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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

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xrayrandy said:
According to the NCAA there were 34 punt returners better than Ginn last year. Ross was only one of them.


Rank Player Pos Cl Gm Puntret Yds TDs Ydsret Retpgm
1 Maurice Drew, UCLA RB JR 12 15 427 3 28.47 1.25
.
.
.
35 Ted Ginn Jr., Ohio St. WR SO 12 25 250 1 10.00 2.08
Click to expand...

And guess who was the #1 punt returner in 2004? Ginn had a sophomore slump last year, yet still return both a punt and a kickoff for TDs and had a TD in each called back due to bullshit penalties (and IIRC, he had a TD return called back in 2004). Ginn also had punters kicking short to force him to fair catch, and that was when they weren't punting it totally away from him.
 
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campies said:
Sorry, didn't finish my post, just got it deleted after I realized I didn't want to do a full breakdown when I dont really have the depth chart of tOSU handy. however, nonetheless, I think we can just go unit by unit regardless, maybe highlighting a couple of studs at those spots. Numerical ratings for the units will assist in the comparison.

Both Teams
1) QBs
Texas - Rs FRColt McCoy (6'3 195), Fr Jevan Snead (6'3 215) -(6.5-7) - Initially, may improve significantly as season goes
Ohio St- Sr Troy Smith (6'1 215), Sr Justin Zwick (6'4 225) -(9-9.5)

Advantage- Ohio St - BIG

2) O-Line
Texas- Sr RT Justin Blalock (6'4 330), Sr RG Kasey Studdard (6'4 305), Sr C Lyle Sendlein (6'5 305), Jr LT Tony Hills (6'6 295), RS So Cedric Dockery (6'4 315)/RS Fr Charlie Tanner (6'4 285) - (10.0)
Ohio State- Not really sure but believe majority of starters return - (9.0)

Advantage- Texas

3) Runningbacks
Texas- So Jamaal Charles (6'1 195), Sr Selvin Young (6'0 210), So Henry Melton (6'3 265), Jr Ramonce Taylor (6'0 195) - (9-9.5)
Ohio St- So Antonio Pittman (5'11 195), Fr Chris Wells (6'1 230) -(9.0)

Advantage- Even

4) Wide Recievers
Texas- Jr Limas Sweed (6'5 215), Jr Billy Pittman (6'0 198), So Quan Cosby (5'11 200), Rs So Jordan Shipley (6'0 185), RS Fr TE Jermichael Finley (6'5 240) - (9.0)
Ohio State- Jr Ted Ginn, Jr (6'0 175), Jr Anthony Gonzo (6'0 195), bunch of underclassmen i dont know anything about -(9.0)

Advantage- Even

Defense
1) D-Line
Texas- Jr Frank Okam (6'5 315), Jr Derek Lokey (6'2 280), So Roy Miller (6'2 300), Fr Ben Alexander (6'0 298), Sr DE Brian Robison (6'3 265), Sr DE Tim Crowder (6'4 255)- (9.0)
2) Ohio State- Sr Quinn Pitcock (6'3 295), Sr David Patterson (6'3 285), So DE Alex Barrow (6'4 255)? -(8.0)

Advantage - Texas

2) Linebackers
Texas- Jr Robert Killebrew (6'2 230), Jr Drew Kelson (6'2 215), So Rashad Bobino (5'11 230), RS Fr Roddrick Muckelroy (6'2 230) -(8.5)
Ohio State- Sr John Kerr (6'1 245), Jr Marcus Freeman (6'2 230), So James Laurinaitis (6'3 231), ???? (7.5-8)

Advantage-Texas

3) Secondary
Texas- Sr FS Michael Griffin (6'0 205), Sr CB Tarrell Brown (6'0 200), Sr CB Aaron Ross (6'1 192), Jr SS Marcus Griffin (6'0 195), Jr CB Brandon Foster (5'9 180) - (9-9.5)
Ohio State- So CB Jamario O'Neal (6'1 180), So CB Malcom Jenkins (6'1 180), Sr SS Brandon Mitchell (6'3 205), Sr S Antonio Smtih (5'9 195), ???? - (7.5-8)

Advantage- Texas

Special Teams
Texas - PR Aaron Ross (9.0)
Ohio State- PR Ted Ginn (10.0)

Advantage - Ohio State

Ok, thats that. Took longer than I thought, but now maybe someone can help me with the rest of tOSU's starters, as well as some key backups, and that way, we can better break down unit vs unit.
Click to expand...

