Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[lvbuckeye]

Now that doesn't excuse the lack of running plays (in my uneducated opinion), but I feel a little better about the passing game and Colt's ability to read a defense from saturday. A better performance from our TE's (or David Thomas) sure would have helped though in the <10 yard range.

if there was a lack of running plays, it wasn't because of Greg Davis... it was because of Ohio State and the clock... i posted this a page or two ago:

first quarter rushing looked like this: 11, 3, 12, 13, 9, -1, 12, 30, 4... 9 carries for 93 yards, and a whopping 10.3 average.

second quarter rushes looked like this: 5, -4, 4, 2, 3, 3, -1, 0, 4, 2... 10 carries for 18 yards and a 1.8 yard average. if that doesn't jump out at you, i don't know what will. the Horns didn't abandon the run. the Silver Bullets shut it down.

third quarter rushing looked like this: 4, 7, 17, -1, 6, 5... 6 carries for 48 yards, and an 8 yard average... however, they were down ten at this point, so there was a little more urgency, but i don't think you could consider the run to have been abandoned. obviously they had one good run, but for the most part, the Silver Bullets simply were making tackles, and waiting for the other team to make a mistake... take away the 17 yarder, and the YPC average for the 3rd quarter was 5 carries for 21 yards, and 4.2 YPC... not exactly 'gashed.' and the Horns only called one more pass play than run... Horns only ran 13 plays in the 3rd. (not counting punts)

fourth quarter rushing looked like this: 9, 2, 3, 12... now no one will even attempt to state that the Horns should have still been running, especially after the Buckeyes took 6:30 off the clock and opened up a 17 point lead...

in the final three quarters, except for the 17 yard run and the 12 yard scramble in the final minute, UT rushed 19 times for 48 yards... that's 2.5 yards per carry...

UT didn't abandon the run. Ohio State stopped it, then the clock eliminated it...

frankly, i still am having trouble believing how fast Ohio State's young defense grew up Saturday night... there were major questions about the rush D on the edge going in. the Horns gashed them for nearly 100 yards in the first quarter, and then, for whatever reason, the Horns were stoned in the whole second quarter... the UT run game quite honestly became a non factor... like i said, i was shocked how fast they grew up...

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I trust the numbers your posting LV, and I have to agree with what your saying, seeing the stats and all.. still, to watch it, it seemed the run was working well longer than that.

Glad you dug up the stats.

 

[rocketman]

Got back from Austin this evening so I haven't sifted through the hundreds of new threads from the past few days. I figured people have dissected the game play-by-play already, so I won't go into too much detail as too what I saw.

Some of my experiences from Austin:

1) My seats were a few sections removed from the OSU section, so I was sitting with my dad in the middle of a sea of burnt orange. However, I quickly realized, as had been my experience in the couple days spent in Austin before the game, that Texas fans are classy and hospitible. Yeah, we took a little pre-game ribbing and there was a lot of chest thumping before the game, but who doesn't do that? I had great conversations with the Texas fans sitting around me and when victory was in sight, my dad and I got a lot of handshakes and pats on the back. One gentlemen even offered and took a picture of me and my dad in front of the scoreboard. Also, I don't know if this was mentioned, but when the band started playing Carmen Ohio, there was some rather loud program being played on their ginormous scoreboard, but it was quickly turned off mid-way through. Really classy for Texas to let us sing our alma mater.

2) The Pre-game pep rally at the Frank Erwin Center was amazing. I never felt so good about being a Buckeye. They sectioned off half of the arena and it was packed with fans - very cool. The fan turnout as a whole was just plain awe inspiring. Everywhere I went in the city - from Cesar Chavez to the Highland Mall area, from Red River all the way out to Lake Austin - I saw Buckeye fans. Not just one or two, but in groups. I said in my last post that on 6th and Brazos there was a banner strung up on the balcony of an apartment reading "GO BUCKS!" Also, very cool. The crowd at Stubb's for the OSU pre-game party was awesome, there must of been atleast 400-500 fans at any given time. They have a pretty big backyard amphitheater area for live music and the entire area was packed with scarlet and gray. Also the beef brisket was very tasty.

