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Floods, Fossils, Science and Faith (Split from Global Warming)

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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
See, on this point, I prefer to simply take responsibility for my own actions, and don't expect anyone to bail me out. My God, on the other hand, doesn't "demand perfection" he "demands" I be the best me I can be, and that's about it.... Much like a Father treats a child.
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I have at least some evidence of the God that demands perfection from me. Where's the evidnece of a god that only demands your best.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;734079; said:
I have at least some evidence of the God that demands perfection from me. Where's the evidnece of a god that only demands your best.
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What evidence? Is there actually a bible passage or other divine instruction that demands perfection from human beings? I don't think that even Jesus claimed to be perfect.
 
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Jagdaddy;734086; said:
What evidence? Is there actually a bible passage or other divine instruction that demands perfection from human beings? I don't think that even Jesus claimed to be perfect.
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I have to agree that the assumption is that all are not perfect (have sinned) and can only be made perfect by the Grace of God.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;734003; said:
All I was saying is that law isn't and hasn't been the driving force for people for people to act moral, neither has approval from others, neither has dangers. Whether I want to see a movie or not is not a moral decision. Remeber that jihadists are convinced that what they are doing is going to get them God's approval. In other words they think they are obeying God. And sure approval from others is nice and all but if you really want something and the only thing stopping you is disapproval from others how often are you going to go ahead and do it? We might use approval for matters trivial matters, but not for major ones. Lets put it this way. Our society now encourages pedophilia. In fact you get a bonus 1000 dollars for every year of age under 14 for every pedophilic act you commit. Is that okay with you.
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Sorry, I don't buy "atheists have no reason to be moral" argument. Imagine, for argument's sake, that somehow, someone comes up with a conclusive disproof of the existence of God. What would happen to you? If you believe that God does not exist, there is no reason to be moral. So in the face of proof that God does not exist, you would apparently give in to whatever lust and laziness you might feel, abandon your wife and children (assuming you have either), steal and even murder thus wrecking what should have been a close, loving family?

How about an atheist like me? What would a conclusive disproof of the existence of God do to my moral stature? Considering that I don't believe in God to begin with, the answer is that a disproof of the existence of God would not cause me to change my moral views at all. But I think I can speak for most atheists when I say that committing crimes or abandoning one's family is not morally acceptable. As far as the atheist is concerned, the Christian assertion that "if God does not exist, then there is no reason to be moral" is false. Although, judging from their assertions, Christians seem to believe that it is wrong to act immoral only if God exists, atheists believe it is wrong to act immoral regardless of whether or not God exists, and this gives the atheist a much stronger moral foundation than the Christian.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;734119; said:
Since you're an atheist then prove me to morally why I shouldn't kill you or have sex with your daughter.
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The reason you shouldn't kill me or have sex with my daughter is because of your belief in God and the devine consequences it would bring you. Maybe the better question is why I wouldn't do those things to you based on my moral position (although if your daughter was over 21 and hot, I still might think about having sex with her. :wink2: ).

First and foremost is that I don't have any reason to. You haven't threatened me or my family with physical harm and I don't feel that I need to protect them from you, and I really have no intrerest in your daughter (even if she is over 21 and hot). Secondly, I can't think why it would be advantageous for me or my family to do so. And finally, it would most likely be illegal and I really don't want to sit in jail. There are dozens of other reasons too, but those are what first come to mind.
 
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Brewtus;734152; said:
The reason you shouldn't kill me or have sex with my daughter is because of your belief in God and the devine consequences it would bring you. Maybe the better question is why I wouldn't do those things to you based on my moral position (although if your daughter was over 21 and hot, I still might think about having sex with her. :wink2: ).

First and foremost is that I don't have any reason to. You haven't threatened me or my family with physical harm and I don't feel that I need to protect them from you, and I really have no intrerest in your daughter (even if she is over 21 and hot). Secondly, I can't think why it would be advantageous for me or my family to do so. And finally, it would most likely be illegal and I really don't want to sit in jail. There are dozens of other reasons too, but those are what first come to mind.
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this proves rationality can exsit even without the belief in God. lol (sarcasm btw)
 
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Brewtus;734152; said:
The reason you shouldn't kill me or have sex with my daughter is because of your belief in God and the devine consequences it would bring you. Maybe the better question is why I wouldn't do those things to you based on my moral position (although if your daughter was over 21 and hot, I still might think about having sex with her. :wink2: ).

First and foremost is that I don't have any reason to. You haven't threatened me or my family with physical harm and I don't feel that I need to protect them from you, and I really have no intrerest in your daughter (even if she is over 21 and hot). Secondly, I can't think why it would be advantageous for me or my family to do so. And finally, it would most likely be illegal and I really don't want to sit in jail. There are dozens of other reasons too, but those are what first come to mind.
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But that's not a moral proof you've given me. Its a proof based on circumstance. What if it somehow became advantageous to muder me or have sex with my daughter. What if you got a lot of a cash to murder me from the District Attorney who promises not to prosecute. Without God there can always be a situation where it is more advantageous to commit sin than not. What if you are Cuban dictator who makes the rules for your country and can do anything you want. What exactly would stop you except for your bigger next door neighbor what if you were the dictator of the biggest next door neighbor.
 
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t_BuckeyeScott;734167; said:
But that's not a moral proof you've given me. Its a proof based on circumstance. What if it somehow became advantageous to muder me or have sex with my daughter. What if you got a lot of a cash to murder me from the District Attorney who promises not to prosecute. Without God there can always be a situation where it is more advantageous to commit sin than not. What if you are Cuban dictator who makes the rules for your country and can do anything you want. What exactly would stop you except for your bigger next door neighbor what if you were the dictator of the biggest next door neighbor.
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I guess I don't understand what prevents atheists from going on killing sprees all the time then.... In fact, I can't say that I have ever heard of a killing spree brought on by atheism. I have heard of killing sprees brought on because "God told me to cleanse the world" and such.
 
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