I think you underestimate our O-Line, which is quite apparent b/c you didn't even name one player on it. I also think you give UT too much credit in terms of receivers and running backs. I'd give us the advantage in each of those categories. Other than that, I pretty much agree.
 
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:smash: tOSU very well may win this year, I hope not but clearly they have a great shot.

If for some reason Texas is not able to pull out the win, I hope to god we get less of this than I saw this year


but they should have won this year also.
Click to expand...


There is nothing I that bothers me more than, " Welll we shoulda won but the ref...bla bla bla." "Well if we woulda just made that catch that we usually make" and so on...

It really gets under my skin. The only thing that bothers me more than our oponents saying it is when I hear my friends say it.....damn i getting pissed just typing this :grr:


anyway, heres to a good game, Hook'em Horns

:banger:
 
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Here's my take on the position comparisons:

QB - Huge advantage tOSU
RB - Even
WR - Even
TE - Even
OL - Texas

DL - slight edge to Texas
LB - Texas
DB - slight edge to Texas
 
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I understand that you'd be confused why I picked our secondary over your secondary. You lost Griffin/Huff and I believe 1 more right?? Thats great that you have 3 returning seniors. If you go by that analogy then you have to give us the nod at linebacker because we have 2 returning 5th year seniors. You guys lost talent and we lost talent. We're filling with people that got decent playing time and you're filling with people who got decent playing time. It could go either way and I almost called it a draw but my hands ended up typing OSU. I don't know what the size of your secondary is but I really like our size and speed. I believe all our Db's are under 4.4 and all but one is over 200 lbs. Plus if you throw in that many think A. Amos starts which many predict that'd give us another 6'1" 195 pound kid thats running 4.3's. Again I understand why you think Texas is better but I believe we'll be better off down the road in the season. Also Brandon Mitchell our 5th DB last year is now our 6th DB even though we lost 4 starters... It would seem to me that he should've been a starter seeing that we lost all four starters. This goes to show you we're not as depleted as many think

Look this is just my opinion and if you look at who I gave advantages to I'd say they're pretty fair and very even across the board. This is an OSU board, and you think us buckeye fans will give you the edge in every aspect of the game? You guys have a hell of a team and its probably a little deeper than OSU because you guys seem to take 30 in your recruiting classes all the time. However I think we're maybe a little more individually talent and thats just my opinion.

Both teams are so talented that I could sit here and say OSU has the advantage across the board, but the same could be done for Texas. For anyone to say that either Texas/OSU is better across the across the board is going to be awfully pissed off when the game is 20 to 20 going into the last minutes of the fourth. Neither team is that much better than the other tho....

Also these are our starters not the ones above this might help you guys a bit...

QB-Troy Smith/Justin Zwick
Tb- Antonio Pittman/Maurice Wells/Chris Wells
Fb-Stan White/ Dionte Johnson
Wr- Ted Ginn Jr./Anthony Gonzalez/ Roy Hall/Brian Robiskie/ Brian Hartline
OL- Alex Boone/ Steve Rehring/Doug Datish/ T.J Downing/ Kirk Barton

DE-Lawrence Wilson/Jay Richardson
DT-Quinn Pitcock/ David Patterson
Lb- Mike D'Andrea/ Marcus Freeman/James Laurinaitis/John Kerr
DB- Malcolm Jenkins/Antonio Smith/Jamario O'Neal/ Nick Patterson/ Anderson Russell/ Brandon Mitchell
 
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Things have been jumping around here. I'll first say that my prior post was meant to get you thinking that Ginn might not be the end all be all with regard to punt returning. I do think he is top 10, and maybe top 5. I think Ross is top 5 going into the season. In any case big punt and kick returns tend to come at somewhat random and unpredictable times, and there is no reason to expect that either team will have a big TD return in this game.

I'm also a big beleiver in that you compare the units that face each other not the ones who don't so it goes.

Texas OL Vs tOSU DL - Advantage Texas. I don't expect a huge push run blocking but I do expect the OL will neutralize the front four's pass rush. The tOSU front has always been a stand em up and let the LBs take care of things group, and I don't expect that to change. They are not a threat by scheme even if they were more experienced.

Texas RBs Vs tOSU LBs - advantage Texas mostly due to speed and quickness, but also power in the form of Melton. As fast as your LBs are, they are not elite sprinters.