3) I am on the verge of throwing my DVR out the window. It failed to record yet another OSU game in its entirety. Miami-FSU? No problem! ND-GT? Got every minute. But when it comes to OSU games...won't even budge. Must be controled by ESPN or something...

4) While neat at first, the Texas Fight chant and hook 'em horns signs got annoying after a while. Of course, I'm sure to any other fan, our OH-IO chants must get really annoying after a while, too. So I can't hold that against them.


5) Some funny quotes heard around me:

On Ted Ginn before the game: "Teddy ain't shit! We'll put him on a stretcher!"
After he caught a pass for a huge gain in the first quarter: "Wow. Ted Ginn is fast."
After he scored the TD late in the first half: "Ted Ginn is the real deal man...the real deal."
On a dropped pass by Selvin Young: "Hey Colt! Maybe if you threw it at his BUTT he might catch it!"



Thats all for now. If you haven't already guessed, I had a great time in Austin and its an experience I won't soon forget. The win was pretty sweet too.

 

[lvbuckeye]

after checking out the replay on that website, it appears that at the beginning, they were running it down our throats from the shotgun 3 WR sets, but struggled in traditional I and multiple TE sets... which is weird... NIU was gashing us on the edge in power sets, but Texas couldn't... maybe Mack outcoached himself...? it was the same in the second half: the Horns ran well from the shotgun 3 WR sets, but we did a much better job against traditional formations...

maybe they should have done what they did against North Texas, and just run every snap from the shotgun, 1 TE, 3 WR set... that would have kept us in the nickel all game... which is most likely a large contributing factor to their ability to run... we only had 6 in the box a lot of the time...

maybe i should change my assessment. UT didn't abandon the run as much as they abandoned the formation that was allowing them to run... then again, field position dictates that just a little bit... when you're in the red zone, everyone on D gets a little closer to the LOS, so it makes sense to have more blockers...

i don't know...

i'm stumped...

 

[ScriptOhio]

I almost wish we could play Texas on a more frequent basis. This rivalry is great for college football.

I agree. The games were great for both schools too.

 

[txbuckeye1983]

I lived in Austin a couple summers ago, and there was always an Ohio State flag on 6th and Brazos. Good to know that guy doesn't have to listen to shit from Texas fans anymore.

 

[BrutusBobcat]

Here's the post game breakdown of the OSU-UT game. I haven't had time to read/watch it yet but thought you guys would appreciate it too.

http://www.rpongett.phpwebhosting.com/ut-ohst.html

That's really phenomenal work. Does he do that for all of your games? If so, you're very fortunate. Thanks for the link.

 

[lvbuckeye]

after checking out the replay on that website, it appears that at the beginning, they were running it down our throats from the shotgun 3 WR sets, but struggled in traditional I and multiple TE sets... which is weird... NIU was gashing us on the edge in power sets, but Texas couldn't... maybe Mack outcoached himself...? it was the same in the second half: the Horns ran well from the shotgun 3 WR sets, but we did a much better job against traditional formations...

maybe they should have done what they did against North Texas, and just run every snap from the shotgun, 1 TE, 3 WR set... that would have kept us in the nickel all game... which is most likely a large contributing factor to their ability to run... we only had 6 in the box a lot of the time...

maybe i should change my assessment. UT didn't abandon the run as much as they abandoned the formation that was allowing them to run... then again, field position dictates that just a little bit... when you're in the red zone, everyone on D gets a little closer to the LOS, so it makes sense to have more blockers...

i don't know...

i'm stumped...

okay, watched it again.

in the first quarter, Texas was exclusively in the shotgun ace three wide... the Buckeyes were exclusively in the nickel.

