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Game Thread Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

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MililaniBuckeye said:
Sorry, but while last year's defense was excellent the 2002 defense ranks among our all-time best. Just think how well the 2002 defense would've shined if we had this year's offense instead of 2002's...
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sorry, but i don't think it would have. the difference in turnover margin between the two teams is 23: all things being equal, that means you'd need to add 23 more series on D for the '02 squad. i don't think that the '02 D could have spent that much more time on the field without giving up more points... even if you average the two, you'd get a +2 turnover margin, which would mean that the '02 D would still need to be on the field for 11 more series, which is a complete games' worth to equal that of the '05 D, or conversely, imagine if the '05 D would have been on the field for 11 FEWER series... even if you just take the discrepancy in giveaways, the '02 D has a 4 series advantage over the '05 unit.

don't get me wrong, i think that the '02 D was freaking FANTASTIC! but that doesn't mean that the '05 D would not have been comparable, if not BETTER had the '05 O not turned the ball over nine more times than the opponents.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Here's another example of where stats mean shit. Check this out: After Larry Johnson scored Penn State's lone TD at the end of the first quarter, our defense gave up only one more TD--that's one more TD--the rest of the regular season. Here's how that breaks down:

Penn State: 1 TD (shut out the last three quarters)
Minnesota: 1 FG
Purdue: 2 FGs
Illinois: 1 TD, 3 FGs
Michigan: 3 FGs

That's 1 TD in 19 quarters. The defense also didn't allow that 1 TD until the third quarter of the Illinois game, going 13 straight quarters without allowing a TD. Fucking amazing. The 2005 defense gave up almost as many points at Minnesota alone (31) than the 2002 defense gave up over the last 19 quarters of 2002 (34).

Sorry, but while last year's defense was excellent the 2002 defense ranks among our all-time best. Just think how well the 2002 defense would've shined if we had this year's offense instead of 2002's...
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"Bend but don't break" at its finest...that D was phenominal; the only thing that the '02 D lacked was a transcendent star like A.J. last year. If they had one of those a lot more people outside the Buckeye community would still be talking about them.
 
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D line

txbuckeye1983 said:
The thing is, we have 5 guys who have logged a lot of time on the dline. And I honestly think last year's (05) defense was the third best out of the last four years. Don't underestimate how good that 03 d was. It almost single handily got us back to the championship game that year. And what was all that defensive success in '03 predicated on? That's right, a spectacular defensive line. Interestingly enough, that line also had to replace two starters and had Darrion Scott moving inside to tackle, much like David Patterson this year.
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The D line will be just fine with the returning starters, the injured players, and the new linemen. THe linebackers and back four are the ones that have to get experienced in a hurry. and even there the linebackers have experience, kerr was freshman of the year in the big ten, freeman was a starter, Laurenitis played some, and grant was juco hotshot with 2 years experience. Grant just needs to learn the system. I figure we will be fine in the LB corps. The back four are the ones that need to get in football shape faster.

:oh: :io:
 
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lvbuckeye said:
don't get me wrong, i think that the '02 D was freaking FANTASTIC! but that doesn't mean that the '05 D would not have been comparable, if not BETTER had the '05 O not turned the ball over nine more times than the opponents.
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The TO margin means next to nothing to your point...in fact it hurts your point and supports mine...here's why:

1. Last year, the offense lost the ball 21 times. In 2002, it lost it 17 times. That means the 2005 only had to face four more drives due to turnovers than did the 2002 defense. I have no idea where you got "you'd need to add 23 more series on D for the '02 squad."

2. On the other side of the coin, the 2002 defense took the ball away 30 times while the 2005 defense took it away 12 times, yet you say that the 2005 defense is nearly as good? Don't punish the 2002 squad for being so far superior in creating turnovers.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
2. On the other side of the coin, the 2002 defense took the ball away 30 times while the 2005 defense took it away 12 times, yet you say that the 2005 defense is nearly as good? Don't punish the 2002 squad for being so far superior in creating turnovers.
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I agree the ability of a defense to create turnovers definately favors the 02 D not disfavors. It seems he woud be saying turnovers are counter productive.

As an aside the 02 defense played 2 more games than the 05.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott said:
I agree the ability of a defense to create turnovers definately favors the 02 D not disfavors. It seems he woud be saying turnovers are counter productive.