Texas TEs Vs tOSU LBs - Tweedie has a big advantage as a blocker, while Finley does as a receiver. Tweedie as a receiver is even, while Finley as a blocker has to be considered a liability going in. Finley against your safeties is also a big mismatch. Overall advantage Texas as a expect 5 or 6 TD receptions and at least 1 TD from them.

Texas WRs Vs tOSU DBs - Advantage Texas. Sweed is a physical mismatch, Quan is both a physical and speed mismatch, Pittman has shown that he is dangerous against tOSU. Shipley is a technician that is tough to cover. Then there is Ramonce. This group is serious trouble for a young secondary, especially 1 on 1.

Texas QB Vs tOSU Defense - ? I honestly don't know what to expect, but given the above it is really a matter of the Texas QBs minimizing mistakes, rather than making plays. I feel pretty good about their ability to do that.

tOSU OL Vs Texas DL - Advantage Texas, Texas will have one of if not the best DL in the country, tOSUs O-line will not be that good.

tOSU RBs Vs Texas LBs - Advantage tOSU (LBs only), Even with more experience and young talent, I am not yet sold on our LBs. Now if I consider the entire 11 I think it is Advantage Texas. tOSU will not be able to run inside, and will have limited success outside due to the pursuit of our safeties.

tOSU WRs Vs Texas DBs - Advantage Texas, Texas brings back nearly identical experience as last year, and will do at least as good a job shutting down tOSUs receivers as they did last year.

tOSU TEs Vs Texas LBs - Advantage Texas primarily because Tressel tends to only bothers to throw to the TE a couple times a game, taking them out of the
equation.

Special Teams - Advantage Texas, Texas' special teams were great last year and will be so again this year, and they will be better than tOSU in nearly every category again.

For something completely different, I think it really comes down to turnovers. tOSU could not win at home with a +2 turnover margin last year. tOSU will need to be +3 to be in this game. That will be an interesting challenge, but our freshman QBs could give the game away.
 
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xrayrandy said:
Things have been jumping around here. I'll first say that my prior post was meant to get you thinking that Ginn might not be the end all be all with regard to punt returning. I do think he is top 10, and maybe top 5.
Click to expand...

Ginn...maybe one the top 5 returners in the country. :slappy:

Gee, and you wonder why you get railed nearly every time you post...
 
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xrayrandy said:
Things have been jumping around here. I'll first say that my prior post was meant to get you thinking that Ginn might not be the end all be all with regard to punt returning. I do think he is top 10, and maybe top 5. I think Ross is top 5 going into the season. In any case big punt and kick returns tend to come at somewhat random and unpredictable times, and there is no reason to expect that either team will have a big TD return in this game.

I'm also a big beleiver in that you compare the units that face each other not the ones who don't so it goes.

Texas OL Vs tOSU DL - Advantage Texas. I don't expect a huge push run blocking but I do expect the OL will neutralize the front four's pass rush. The tOSU front has always been a stand em up and let the LBs take care of things group, and I don't expect that to change. They are not a threat by scheme even if they were more experienced.

Texas RBs Vs tOSU LBs - advantage Texas mostly due to speed and quickness, but also power in the form of Melton. As fast as your LBs are, they are not elite sprinters.

Texas TEs Vs tOSU LBs - Tweedie has a big advantage as a blocker, while Finley does as a receiver. Tweedie as a receiver is even, while Finley as a blocker has to be considered a liability going in. Finley against your safeties is also a big mismatch. Overall advantage Texas as a expect 5 or 6 TD receptions and at least 1 TD from them.

Texas WRs Vs tOSU DBs - Advantage Texas. Sweed is a physical mismatch, Quan is both a physical and speed mismatch, Pittman has shown that he is dangerous against tOSU. Shipley is a technician that is tough to cover. Then there is Ramonce. This group is serious trouble for a young secondary, especially 1 on 1.

Texas QB Vs tOSU Defense - ? I honestly don't know what to expect, but given the above it is really a matter of the Texas QBs minimizing mistakes, rather than making plays. I feel pretty good about their ability to do that.

tOSU OL Vs Texas DL - Advantage Texas, Texas will have one of if not the best DL in the country, tOSUs O-line will not be that good.

tOSU RBs Vs Texas LBs - Advantage tOSU (LBs only), Even with more experience and young talent, I am not yet sold on our LBs. Now if I consider the entire 11 I think it is Advantage Texas. tOSU will not be able to run inside, and will have limited success outside due to the pursuit of our safeties.

tOSU WRs Vs Texas DBs - Advantage Texas, Texas brings back nearly identical experience as last year, and will do at least as good a job shutting down tOSUs receivers as they did last year.

tOSU TEs Vs Texas LBs - Advantage Texas primarily because Tressel tends to only bothers to throw to the TE a couple times a game, taking them out of the
equation.