in the second quarter, Texas was predominantly in an ace twins set; sometimes from the gun, sometimes under center. two tight ends allowed the Silver Bullets to get into a 4-3. interestingly enough, although the Buckeyes ultimately had the most success defending the run from this formation, Texas' longest rush from scrimmage was from this set. the Horns also went into a jumbo I set one time on a third and short, and easily picked up the first.

nearly all of Texas' 10-15 yard rushes were from the zone read look. i'm not sure if they were designed counters, but on a bunch of them the RB started right, then ran back left as Colt stuck the ball in his belly...

in the third quarter, Texas was back in the shotgun ace three wide, but they mixed in a bit of the ace twins look as well... they went empty one time (motioned the RB out wide), and completed a nice long pass to Sweed... the 17 yard run was again from shotgun ace 3 wide, and again, the RB started right, then cut back left as soon as he got the ball...

the fourth was also almost exclusively in shotgun ace three wide... the option, which had worked twice for 10 plus yards in the first half, was snuffed out twice...

i think my original assessment was partly correct, as was my theory that Texas' success was largely due to formation. when the Silver Bullets were in the Nickel, especially early on, the Horns ran easily; though the Buckeyes did a better job of slowing it down in the second half. in the first quarter alone, Texas had 5 rushes for 10+ yards. they only had 3 such rushes during the rest of the game... when the Buckeyes were in the 4-3, they did a much better job of defending the run...

aside: Curtis Terry, IMHO played a heck of a game when he was in there. he lays the lumber, and seems to shed blockers better than anyone else...

 

[EngineerHorn]

lv, you did a nice job of breaking that down. kudos.


And that was definitely a counter from the 3-wide look. Towards the end of the year last year, we were running that just as much as the zone read, and that was with Vince.


I posted something pertaining to this a hundred pages ago, but I'm really not a fan of the two TE gun formation. The only game that formation really worked last year was against Baylor. Everything worked against Baylor.


I don't know a tenth as much about football as Greg Davis does, so any critique I give is unqualified at best. But I thought we should have stayed with what was working, and it looks like you came to the same conclusion in your last post. What did Davis see to warrant making the change? Why did he take out a proven playmaker in Quan Cosby and insert an unproven redshirt freshman tight end? There was obviously some reasoning behind that decision, but I'm thinking what you said about Mack outcoaching himself has some merit.


But it's all pretty worthless speculation anyway. Even if we'd had more success on offense, Troy Smith would've continued to tear our secondary a new asshole. So best case scenario we'd still lose, but by a smaller margin.

 

[lvbuckeye]

lv, you did a nice job of breaking that down. kudos.


And that was definitely a counter from the 3-wide look. Towards the end of the year last year, we were running that just as much as the zone read, and that was with Vince.


I posted something pertaining to this a hundred pages ago, but I'm really not a fan of the two TE gun formation. The only game that formation really worked last year was against Baylor. Everything worked against Baylor.


I don't know a tenth as much about football as Greg Davis does, so any critique I give is unqualified at best. But I thought we should have stayed with what was working, and it looks like you came to the same conclusion in your last post. What did Davis see to warrant making the change? Why did he take out a proven playmaker in Quan Cosby and insert an unproven redshirt freshman tight end? There was obviously some reasoning behind that decision, but I'm thinking what you said about Mack outcoaching himself has some merit.


But it's all pretty worthless speculation anyway. Even if we'd had more success on offense, Troy Smith would've continued to tear our secondary a new asshole. So best case scenario we'd still lose, but by a smaller margin.

thanks.

i think he started running the ace twins sets because Ohio State started bringing extra guys and blitzing, and he needed extra blockers to pick them up... it wasn't like Davis just switched for no reason. Ohio State adjusted to slow down what was working for the Horns, and Texas had to adjust the formation in order to maintain protection...

i must say, if nothing else, McCoy has a heck of a chin. that kid took some BIG shots, and bounced back up every time... he's got my respect.

oh yeah, forgot to mention. late in the 3rd, Texas tried to pull a guard and a tackle a la NIU, and the Buckeyes pretty much blew it up...