As an aside the 02 defense played 2 more games than the 05.
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Actually this is a good point to back to the earlier referenced coincidence of 183 points given up by both squads. In truth the '05 squad gave up fewer points than '02 - but this was in large part governed by the number of games played.

'05 is actually 173 points given up - Ohio State's site has a misprint (sorry lv - you should be able to trust the home score keeper :wink2:) over 12 games for a per game average of just below 14 and a half PPG.
'02 over 14 games gave up 183 points its true, which is 13 PPG almost dead nuts on.

Which, by my reckoning, means the '02 squad did the hard job of keeping that score down - and they did it through a longer schedule.

Perhaps someone should get the OSU site correctly updated.
 
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sandgk said:
'05 is actually 173 points given up - Ohio State's site has a misprint (sorry lv - you should be able to trust the home score keeper :wink2:) over 12 games for a per game average of just below 14 and a half PPG.
'02 over 14 games gave up 183 points its true, which is 13 PPG almost dead nuts on.
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14 + 25 + 6 + 6 + 10 + 24 + 17 + 31 + 2 + 7 + 21 + 20 does equal 183 points allowed.

Perhaps you used 22 for Texas (3 less) and 10 for Penn State (7 less) to get your total of 173, but those were tOSU's points for those games, not the points tOSU allowed.

What was the error you thought you saw on the tOSU site?

2002 allowed 13.07 per in 14 games.

2005 allowed 15.25 per in 12 games.
 
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BB73 said:
14 + 25 + 6 + 6 + 10 + 24 + 17 + 31 + 2 + 7 + 21 + 20 does equal 183 points allowed.

Perhaps you used 22 for Texas (3 less) and 10 for Penn State (7 less) to get your total of 173, but those were tOSU's points for those games, not the points tOSU allowed.

What was the error you thought you saw on the tOSU site?

2002 allowed 13.07 per in 14 games.

2005 allowed 15.25 per in 12 games.
Click to expand...

Well shiver my timbers

What was the error you thought you saw on the tOSU site?
Click to expand...

Apparently mine.

Still the PPG favors that '02 defense, only now more so.
 
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Canton Rep

[FONT=Verdana,Times New Roman,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Even without Young, Longhorns expect to keep rolling[/FONT]
Tuesday, August 8, 2006 [FONT=Verdana,Times New Roman,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]By JAIME ARON AP Sports Writer[/FONT]

