).

You mean the one that gave up 35 points and over 400 yds to Oklahoma State at home?

This is starting to sound more and more like a lot of the B12 stuff we have heard around here the past few years. No way we could stop an offense like TT, pick our poison between the unstoppable duo of Sproles and Roberson and then last year there was no way we could stop the awsome running attack of OkState.

Well so far the only thing that has been constant is that none of those teams were anywhere near as fast or physical as we were. Also, after watching yet another Bowl season of B12 teams looking less than dominant, count me skeptical untill I see one actually do something on the field.

 

[brutus2002]

I get flippin tired of hearing fans from other teams act like Ginn is our only weapon!!!!! Watch out for Tony Gonzales and Santonio Holms!!! We have more than 1 weapon on our team.

Facts

OSU has better Special teams by ALOT!!!!!!

OSU has a better defense than Texas by a considerable margin.

IMO Texas has a better offense but we will see how much better ours has gotten.

We are better than Texas by a considerable margin in 2 of the three phases. We will win on Special teams alone.

Comparing our weapons to theirs...I'll take Ginn, Gonzo, and Holms over VY.

 

[OSU5NC]

VY made the nice run on 4th and 19 (?) to save the KU game. He also made some big plays against OU, but when I have watched him he has had fumbling problems, like in the aTm game.

 

[slickman]

Coaching, Coaching and Coaching

Living in FLorida it is always refreshing to witness some lively debate about a football team that is not FSU, UF or Miami in no certain order as Florida football watchers are very arrogant and myopic regarding their Florida schools that have recently slipped into the relative orbit of "pretty damn good" rather than "great". I think everybody finally picked up on "fast" in the last 7 years or so as being a great equalizer.

It's nice to see Texas fans posting here as Texas is definitely right up there as a state where people know and love their football and I respect and admire that a great deal. I know that whenever I talk to somebody from Texas I'm probably going to bring up football and we're going to be fast-friends.

Last year, having the DirecTV package I studied Texas a little bit in passing all season long, knowing that 2005 was going to be the year of an awesome interconf showdown. I really pulled for Texas all year long as I watched so much that I became a smidge smitten with them. I yelled at Vince for not throwing accurately many times and loved the defense as these guys have as much potential as anybody and showed a lot of heart against Chokelahoma.

What we love talking about is the glitz and glamour positions of QB and WR and Ted Ginn and Vince Young and Santonio Holmes and the Linebackers Carpenter/Hawk et al., but it always always boils down to the frontlines and we Buckeyes suffered last year through the development of our d-line and more specifically of our o-line, and our inability of stopping the seem play against Wisconsin in our standard coverage. By the Michigan matchup The Ohio State lines had finally gotten the lightbulbs to go on above their heads (in unison and weren't the results impressive as we are all still patting ourselves on the back for suffering through NWestern, Iowa (puke, puke, puke) Wisconsin (refs, I hate you) and Purdue and not giving up on them (as if we really have a choice- what am I going to do love my Golden Flashes every enduring minute? forget about that.)). It looks like the Horn's frontlines are returning quite a few letterman up front as well.

Oh, and my point is, that the truth of the matter is that we need to focus our attention on the trenches rather than the glamour because if Vince is slipping by everybody through the cracks and crevices I bet Tressel has a plan C or D in place that involves putting somebody extremely fast in on Defense who likes to tackle and intercept the ball and could hawk VY in a heartbeat if need be (fortunately for folks like me, who love to throw the ball and score lots of TDs he has to play WR). We could refer to that player as our plan "D" equalizer as one of his teammates from his 4x100 National Champion Relay team will be joining the Bucks as a CB this year (just in case the speed conscious Florida Football fans are reading this... last year Glenville (Cleveland) High featured the nations number one and number two- yes nationally- 4 x 100 relay teams if I'm not entirely mistaken (what a pipeline)). Plan "D" is there just in case- but the lines will determine our fortunes.

We're looking good along the lines with some good dominating players returning. How good do Horns fans feel about their lines? If you are counting on some greenies to step up that early in the season then coaching is what is needed and that, from my loose observations, has not been the Horns' real strong suite. No matter how much we love our playmakers and ours and your'n are many, the game is duked out up front with the "BIG UGLIES". I'm confindent in our guys and I'm sufficiently confident that Jimmy T has sped up his learning curve cycle regarding calling plays to his teams strengths.

Night Game?

Columbus?

Loaded with experienced players?

National Audience?

It already feels like the College Super Bowl. I don't see anybody else on the Horns' schedule supplying any other sorts of major challenges. I definitely think this is the year Mack gets that monkeye from the Buckeye State, Bobby Stoops off his back (for this year at least).

I'll be rooting for the Horns all season long, save one weekend in September.

Good luck.