And that was definitely a counter from the 3-wide look. Towards the end of the year last year, we were running that just as much as the zone read, and that was with Vince.

it's a hell of a play... gave us fits...

 

[osugrad21]

Link

Hold Horns high, Brown says after loss to OSU

By CEDRIC GOLDEN
Cox News Service
Monday, September 11, 2006 AUSTIN, Texas ? As a giddy 20,000 Ohio State fans left Austin on Sunday morning, the home folks are left to deal with the remnants of a devastating early season loss.
One question that will soon be answered is: Was the 24-7 humbling a single bump in this 12-game chase of a title, or was it the start of a tailspin?
"I told them to walk out of here with their heads up,'' Texas head coach Mack Brown said. "It's early in the season, and we have to start over."
The Longhorns (1-1) dropped six spots to No. 8 in both the Associated Press Top 25 poll and the USA Today coaches poll, released Sunday. The Buckeyes received 59 first-place votes in the coaches poll, and Southern Cal moved up to second. Notre Dame was third, followed by Auburn, West Virginia, Florida and Louisiana State.
Notre Dame, Auburn, USC, West Virginia, LSU and Florida are ranked behind the Buckeyes in the AP poll.
The goal for Texas is to re-establish the confidence that was surely shaken Saturday, given the way the Bucks handled Texas on the road. And that can come only by putting together another winning streak.
It was Texas' earliest regular-season loss since the Arkansas Razorbacks handed the Horns a 38-28 home loss in 2003. Texas finished that season 10-3 and lost 28-20 to Washington State in the Holiday Bowl.
For now, the Longhorns have little time to lament what went wrong against Ohio State.
"A lot of our guys are keeping our heads up,'' senior running back Selvin Young said. "Ohio State had a great team and a great defense. We'll have to correct our mistakes and get back to work."
The next three games (against Rice in Houston on Saturday, followed by home games against Iowa State on Sept. 23 and Sam Houston State on Sept. 30) will be valuable in the continued development of redshirt freshman quarterback Colt McCoy and/or backup Jevan Snead.
It will also serve as the preparation point for the Oct. 7 Red River showdown against Oklahoma.
Brown believes that McCoy will be fine despite any criticism that might result from his 19-of-32 performance that produced 154 yards, a touchdown and an interception.
"He's been a quarterback in this state for a long time,'' Brown said. "He watched Chris, he watched Major, he watched Vince, and he watched Chance. He knows there will be people out there coaching him."
Brown must also deal with the fallout from the Sept. 4 arrests of starting cornerback Tarell Brown and reserve Tyrell Gatewood, who were detained along with former Longhorn Aaron Harris on drug and weapons charges.
Now that the drug charges have been dropped against the current players, Mack Brown must decide on when or if to reinstate. Tarell Brown is still facing the weapons charge.
Players' attorney Jamie Balagia said he expects the weapons charge to be dropped, since the 9 mm handgun in Brown's possession was registered to Gatewood.
Mack said Tarell's suspension was not the reason his team lost the game.
"You lose a good player, and you have to adjust,'' he said. "The focus was there."

 

[osugrad21]

