Game Thread Game Two: Texas 25, Ohio State 22 (final)

[Torch7]

Throw in the towel bucks. Texas is just too damn fast.. I mean for goodness sake look at the stats. Ginn, yep he is average speed whenn it comes to Texas players, why do we even have this discussion. I mean just like Cryami... we have no speed that can match theirs, but we did get lucky. I guess Oklahoma doesn't have Texas speed as well. Maybe, just maybe we can get lucky like we did against Miami and maybe we can get lucky like the lot slowe Oklahoma team as well..... After all the team with the fastest 40 times always win right....

Finally someone who gets it. :tongue2:

 

[xrayrandy]

"Ginn was the undisputed (at least as far as HS recruiting goes) CB in the nation coming out of high school. There wasn't any question there at all."

I am not disputing that Ginn was the most highly regarded DB/WR recruit that year. All I said was that Bobby Tatum outperformed him at one combine. Here is the link http://www.hs-allstars.com/Combine/2003_national_combine.htm My only intent was to point out that if Jack's nephew plays in this game, even though he has limited experience, he is not a stiff. And, overall we have the DBs to match up with your WRs.

I only quoted the 100 meter times because of all the speed crap from tOSU posters. I hate that stuff as it is mostly irrelevant. What matters is who has the most talented players and the best schemes to fit their talent. Texas should win on both counts.

 

[Pheasant]

I really hate responding to speed smack, but oh well.

You weren't responding to speed smack, you started the speed smack.

Huff is our lock down corner, but played safety versus Michigan and most other teams. In the 100 meters at least he is faster than anyone on your team. I hope he goes against Ginn as that would tell us how fast Ginn really is.

Huff ran a 10.46 FAT in highschool, and recently a 10.48 FAT at the Big 12 championships. The 10.3 time you quoted was hand time, so it equates to something in the mid 10.5s FAT. Ginn's best reported 100m time is 10.5 hand which equates to the mid 10.7s FAT. We have a bunch of guys that fast or faster; Huff, Quan, Palmer, Taylor, Mi Griffin, Charles, C Griffin, and Brown at least. Huff's 10.46 would be the high school record in Ohio or Michigan, so it is highly unlikely that players on yours or your opponents teams are that fast.

10.46 would break the OHSAA record by a whopping .02 seconds, and Teddy never ran the 100 in a big meet. Ted Ginn's 13.40 in the 110m hurdles would tie the Texas state record, so it's unlikely that players on your team are that fast.

I know that you are thinking that Ginn is faster over shorter distances, well then why were 6 players faster than him in the 10 meters at the Army combine? Frankly I'm not convinced he is that fast since he hasn't played against anyone fast enough to get a good measure of their relative speed. Everyone will have a better idea one way or the other when our game is done.

I know you're thinking about your precious video with the aforementioned DB. Well, I have watched that video and what I see is a DB facing up field when the catch is made who freezes momentatily rather than closing on Ginn. By the time he moves, Ginn has already pivoted and taken off, and is near full speed as the DB finally gets turned around. The DB takes a few quick strides to accelerate, realizes it is futlie and strides out. That video has nothing to do with speed, that DB lost any chance to catch Ginn because he hesitated and he never really tried.

In the 110 hurdles and the 400m at least Ted is faster than anyone on your team.

 

[craigblitz]

I am sorry for the sarcasm last night but this whole thread has just got silly. To think for 1 second that both Ohio State and Texas are not loaded and deep is stupid. Both teams will have speed, both teams will have size and it is going to be a great game!!! You know what, Tatum out performed Ginn at a Camp!!!! Hahah good job. I can think 50 players right off the top of my head who are great camp performers but suck nuts on the field!!!

I am of the opinion that anyone who thinks both teams are not extremley talented and this will be a great game has no idea what football is all about. As Texas fans nobody is expecting you to say I really think OSU is better. You had better think your team will win, that is why you are fans. Same for us. But to come on here and say Ginn is not fast etc etc is stupid. He is the most electryfing players in college football who has taken over games all by himself and you can throw that stat around all you want.

Also if you want to see a guy who has phenominal 10m speed wait till you Gonzo fire off the line. Only one who can keep up with Ginn because of his burst. Ginn does not have the best starting speed but when he gets in the open field it is over!! I am sure Texas has players like that as well!!

Go Bucks

 

[Buckin' A]

I am faster than any of you posers between the sheets....



Shit, wrong thread.

 

[xrayrandy]

"Ted Ginn's 13.40 in the 110m hurdles would tie the Texas state record"

No, Dennis Brantley 13.10.