The outlook for the Big 12 this season has zigged and zagged like a Vince Young broken-field run ever since the Texas quarterback sprinted into the end zone to win the national championship.
Winners of 20 straight games, the Longhorns would’ve been a certain preseason No. 1 — in the country, not just the conference — had Young stuck around Austin for his senior season. After months of saying he would, Young turned pro, leaving Texas without an experienced quarterback and lowering expectations for 2006.
They weren’t even picked to win their own division, the Big 12 South.
Oklahoma got the nod, in part because the Sooners went through the growing pains of breaking in a young quarterback last season. Sophomore Rhett Bomar won six of his last seven games and was only expected to get better, especially with running back Adrian Peterson returning to full strength.
Then, last week, Bomar was kicked off the team for violating NCAA rules.
So, ready or not, the Longhorns became the Big 12 favorites again.
Years of highly ranked recruiting classes have left Texas loaded with talent. Coach Mack Brown has 16 returning starters, including sophomore running back Jamaal Charles, and depth at nearly every position — except the most important one.
It was tough recruiting anyone to back up Young. Brown didn’t fret over it because he wasn’t expecting to need a replacement until 2007.
“I thought Vince would come back, very honestly; I might have been the only one in America that did,” said Brown, quickly adding that he believes Young made the right decision.
The next decision is Brown’s. Does he go with redshirt freshman Colt McCoy or Jevan Snead, who finished high school a semester early and began college in January?
“Both of those young guys exceeded our expectations in the spring,” Brown said. “They’ve shown great leadership. ... But we also will not know who they are in practice. We’ll have to wait until we put them in a pressure situation, in a ballgame, to learn more about them.”
If he hadn’t just won a national championship, detractors would be accusing Brown of making excuses. Not anymore.
He ripped off his “can’t win the big one” label by leading Texas on a run that’s featured the school’s first national title since 1969, the first conference title of his coaching career, two Rose Bowl victories and the end of a five-game losing streak to Oklahoma.
Young’s departure gives Brown some leeway this season, especially with Ohio State coming to Austin on Sept. 9. The Buckeyes will be looking to avenge a loss on their home turf last season and they’ll be chasing a freshman quarterback.
Or two.
“We will work really, really hard to try to separate the two at some point,” Brown said. “But since you do not hit your quarterbacks during practice, it will probably take game experience before we’ll all know which one will lead the team more readily.”
A capsule look at the teams in predicted order of finish:
South
TEXAS: Whoever wins the QB battle will still run the sprint draw that Young used to perfection, “but we probably won’t have the third down-and-30 scrambles that we had for first downs,” Brown said. ... Redshirt tight end Jermichael Finley (6-foot-5, 220 pounds) is drawing rave reviews. ... Starting safety Michael Griffin could be joined in the secondary by twin brother Marcus.
OKLAHOMA: Senior QB Paul Thompson will start his second straight opener for the Sooners. Bomar replaced him in Week 2 and Thompson was later moved to receiver. ... J.D. Quinn, who started four games at right guard last season and was Bomar’s roommate, also was thrown off the team. ... Peterson — who is within 1,086 yards of breaking Billy Sims’ school career record — was voted preseason offensive player of the year. LB Rufus Alexander was picked the top defender.
TEXAS TECH: After six years of leading the nation in passing while plugging in seemingly any ol’ quarterback, Mike Leach is finally going to have a highly touted prospect take over. But will it be sophomore Graham Harrell, a former Texas prep star, or redshirt freshman Chris Todd of Kentucky? ... The Red Raiders have gotten rid of AstroTurf and switched to FieldTurf.
TEXAS A&M: Sophomore QB Stephen McGee got his first start in the season finale against Texas because Reggie McNeal was hurt and won over fans with his tenacious effort, plus his 108 yards rushing and two TDs. ... Coach Dennis Franchione switched defensive coordinators, asking former Texas coordinator Gary Darnell to rebuild a secondary that ranked last in Division I-A.
BAYLOR: Look out for a new offense imported from Division II, where it averaged 364 passing yards and 40 points per game for West Texas A&M. ... The Bears are coming off a 5-6 season. Two overtime losses prevented them from having a winning record for the first time since the Big 12 began 10 seasons ago.
OKLAHOMA STATE: DE Victor DeGrate came up with the nickname “The Regulators” for the defense during a meeting last spring. ... After winning two NCAA heavyweight wrestling titles, Steve Mocco is trying football. He’ll be tried at defensive tackle, although he may not make it onto the field.
North
NEBRASKA: The Cornhuskers were the media’s pick to win the North. ... Coach Bill Callahan’s conversion to a passing offense resulted in an average of 96 yards rushing per game, worst in the Big 12 last season. Much more is expected this season from TBs Cody Glenn, Marlon Lucky, Brandon Jackson and juco transfer Kenny Wilson.
IOWA STATE: In his 12th season, Dan McCarney is now the dean of Big 12 coaches. ... DT Brent Curvey, LB Adam Carper and CB DeAndre Jackson are the only full-time starters in place from the unit that allowed the fewest points in the North division last year. ... Senior RB Stevie Hicks, who had three 100-yard games last season but also was slowed by injuries, says he’s 100 percent healthy.
COLORADO: New coach Dan Hawkins has won over players and fans since replacing Gary Barnett. Hawkins went 53-11 over five years at Boise State and much has been made of his fun-loving approach. ... Hawkins’ son, Cody, is a freshman competing for time at quarterback. Juniors Brian White and Bernard Jackson are the front-runners to replace Joel Klatt.
KANSAS: The Jayhawks should win more games simply because Texas A&M, Baylor and Oklahoma State replace Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Texas on their schedule. ... Jayhawks fans are excited about their new starting QB, freshman Kerry Meier, brother of Kansas State QB candidate Dylan Meier.
MISSOURI: Coming off their second bowl victory in 24 years, the Tigers must replace Brad Smith, a four-year starter at QB. ... Sophomore QB Chase Daniel is the favorite after leading Mizzou to an OT win over Iowa State when Smith was hurt.
KANSAS STATE: Bill Snyder, who turned the former “Mildcats” into a national power, retired after a second straight losing season and was replaced by 36-year-old Ron Prince, who had been Virginia’s offensive coordinator. ... The QB battle is between Dylan Meier, who missed last season with a shoulder injury; sophomore Allan Evridge and freshman Josh Freeman.
 
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