CPD

[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif]Texas fans take lickin' in stride [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif]Tuesday, September 12, 2006[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif]Bill Livingston[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif]Plain Dealer Columnist [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Texans often wear 10-gallon hats because they get the big head so easily. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Like Ohio State, the University of Texas, with its vast horde of alumni, can produce a fan or two who might lean to the overbearing and obnoxious side. And isolated incidents of churlishness might have occurred Saturday night after Ohio State beat Texas, 24-7. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] But the dominant impression among Buckeyes fans I talked to was not what many visitors would have expected. Texas fans, who think they should win it all every year and who actually did last year, knew how to lose. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Most of the record crowd of 89,422 stayed to the end of OSU's 24-7 victory Saturday night. That way, the home fans could applaud, not what the team had done for them lately, but what it had done formerly, in winning 21 straight games. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] OSU received so few tickets that its clumps of fans looked like scarlet scars on the vast rust bowl of Royal-Memorial Stadium. (OK, rust horseshoe). The burnt-orange-clad fans stood and clapped at game's end. Later, Ohio State's players sang the alma mater in front of the OSU band without harassment. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Granted, Texas lost decisively. It was not that way last year in Columbus. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Ohio State lost in the last 2? minutes to the Longhorns in 2005. Texas newspapers received complaints from visitors to Columbus about angry, drunken OSU "fans," many of whom had not been in the stadium at the game, cursing, fighting and behaving like louts after it was over. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Again, the dynamic of defeat was different. It is much harder to be ambushed by it when victory seems assured than when you have a full quarter to prepare, as did Texas fans. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Significantly, Texas coach Mack Brown has nothing but praise for how Jim Tressel and his players conducted themselves last year. So it's not as though the leaders have not tried to lead. Big Ten messages encouraging good sportsmanship are always played during home games. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] It was 85 degrees at kickoff Saturday at 7:15 p.m. in Austin, which is not a pleasant evening. Cardboard fans were available at the gates. Each read: "Texas fans - Make us proud. Respectful, friendly, passionate." The whole stadium seemed to be aflutter with hands in the heat of the early going. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] It looked like a complicated card trick that had not come off. But Texas had pulled off a much harder trick. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Brown cited a 1998 game at Nebraska as a goal for fans anywhere. Texas' Ricky Williams had run over and through the Cornhuskers. As he left the field, the Nebraska fans chanted the name of the award he was soon to win: "Heis-man! Heis-man!" No program dominated like Nebraska did in the 1990s, either. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Many Nebraska fans come from small towns, where people are expected to be good neighbors. But the usual impression of visiting teams in Lincoln is of being treated as respected opponents, not hated enemies. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] People who call themselves fans often deride sportsmanship as a childish ideal or, worse, as proof of a fatal lack of passion. Instead, it is a measure of personal growth, as surely as a ring on a tree. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif] Oklahoma once had a president who vowed to build a university the football team could be proud of. It would be enough these days for many big-time schools to develop fans the football team looked at that way. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial,sans-serif][FONT=arial,sans-serif]To reach Bill Livingston: [/FONT][/FONT]

 

[osugrad21]

Link

No defense for being incorrect
By JASON LLOYD, Morning Journal Columnist
09/12/2006


http://www.zwire.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=1699&dept_id=46370&newsid=17182539

THAT'S what you get for listening to a sports writer.


Pick Texas?

Idiot.

Ohio State's defense showed me something Saturday night I didn't think it possessed. I knew they could miss tackles and give up big running plays -- which they did again. What had been missing was someone who could change the game, who with one play could reach out a hand and immediately kill an opposing team's momentum.

That's what good defenses do.

Ohio State defenses have been filled with players like this in the recent past -- A.J. Hawk, Chris Gamble, Donte Whitner, Will Smith, Mike Doss ... Maybe it was a big sack on third-and-4, maybe it was an interception returned for a touchdown.

Whatever was needed, those guys did it.

No one on this defense really looked like that player. That is, until James Laurinaitis punched the ball right out of Billy Pittman's hand on the goal line Saturday night.

He called it a lucky hit. Maybe it was. But great players seem to get ''lucky'' more than the rest.

It could also be called luck that Laurinaitis just happened to drop to the exact spot Texas quarterback Colt McCoy delivered a pass on the first drive of the third quarter.

Laurinaitis wasn't trying to hide. He just dropped back into pass coverage, and the way McCoy threw the ball, Laurinaitis looked like the intended receiver.

Two huge turnovers, both created by Laurinaitis.

Now it's confession time: I never thought much of him before Saturday. To me, he looked like Jason Ott at middle linebacker. You remember him, right?

Didn't think so.

Ott was Ohio State's middle linebacker for a short stretch in 1999. The running joke in the media was that Ott stood for Omit The Tackle, because, well, Ott wasn't very good at tackling. And linebackers who aren't very good at tackling aren't very good linebackers.