Special Teams - Advantage Texas, Texas' special teams were great last year and will be so again this year, and they will be better than tOSU in nearly every category again.

For something completely different, I think it really comes down to turnovers. tOSU could not win at home with a +2 turnover margin last year. tOSU will need to be +3 to be in this game. That will be an interesting challenge, but our freshman QBs could give the game away.
Click to expand...

Well, at least now we know how the world looks through burnt orange glasses. :wink2:
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Ginn...maybe one the top 5 returners in the country. :slappy:

Gee, and you wonder why you get railed nearly every time you post...
Click to expand...

What's even more ridiculous is the fact that he puts Ross in the top 5. If you said to an impartial college football fan that Ted Ginn is not one of the top 5 returners in the country, the person would laugh in your face. If you said that Ross is one of the top 5 returners, they'd probably say, "Who in the world is Ross?"
 
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buckeyeboy said:
What's even more ridiculous is the fact that he puts Ross in the top 5. If you said to an impartial college football fan that Ted Ginn is not one of the top 5 returners in the country, the person would laugh in your face. If you said that Ross is, they'd ask who in the world Ross is.
Click to expand...

Good luck finding one of those. :wink2:
 
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xrayrandy said:
Things have been jumping around here. I'll first say that my prior post was meant to get you thinking that Ginn might not be the end all be all with regard to punt returning. I do think he is top 10, and maybe top 5. I think Ross is top 5 going into the season. In any case big punt and kick returns tend to come at somewhat random and unpredictable times, and there is no reason to expect that either team will have a big TD return in this game.

I'm also a big beleiver in that you compare the units that face each other not the ones who don't so it goes.

Texas OL Vs tOSU DL - Advantage Texas. I don't expect a huge push run blocking but I do expect the OL will neutralize the front four's pass rush. The tOSU front has always been a stand em up and let the LBs take care of things group, and I don't expect that to change. They are not a threat by scheme even if they were more experienced.

Texas RBs Vs tOSU LBs - advantage Texas mostly due to speed and quickness, but also power in the form of Melton. As fast as your LBs are, they are not elite sprinters.

Texas TEs Vs tOSU LBs - Tweedie has a big advantage as a blocker, while Finley does as a receiver. Tweedie as a receiver is even, while Finley as a blocker has to be considered a liability going in. Finley against your safeties is also a big mismatch. Overall advantage Texas as a expect 5 or 6 TD receptions and at least 1 TD from them.

Texas WRs Vs tOSU DBs - Advantage Texas. Sweed is a physical mismatch, Quan is both a physical and speed mismatch, Pittman has shown that he is dangerous against tOSU. Shipley is a technician that is tough to cover. Then there is Ramonce. This group is serious trouble for a young secondary, especially 1 on 1.

Texas QB Vs tOSU Defense - ? I honestly don't know what to expect, but given the above it is really a matter of the Texas QBs minimizing mistakes, rather than making plays. I feel pretty good about their ability to do that.

tOSU OL Vs Texas DL - Advantage Texas, Texas will have one of if not the best DL in the country, tOSUs O-line will not be that good.

tOSU RBs Vs Texas LBs - Advantage tOSU (LBs only), Even with more experience and young talent, I am not yet sold on our LBs. Now if I consider the entire 11 I think it is Advantage Texas. tOSU will not be able to run inside, and will have limited success outside due to the pursuit of our safeties.

tOSU WRs Vs Texas DBs - Advantage Texas, Texas brings back nearly identical experience as last year, and will do at least as good a job shutting down tOSUs receivers as they did last year.

tOSU TEs Vs Texas LBs - Advantage Texas primarily because Tressel tends to only bothers to throw to the TE a couple times a game, taking them out of the
equation.

Special Teams - Advantage Texas, Texas' special teams were great last year and will be so again this year, and they will be better than tOSU in nearly every category again.

For something completely different, I think it really comes down to turnovers. tOSU could not win at home with a +2 turnover margin last year. tOSU will need to be +3 to be in this game. That will be an interesting challenge, but our freshman QBs could give the game away.
Click to expand...

I notice that conspicuously absent from your "analysis" is your opinion of OSU QB vs. UT Defense. Although, I'm sure you have some reason that UT's D has the advantage. :roll1:
 
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