Oh, and you should really read the thread before accusing me of starting the speed smack. There must be well over 100 mentions by tOSU posters about your players speed preceeding my post. I have also read that crap on numerous posts on Texas boards.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

xrayrandy: If you don't think Ohio State is as fast, if not faster, than any team in college football, in field football speed (bolded so your locked-in-the-laboratory mind can pick up on that), then just go ask players on the 2002 Miami Hurricanes team. By the way, we're even faster as a team now. So, you can take your controlled-conditions track times and shove them in your locker. No college team is faster in game speed. Not Miami. Not USC. Not Texas. No one.

 

[2002UNC]

Game Speed...thats all that matters. I ran the 100M ON THE AVERAGE FROM 10.9-11.3. I ran the 40 anywhere from 4.5-4.6 handtimed. When I played college football I was the 6th fastest guy on my team in the 40. When I played safety and flanker I was the quickest player on my team in football pads. Thats the point the Buckeye fans are trying to make. If we ran the 100M I might have been 6th or 7th on the team.

Ted Ginn is probably the 3rd or 4th fastest guy on the team in track speed. He ran the hurdles which requires agility and speed. Ginn is obviously the fastest player on our team in pads and in the open field. The kid is not a track athlete that plays football...hes a football player that runs track.

There are only two players in the country in the same Zip Code as Ginn. Hester and Bush are the only players that can even be argued as being as fast as Ginn on the football field. Ginns agility comes from his hurdling and it cannot be taugh...its natural.

 

[osugrad21]

Click on the third clip in this link

That is a 4.3 40 guy getting smoked by Teddy BigGame.

 

[gregorylee]

Not doggin ya Grad, but that clip has been given as evidence already and he is still arguing.

 

[Torch7]

Game Speed...thats all that matters....

Exactly.

SO if you all have game-speed on your side of the ball, so do we.

In game situations you only have to run a 1/2 a second faster than the guy closest too you. Forty times are not an indicator, but they do show potential game speed nothing more.

Checked out the links.... Nice runs, but forgive me if that doesn't prove your point. I've seen equally impressive plays on www.jcdenton.com (VInce Young, and Ramonce Taylor clips) making fast defensive players look like they were standing still.

 

[xrayrandy]

What's funny is I would never make the claim that Texas is the fastest team in college football as I have no way of knowing. Your confidence is incredible. But enough with that, how about some real football talk.

I see the key matchup between our offense and your defense to be our All-American OTs versus your so so DEs. One rating service I trust somewhat has your best DE Kudla rated as the #52 DE prospect among seniors, while our OTs are rated #1 in their respective classes. Even if those rankings are debatable to a degree, this is by far the biggest mismatch betweeen our O and your D.

Normally the DEs have containment responsibilities, but as been mentioned numerous times in this thread and others by tOSU posters, that responsibility will likely fall to your OLBs. This is quite an admission on your part given your general cockiness, but I happen to agree. Unfortunately for tOSU we will run 3 wides or two TEs much of the time so both OLBs will also have coverage responsibilities (and 9 man fronts are ill advised). If the OLB are left alone and have to cover a TE (or RB) and contain Vince Young (or the RB), that is a serious problem, as many of our opponents are aware.

Stepping back a minute, the DE is critical to how we play our bread and butter play the zone read. If the DE crashes down the line in backside pursuit of the RB then Vince keeps the ball and goes around end. If the DE stays with his blocker Vince makes the handoff and the RB as all day to follow blocks and pick his hole. Then if the other DE gets squashed and loses contain you have a situation with the OLB isolated in space against the running back going off tackle, assuming he isn't taken out by another blocker. This play will be even tougher to defend this year since we have speedier backs running it.

We also use this play to set up pass plays. In one of my favorites Vince sprints out instead of running off-tackle, and the far side TE runs a crossing route behind the OLB. At the same time the WR is up field taking the CB with him. Your OLB is then left in no mans land with the option of covering the TE or trying to tackle Vince leaving the TE wide open. There is a third receiver/TE in the pattern keeping the safety (or corner in zone coverage) on that side busy. If your DE pursued the RB at the beginning as you like to do, then he takes himself out of the play leaving the OT free to pick up the MLB or whoever else you might send toward the line. We have made big yardage on this play, and it is so much easier when the DEs are easily neutralized.

