Everett Withers (Off Analyst Texas Longhorns)

[kujirakira]

There isn't anything resembling a system to begin with.
The scheme changes every week between various 4-3, nickel, and 3-3-5 coverages.
"experience" in this non-system hasn't counted for anything on the field. Williams struggles because of poor tackling. Burrows looked lightyears ahead of Armani; despite being targeted several times when he came in for Doran. Indiana went after him, and he held up.

 

[pnuts34]

The talent might be better but not the experience in general and especially in the system.

If I had to guess, I'd say the number one biggest problem right now is a bunch of young players who don't understand an overly complicated defense.

Just a theory of mine, but I believe that is why guys like Pitt Brown, Armani Reeves and Cam Williams are seeing the field while Vonn Bell, Cam Burrows and Trey Johnson (not to mention all the redshirts) have not.

Experience is trumping pure talent but unfortunately the experienced players aren't up to Ohio State's standards right now.

That is absolutely the coaches fault and I blame them for not simplifying things in an effort to let the youngsters make a bigger impact. In addition to finding a leader and football player, they reportedly simplified things substantially for Boren last season which I believe made a substantial difference in the Ds overall performance.

If the system continues to be too complicated for even the best talent to excel in because they're thinking too much (hello Sabino and Curtis Grant) then that is a major problem.

However, given the overall attrition on the team (look at the 2009 and 2010 classes- they're almost at the 2003 level of non-contributors and they would be the guys who should know and help teach the system right now) combined with injuries this season, I am willing to give the defensive coaches another season.

I do expect to see significant improvement next year or I will be first in line demanding changes be made.

Edit: oh yeah, and the "experienced" players like Williams and Reeves have only had a few years to learn the system so I use that term loosely and relatively speaking. Once again, go back and look at the attrition from the '09 and '10 classes- or just go back and look at my post a few comments back.

Idk if our scheme is all that complicated, IMO. The talent level of the guys we've recruited is at a very high level, and many of these guys, if they didn't commit to Osu would've went to schools with schemes even more or just as complicated. Teams like Alabama, LSU, FSu also have what would be considered complicated defenses, and most of our players from the south at least, would've went to those schools. Why is it that they can play frosh successfully in their systems, but we can't in ours?

I agree on the attrition Being very high and were certainly feeling the affects of it now. But the guys we lost still wouldn't have been the type of players this staff was looking for and would've taken up roster space. Urban is in a very different position entering Osu than when he entered Florida. At Florida, Ron zoom recruited kids at a level that fit into urbans system, and he had veterans with speed. At Osu it seems like he's having to literally make this team from the ground up the way he wants it. Our current roster is one that tress would've loved, and had more success with, especially on defense. For a coach that is creating a team from scratch and has 1 loss in 2yrs, is a damn good coaching job. I'm hoping the next 2yrs, we see this defense tyrn into the ball hawking, QB destroying, LB heat seeking missiles that he had while at UF. And if you look at our few recruiting classes with urban, he's doing such a thing.

 

[buckeyebri]

I just go back to the BIG Championship and look at MSUs defense. Was their talent better than ours, I can't buy into that for a minute. Were there huge holes in their secondary letting receivers run wide open like the Buckeyes have all year, not that I saw. Did they play 10 yd cushions on the receivers at the line of scrimmage and then back up at the snap, not that I saw.

I stand with Pnuts on this...

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

I just go back to the BIG Championship and look at MSUs defense. Was their talent better than ours, I can't buy into that for a minute. Were there huge holes in their secondary letting receivers run wide open like the Buckeyes have all year, not that I saw. Did they play 10 yd cushions on the receivers at the line of scrimmage and then back up at the snap, not that I saw.

I stand with Pnuts on this...

There has been a ton of attrition. At first i understand, but we have had attrition in recent classes that the current staff recruited. Why? These are not great offenses we are facing, not great quarterbacks. Other teams are taking less talented guys and developing them better. If im a highly rated CB and see this lack of development im not going to OSU.

 

[ShowMeBuck]

I'm willing to give all of the defensive coaches somewhat of a pass over the past two seasons. It has been documented at LB, but injuries and players leaving the program really caught up to the team this year in the entire back 7.

Here's the thing. I totally get your point......but if the offensive side of the ball had as many injuries, transfers and misses do you think they would still rank as low as the defense has this year? That's the best litmus test here in my opinion.

Your point is a valid one if the D ranked higher in passing stats, etc. The best D coach IMO is Vrabel and the play of his unit tells the story. The secondary however was poor and in general we were just outcoached in many games. It's a chess match against the OC on the other side of the field and we lost many times. I just don't think the same would be nearly as true if the offense had the same personel issues as the D faced this year. That's because coaching is better on that side of the ball. Hands down.

If I had to guess, I'd say the number one biggest problem right now is a bunch of young players who don't understand an overly complicated defense.

"If I had to guess, I'd say the number one biggest problem right now is a bunch of young players who don't understand an overly complicated defense." -Buckeye86

BINGO, you nailed it.

 

[jlb1705]

I think they absolutely did have more talent on the field. That talent (especially in the defensive backfield) is part what allowed them to walk the DBs up so close.

I don't see why people just automatically assume that Ohio State had more talent on defense than MSU did. Over the last three years, Ohio State has only had one more player drafted into the NFL than MSU has. I guess everybody looks at high school star ratings and assumes that talent is there or not there. Nevermind that those star ratings are given by people who don't coach or recruit for a living. If those people were THAT good at identifying talent they'd be hired to do it to help people win football games instead of being hired to do it for entertainment.