Ohio State's defense wasn't very good at it against Northern Illinois. And truthfully, it wasn't all that swell against Texas. The Longhorns' two tailbacks, Selvin Young and Jamaal Charles, combined to run for 172 yards. That's two opponents, two teams to run for over 170 yards.

But Laurinaitis overshadowed it with his 13 tackles and two huge turnovers.

Look at it this way: Laurinaitis' strip at the goal line prevented a sure touchdown by Texas and created one five plays later for Ohio State. That's a 14-point swing.

His interception of McCoy in the third quarter led to a field goal. That's 17 points.

And by how much did Ohio State beat Texas Saturday?

Seventeen points.

This isn't to declare Laurinaitis as the next Hawk or Carpenter or Matt Wilhelm or Andy Katzenmoyer -- or even the next Cie Grant or Robert Reynolds.

He's only a sophomore, with plenty of games left to prove greatness. But for one night, with the entire country watching, he made the biggest impact on a 1 vs. 2 game so rare, one hadn't occurred in 10 years.

I'm still not a full-blown believer in Ohio State's defense. They're young, they're still missing entirely too many tackles and the secondary hasn't really been tested by a veteran quarterback yet.

To pin national title hopes on a defense so young is like expecting to win in baseball with a rookie pitcher. They look good for awhile, but sooner or later they blow up.

Ask the Detroit Tigers.

It happened to Ohio State's defense in 2004, when A.J. Hawk and Bobby Carpenter went to Iowa and lost, 33-6. Young players eventually get exposed for being young.

If and when that day comes this year, the offense better be ready with five touchdowns. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

But after Saturday, this looks like a team more equipped to make a deep run through November.

Even an idiot can see that.

 

[osugrad21]

Link

Texas defense was ordinary in loss
By Jim Vertuno / Associated Press

AUSTIN -- Gene Chizik looked and sounded like he hadn't slept in two days. It's understandable if he hadn't.Texas' defensive co-coordinator hadn't lost a game since he was an assistant at Auburn in 2003 until Saturday night's 24-7 loss to No. 1 Ohio State.
Against the Buckeyes, the Longhorns (1-1) gave up big plays through the air in the first half, looked confused in pass coverage all night and couldn't come up with a defensive stand when the sputtering offense needed it the most.
Chizik's message to the media on Monday: Blame him.
"We didn't get the job done on defense," Chizik said, "and that starts with me."
Head coach Mack Brown wasn't quite so direct, but despite an offense that managed just one touchdown, he delivered most of his postgame lumps to his defense.
"We needed to step up," Brown said, "but we didn't."
Brown ripped through several defensive lapses:

No turnovers. Texas didn't force a fumble or have an interception.
Receivers wide open in the secondary. Concentrating on stopping Buckeyes receiver Ted Ginn Jr., Texas gave up huge yards and a touchdown to Anthony Gonzalez, who had a career night in the first half."Too many people open too many times," Brown said.

Key drives for touchdowns. The Buckeyes converted Texas turnovers in the first and third quarters into points with a touchdown and a field goal.Nothing bothered him more than the Buckeyes' final drive of the first half.
Texas had just tied the game 7-7 when the Buckeyes answered with a quick drive for a score that seem to suck the life right out of the Royal-Memorial Stadium crowd of 89,422. Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith delivered the dagger with a perfect 29-yard TD pass to Ginn with 16 seconds left.
"That just took all the momentum away," Brown said.

 

[osugrad21]

Always good to honor a man of his word...

link

What happens when you lose a bet

I wish to publicly acknowledge my error in failing to recognize that the football team of Ohio State is clearly superior this year to my alma mater, The University of Texas. I am humbled by the power and majesty of the mighty Buckeyes and now realize that Bob Schultz was correct about the superiority of Ohio State University. Despite this failure, I remain a loyal and faithful Texas Ex.

Bob Daniel
Snowmass