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Game Thread FIESTA BOWL: tOSU 21, Texas 24 (01-05-09)

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I think the DBs are close. I think Texas does get the nod on the DL (Brad Shearer won the Outland in '77 and didn't get a mention).

It's worth noting that Tommy Nobis won the Maxwell POY award in '66, but tOSU gets the nod based on depth. Overall, the defenses appear pretty even to me.

EH, John Hicks finished second in the Heisman voting in '73. I'd give tOSU an edge on the OL, and Texas the nod at QB.

It's hard for either program to admit that RB is a wash, but both squads are absolutely loaded. tOSU's Bob Ferguson won the Maxwell in '61 and he's not even mentioned.

For me, TE is a wash, and the WRs give tOSU the overall nod on offense.
 
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Using the guys on the list, I'm not doubting OSU would look better. But the omissions for UT are even more glaring if you just consider NFL production. Wuensch was a 2-time AA and Dick Harris was a few times as well, in the mid-1940's. It seems like the author wanted to include a bunch of the old-timers, which is cool, but it's not going maximize the number of years in the NFL by including them. Not sure about Wuensch, but he was AA for the first two years of the wishbone, and those offensive linemen tended to be a bit smaller. He was drafted late in the draft and probably just gave up on being a pro.

Scott Appleton wasn't even an offensive lineman. He played defensive line and linebacker in college but was drafted as both a tackle and DL. Strange choice.

So if we're measuring NFL success/longevity, I would've included any combination of the following:
Jerry Sisemore
Justin Blalock
Derrick Dockery
Doug Dawson
Blake Brockermeyer
Dan Neil
Leonard Davis
Mike Williams
Harley Sewell
Bill Hughes
Bob McKay
Bob Simmons
Terry Tausch
Gene Chilton
Stan Thomas
Bud McFadin

Again, not complaining about the list. He did a good job for someone who doesn't follow UT football.
 
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Scott Appleton made everybody's AA list even though he played tackle at less than 200 pounds. Drafted by the Houston Oilers, less than a year later, he came in at close to 300 and had a long career.

Question for Texas fans: Did anyone talk about the weight shift? I would guess this was before steroids, but it wasn't before good weight lifting programs and a pretty solid knowledge of nutrition. I remember being shocked at seeing before and after photos of him in his rookie season and then nothing waqs said much after that.

How funny to see a mention of Bobby Lane on the day after the Lions set the gold standard for losing seasons. Those Bobby Lane led Detroit teams were real sumbitches and then a "washed up" Lane led the Steeler's to their first conference chamiponship some time in the 60's. Guy was the 50's equivilant of Bret Favre, gutsy, quick and always looking for some way to beat you.
 
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EngineerHorn;1365296; said:
I see some omissions any serious UT fan would catch, but nothing too major. That's a pretty good list from someone who isn't a Texas fan.

I think the teams are pretty even. Trying to compare running backs and defensive backs is impossible.

QB- Texas
RB- Tie. Ridiculous on both sides.
OL- Not sure, I don't know any of OSU's guys other than Pace. Tie I guess.
TE- Not sure either. A couple notable omissions I think. Another tie.
WR- OSU
DL- He either forgot a few guys or ranked them differently than I would. I want to say UT but I'm not sure of any of OSU's guys other than Vrabel and Smith. Texas I guess.
LB- OSU by quite a bit.
DB- Raymond Clayborn? Okay. I would have included Vasher, Stanley Richard, or Jerry Gray, but it's his list. Embarrassment of riches on both sides. Tie.
P, K, and KR- tie. Maybe OSU wins the tiebreaker because Erx was a money launderer.
Click to expand...

It did strike me as odd that some people were left off of the list but then i thought about who put the list together and was pretty impressed.
 
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Since I'm a young'in (at least by your aged-to-perfection standards, cinci), I was never really aware of his shift in weight. But I did know he was undersized in college because my dad liked the whole 'heart overcomes ability' motif when I was a kid.

I do know he had a problem with alcohol after his playing days were over, so that might be an indication of something that happened after his rookie year.
 
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BB73;1365391; said:
I think the DBs are close. I think Texas does get the nod on the DL (Brad Shearer won the Outland in '77 and didn't get a mention).

It's worth noting that Tommy Nobis won the Maxwell POY award in '66, but tOSU gets the nod based on depth. Overall, the defenses appear pretty even to me.

EH, John Hicks finished second in the Heisman voting in '73. I'd give tOSU an edge on the OL, and Texas the nod at QB.

It's hard for either program to admit that RB is a wash, but both squads are absolutely loaded. tOSU's Bob Ferguson won the Maxwell in '61 and he's not even mentioned.

For me, TE is a wash, and the WRs give tOSU the overall nod on offense.
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty fair.
 
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EngineerHorn;1365405; said:
Using the guys on the list, I'm not doubting OSU would look better. But the omissions for UT are even more glaring.......