I think people look at three-star recruits and think think that they only way they turn out to be good is through coaching. Sometimes that's the case, but sometimes it's just talent. 3-star guys like AJ Hawk or Malcolm Jenkins don't see the field as freshmen because they lacked talent when they stepped on campus but got enough good coaching in fall camp to make them ready for the big stage. There are plenty of three-star guys out there that have talent, and sometimes it doesn't need brilliant coaching to unlock it, it just needs to not be overlooked.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

I think they absolutely did have more talent on the field. That talent (especially in the defensive backfield) is part what allowed them to walk the DBs up so close.

I don't see why people just automatically assume that Ohio State had more talent on defense than MSU did. Over the last three years, Ohio State has only had one more player drafted into the NFL than MSU has. I guess everybody looks at high school star ratings and assumes that talent is there or not there. Nevermind that those star ratings are given by people who don't coach or recruit for a living. If those people were THAT good at identifying talent they'd be hired to do it to help people win football games instead of being hired to do it for entertainment.

I was at that game and I can say, without a doubt, Sparty was more talented on defense....esp. in the back 7. I think our D line probably is a tad better. Their back 4 is one of the best in the country; I think all 4 will play in the NFL. Their 2 corners are fantastic. We may have more young talent on paper, but you cannot put a price on veteran players being coached up by great teachers. Eventually we'll wash them out, that's why they had better savor that win. Dantonio has maxed that program out, Urban is just getting started.

 

[jwinslow]

The problem is if you give narduzzi the buckeye players for 3 years, they would be a lot more disciplined and loose.

There are talent excuses for not being great. There is no excuse to resemble indiana against mediocre to solid qbs.

 

[Taosman]

Just image for one second what this defense would have been without a national leading 40 sacks! Yikes!

 

[AKAK]

The problem is if you give narduzzi the buckeye players for 3 years, they would be a lot more disciplined and loose.

There are talent excuses for not being great. There is no excuse to resemble indiana against mediocre to solid qbs.

Nobody's making excuses for the lack of talent on the O-Line.

 

[NastyNatiBuck]

If I had to guess, I'd say the number one biggest problem right now is a bunch of young players who don't understand an overly complicated defense.

Just a theory of mine, but I believe that is why guys like Pitt Brown, Armani Reeves and Cam Williams are seeing the field while Vonn Bell, Cam Burrows and Trey Johnson (not to mention all the redshirts) have not.

Trey Johnson has been hurt since early in the season, right? I seem to remember hearing that somewhere. I thought he looked good when he played early on. He was always around the ball when he was in.

 

[RuGettinIt]

I think they absolutely did have more talent on the field. That talent (especially in the defensive backfield) is part what allowed them to walk the DBs up so close.

I don't see why people just automatically assume that Ohio State had more talent on defense than MSU did. Over the last three years, Ohio State has only had one more player drafted into the NFL than MSU has. I guess everybody looks at high school star ratings and assumes that talent is there or not there. Nevermind that those star ratings are given by people who don't coach or recruit for a living. If those people were THAT good at identifying talent they'd be hired to do it to help people win football games instead of being hired to do it for entertainment.

I think people look at three-star recruits and think think that they only way they turn out to be good is through coaching. Sometimes that's the case, but sometimes it's just talent. 3-star guys like AJ Hawk or Malcolm Jenkins don't see the field as freshmen because they lacked talent when they stepped on campus but got enough good coaching in fall camp to make them ready for the big stage. There are plenty of three-star guys out there that have talent, and sometimes it doesn't need brilliant coaching to unlock it, it just needs to not be overlooked.

So giving MSU their due in the defensive backfield, is there any reason why we couldn't play tighter coverage with Roby and Grant? I would believe these two have the talent to play tighter. Is it really that we are at a disadvantage schematically with our safeties and our LBs that have us playing so far off of the receivers? I feel like they are playing passively because this is the scheme and the coaching and not the talent at those two positions.

 

[Bestbuck36]

I always said I can live with mistakes made in effort. I can't stomach mistakes made out of stupidity or ill-preparedness.

If our guys get beat by athletes but are right there in the play, I'll live with that. When people are running wide open down the field and guys look lost......

 

[Tlangs]

I always said I can live with mistakes made in effort. I can't stomach mistakes made out of stupidity or ill-preparedness.

If our guys get beat by athletes but are right there in the play, I'll live with that. When people are running wide open down the field and guys look lost......

^ This cost us the B1G and a shot at the title. Roby got hurt, his replacement came in and flat out played the wrong coverage on 2 plays that gave MSU the 4 point lead. First the big gainer down the sideline and then the touchdown. To me, guys playing the wrong coverage is coaching. If a guy doesn't know the calls, he shouldn't be in the game. On the touchdown pass all we needed was an extra half a second to sack the QB. If Reeves was playing his 3rd of the endzone instead of follwing the receiver accross the field, the QB would have had to eat that sack. We would still have had a 1 point lead or a possible miss/block FG. So frustrating. I can handle getting beat. But when you leave 1/3 of the endzone without coverage because you play the wrong coverage....that is irritating.

 

[Bestbuck36]

^ This cost us the B1G and a shot at the title. Roby got hurt, his replacement came in and flat out played the wrong coverage on 2 plays that gave MSU the 4 point lead. First the big gainer down the sideline and then the touchdown. To me, guys playing the wrong coverage is coaching. If a guy doesn't know the calls, he shouldn't be in the game. On the touchdown pass all we needed was an extra half a second to sack the QB. If Reeves was playing his 3rd of the endzone instead of follwing the receiver accross the field, the QB would have had to eat that sack. We would still have had a 1 point lead or a possible miss/block FG. So frustrating. I can handle getting beat. But when you leave 1/3 of the endzone without coverage because you play the wrong coverage....that is irritating.

Exactly.

It wasn't just the MSU game though and THAT is the most frightening thing of all. Why weren't these things fixed prior to The Game, or the BiG championship? There are just far too many questions that no one has the answers to. Grrr