This DE-OT matchup is one of the big reasons I think we will gain over 200 rushing yards in this game. And, Vince should also have plenty of time to pass as well.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I see the key matchup between our offense and your defense to be our All-American OTs versus your so so DEs. One rating service I trust somewhat has your best DE Kudla rated as the #52 DE prospect among seniors, while our OTs are rated #1 in their respective classes. Even if those rankings are debatable to a degree, this is by far the biggest mismatch betweeen our O and your D.

Michigan had an offensive line which had one All-American and three all-conference linemen, and yet that didn't keep our "so-so" DE Kudla out of their backfield. If you had looked at the individual rankings of Michigan's OL against those of our DL prior to the game, you would've reached the same conclusion of it being a mismatch in Michigan's favor, and those who wacthed The Game saw how that turned out. Trust me when I say our DL will put pressure on Young, just like they did on Henne.

 

[lvbuckeye]

"Ginn was the undisputed (at least as far as HS recruiting goes) CB in the nation coming out of high school. There wasn't any question there at all."

I am not disputing that Ginn was the most highly regarded DB/WR recruit that year. All I said was that Bobby Tatum outperformed him at one combine. Here is the link http://www.hs-allstars.com/Combine/2003_national_combine.htm My only intent was to point out that if Jack's nephew plays in this game, even though he has limited experience, he is not a stiff. And, overall we have the DBs to match up with your WRs.

I only quoted the 100 meter times because of all the speed crap from tOSU posters. I hate that stuff as it is mostly irrelevant. What matters is who has the most talented players and the best schemes to fit their talent. Texas should win on both counts.

talent is a wash...
best scheme? you think that Mack will out-scheme Tressel???? you've got to be fucking Kidding, right? i think that the coach who has won FIVE National Championships in the last 14 seasons might have just a slight edge over a guy who has yet to win his own conference, even though he consistently wins the "recruiting national title"...

Tressel is a better coach than Mack. PERIOD.

 

[BB73]

Stepping back a minute, the DE is critical to how we play our bread and butter play the zone read. If the DE crashes down the line in backside pursuit of the RB then Vince keeps the ball and goes around end. If the DE stays with his blocker Vince makes the handoff and the RB as all day to follow blocks and pick his hole. Then if the other DE gets squashed and loses contain you have a situation with the OLB isolated in space against the running back going off tackle, assuming he isn't taken out by another blocker. This play will be even tougher to defend this year since we have speedier backs running it.

We also use this play to set up pass plays. In one of my favorites Vince sprints out instead of running off-tackle, and the far side TE runs a crossing route behind the OLB. At the same time the WR is up field taking the CB with him. Your OLB is then left in no mans land with the option of covering the TE or trying to tackle Vince leaving the TE wide open. There is a third receiver/TE in the pattern keeping the safety (or corner in zone coverage) on that side busy. If your DE pursued the RB at the beginning as you like to do, then he takes himself out of the play leaving the OT free to pick up the MLB or whoever else you might send toward the line. We have made big yardage on this play, and it is so much easier when the DEs are easily neutralized.

This DE-OT matchup is one of the big reasons I think we will gain over 200 rushing yards in this game. And, Vince should also have plenty of time to pass as well.

This switch back to football talk is definitely welcome after all the debate about speed. :)

I have read this entire thread, and I don't recall anybody mentioning the zone read play before. As I've said, I watched 5 Texas games last year, and Vince Young made huge chunks of yardage on this play. Often times it was amazing how much room there was on the outside after he faked the handoff to Benson. Or there was 1 guy trying to cover an area several yards wide, and VY would make 1 move and blow by him.

I'm sure tOSU's coaches have reviewed what Oklahoma did in shutting Texas out, and compared it to what didn't work for Kansas, Okie. St, Texas Tech and Meatchicken. It takes solid personnel all functioning in a proper scheme to limit VY's success. The Buckeyes obviously need to contain him and not let him get outside the pocket, or around the end on the zone read play. The DT's and the Mike will need to slow down the straight-ahead running game without much help from safeties and outside LB's. However, I also think we'll need to mix in some blitzes to make the Texas offense unsure of what's coming. But the blitzer can't try to take VY's head off, or he'll usually sidestep it.

Also, getting the lead will be very important in the game. Young has made mistakes in the past when in pressure situations, although he had some clutch comeback performances last year (Texas posters who think I'm not giving him enough credit, please read my post #1640 on page 110 of this thread before responding). He was only sacked 9 times last year, but there were 5 games where he threw 2 interceptions in each. We want him to throw the ball.

Only 7 more weeks before this great matchup finally hits the field!