So if we're measuring NFL success/longevity, I would've included any combination of the following:
Jerry Sisemore
Justin Blalock
Derrick Dockery
Doug Dawson
Blake Brockermeyer
Dan Neil
Leonard Davis
Mike Williams
Harley Sewell
Bill Hughes
Bob McKay
Bob Simmons
Terry Tausch
Gene Chilton
Stan Thomas

Again, not complaining about the list. He did a good job for someone who doesn't follow UT football.
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Not complaining either, so we will look at your list (Sisimore and Blalock in my orginal post)-

Derrick Dockery-6 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Doug Dawson-8 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Blake Brockermeyer-9 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Dan Neil-8 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Leonard Davis-8 seasons in the NFL and is an active player. 1 time Pro Bowler.

Mike Williams-4 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Harley Sewell-11 seasons in the NFL. 4 time Pro Bowler

Bill Hughes-5 seasons in the NFL, 1 time Pro Bowler

Bob McKay-9 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Bob Simmons- 7 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Terry Tausch- 8 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Gene Chilton- 6 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Stan Thomas- 4 seasons in the NFL. No other awards


So using the NFL as a barometer Texas' best OL in addtion to the orginal 5 would be Sewell, Davis and Hughes (who had his carreer cut short by WWII)

Again lets look at other OSU notiables

I had edited my orginal post with Bill Willis, but in case you missed it

Bill Willis- College Football Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Member of NFL's All Decade Team 1940's, 8 Seasons in the NFL, 3 time Pro Bowler, 3 time First Team All Pro

Or another notable

Lou Groza- 14 seasons in NFL AS A OL (7 more seasons as a kicker) As a OL 9 time Pro Bowler and 4 time First Team All Pro, Pro Football Hall of Fame

Others from OSU

LeCharles Bentley- 4 seasons in the NFL. 2 time Pro Bowler (career cut short by injury)

Chris Ward- 7 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Dave Foley- 9 years in the NFL. 1 time Pro Bowler

Rob Murphy- 3 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Jeff Uhlenhak-9 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Kurt Schumacher- 4 seasons in the NFL. No other awards

Tom DeLeone-13 seasons in the NFL. 2 time pro Bowler.

Rufus Mayes-11 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Douglas Van Horn-13 seasons in the NFL. No other awards.

Russell Thomas-4 season in the NFL. No other awards

Now let me add those players that never played in the NFL from OSU. Most were from the one platoon system, but were recognized for their line play.

Warren Armling-College Football Hall of Fame. Played 1944-1946

Jim Daniell-College Football Hall of Fame. Played 1939-1941

Gomer Jones-College Football Hall of Fame. Played 1933-1935

Aurealius Thomas-College Football Hall of Fame. Played 1955-1957

Gust Zarnas-College Football Hall of Fame. Played 1935-1937

So, by any objective measure OSU OL trumps Texas OL. Let review

Pro Football HOF- OSU 3 Texas 0

College Football HOF-
With 1 Platoon Player OSU 8 Texas 1
Without 1 Platoon Players OSU 3 Texas 1

Pro Football All Time Teams OSU 1 Texas 0

Number of Pro Bowl Appearences by OL Alumni- OSU 28 Texas 8

Number of selections as First Team All Pro by OL Alumni- OSU 13 Texas 0

About the only thing that you can say we are equal in is we both put about the same number of OL in the NFL.

If it is any consolation EH, with Bobby Layne I think you are way better at QB.

:osu:
 
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Beanie has been reported to be, in fact, human after all and confined by many of the limitations that govern normal people. Case in point: he's stuck in the airport... with Dom Tiberi

WBNS 10TV : Some Buckeyes Will Be Late To Arizona - WBNS-10TV, Central Ohio's News Leader

image_airport_stuck_280.jpg


COLUMBUS, Ohio — A few Buckeyes will be late getting to Phoenix, thanks to a little plane trouble. A chartered airplane carrying Ohio State head coach Jim Tressel, athletic director Gene Smith and others departed for the Fiesta Bowl without issue Monday morning, but another plane carrying myself and a handful of Ohio State players did not leave Columbus as scheduled.
Our non-stop flight to Phoenix was supposed to leave Port Columbus at 7:40 a.m., but the flight was delayed after a broken part was discovered on the aircraft's brakes. We are waiting for a replacement part to be delivered to Columbus from Pittsburgh, and the airline folks tell us that our plane will leave Columbus around noon.
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That's some ace reporting there, Dom.
 
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Take out Hughes and add Bud McFadin- 5 time Pro Bowler as an iron man. Here I am bitching about omissions and I forget him. There's more but they're just 2-4 year players.

But even so, that is an impressive list for OSU OL. I'd say there's about equal depth but OSU's top 5 are indeed more impressive than UT's top 5, if we're using NFL success as a stadard. I'll concede that to OSU.

It would be interesting to see cumulative seasons of All-Americans at each school to see if there's any correlation.
 
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