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Everett Withers (Off Analyst Texas Longhorns)

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Interesting data points from a 247 posting:

- Started by: BuckinUp
  • DISCLAIMER... I am simply showing the ranking of passing defensive statistic while Withers was the DB coach at his coaching stops. Withers is an AMAZING recruiter, that cannot be ignored..

  1. Tennesee Titans DB coach (out of 32 teams)
    2001: 32nd
    2002: 25th
    2003: 30th
    2004: 26th
    2005: 17th
    2006: 26th

    Minnesota Gophers: DB coach and DC (out of 120 teams)
    2007: 115th

    North Carolina Tarheels: DB coach (out of 120 teams)
    2008: 85th
    2009: 14th
    2010: 50th
    2011: 78th

    OSU: DB coach (out of ~125 teams)
    2012: 78th
    2013: 104th

    Statistics can be manipulated and used however you want them. There are a myriad of factors that are involved in "rankings" I just thought it was interesting the defensive passing rankings of Withers' coached DB's were below average at best.
 
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pnuts34 said:
So in a nutshell, is the consensus on Withers, a fantastic recruiter but below average coach?
Click to expand...

I don't know about consensus, but that's how I've started to feel over the past 2 months.
The LB situation is just barren right now... not sure how much Fickell is to blame for that, but 6 guys on scholarship including 2 true freshmen. And having seen 5 of those guys, I completely understand why Perry and Grant are starting.
The DB situation, however, the manpower and talent is there. And looking at the DB situation, not sure why certain players are still seeing the field over, say, Burrows. We all expected the secondary to be a rock coming into this year... instead it's been a cluster[]
 
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I'm willing to give all of the defensive coaches somewhat of a pass over the past two seasons. It has been documented at LB, but injuries and players leaving the program really caught up to the team this year in the entire back 7.


CB
2009
**** Dominic Clarke - not with program
2010
**** Bradley Roby - starter, played through injury most of season
NR Adam Griffin - not with program (injuries)
2011
**** Doran Grant - starter
**** DerJuan Gambrell - not with program
2012
**** Armani Reeves - backup, hasn't lived up to 4-star billing
**** Najee Murray - not with program

S
2009
**** CJ Barnett - starter
**** Corey Brown - career backup forced into starting role this season
**** Jamie Wood - injuries
2010
**** Christian Bryant - injured
*** Chad Hagan - not with program (injuries)
2011
**** Ron Tanner - special teams? hasn't lived up to 4-star billing
*** Jeremy Cash - not with program
2012
**** Devan Bogard - injured
*** Tyvis Powell - starter at nickel

LB
2009
**** Storm Klein - graduated
*** Jordan Whiting - not with program
***** Dorian Bell - not with program
**** Johnathan Newsome - not with program
2010
**** - Scott McVey - not with program (injuries)
**** - Jamel Turner - not with program
2011
**** Ryan Shazier - starter
***** Curtis Grant - starter, battled injuries all season
*** Connor Crowell - not with program
2012
**** Josh Perry - starter
**** Camren Williams - backup, hasn't lived up to 4-star billing
**** David Perkins - not with program
*** Luke Roberts - not with program

Freshmen
CB
**** Cam Burrows - backup
**** Gareon Conley - special teams or redshirt?
**** Eli Apple - redshirt

S
***** Vonn Bell - backup
**** Jayme Thompson - special teams or redshirt?
**** Darron Lee - redshirt

LB
**** Trey Johnson - backup
*** Chris Worley - special teams or redshirt?
***** Mike Mitchell - redshirt
 
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kujirakira said:
I don't know about consensus, but that's how I've started to feel over the past 2 months.
The LB situation is just barren right now... not sure how much Fickell is to blame for that, but 6 guys on scholarship including 2 true freshmen. And having seen 5 of those guys, I completely understand why Perry and Grant are starting.
The DB situation, however, the manpower and talent is there. And looking at the DB situation, not sure why certain players are still seeing the field over, say, Burrows. We all expected the secondary to be a rock coming into this year... instead it's been a cluster[]
Click to expand...


And don't the DBs, more specifically the safeties fall on withers? Which has been the worst part of the defense, next to the CBs. Are the kids not ready in the coaches eyes, or were they evaluated wrong?
But yet he's been pretty important in getting a number of southern guys on our team like trey Johnson, vonn bell, and Raekwon McMillan? Such a conundrum to keep him or not...
 
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buckeyebri said:
You can get all the talent you want, but if you can't coach them up pretty soon you won't get the talent....
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The point of my post was that of the talent they've gotten, a significant portion was either not on the team or injured this season.

The talent and experience hit a low point the last two years but both are going to go up exponentially in the near future- but not in time for the Orange Bowl unfortunately.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
The point of my post was that of the talent they've gotten, a significant portion was either not on the team or injured this season.

The talent and experience hit a low point the last two years but both are going to go up exponentially in the near future- but not in time for the Orange Bowl unfortunately.
Click to expand...
I think there was talent in the secondary this year that was unrealized. That said, I should have quoted Pnuts relative to his conundrum comment as that is more what I was referring to...
 
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buckeyebri said:
I think there was talent in the secondary this year that was unrealized. That said, I should have quoted Pnuts relative to his conundrum comment as that is more what I was referring to...
Click to expand...
I realize that and was commenting on how I don't believe it is fair to judge Withers to this point based on the talent that has been available, the small amount of time to coach players and for players to learn the system (and in particular to learn to communicate with one another in the secondary) which was exacerbated by injuries, and the unrealistic expectation that all superstar freshman should immediately be able to start.

I think Meyer is going to stick with his guys for another year and I expect there to be significant improvements.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
I realize that and was commenting on how I don't believe it is fair to judge Withers to this point based on the talent that has been available, the small amount of time to coach players and for players to learn the system (and in particular to learn to communicate with one another in the secondary) which was exacerbated by injuries, and the unrealistic expectation that all superstar freshman should immediately be able to start.

I think Meyer is going to stick with his guys for another year and I expect there to be significant improvements.
Click to expand...
I agree I don't think any changes are coming unless a coach leaves on their own.
 
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We have 16 DBs on scholarship. More than any other position.
Granted 8 of those are true frosh, but 6 are also upper classmen. It's hard to argue the talent isn't there.
But it's not just fleshing out talent that concerns me, it's the coaches' understanding of where that talent is at. I don't want to bash players but specifically a CB that comes in a lot for dime or when Roby is injured should have been getting spelled a long time ago. Not really understanding why we never tried somebody else behind Bryant either. Unlike the LB situation, where it's obvious why Grant and Perry are ahead of Williams, seeing how Burrows performed in relief of Doran really leaves me wondering why he's down the depth chart compared to the guy next to him blowing assignment after assignment.
And it makes me question if that wouldn't be the same at Safety if Powell or Tanner had been given opportunities earlier in the season.
 
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I still go back to...
numbers being what they are doesn't Ohio State have better talent than, say, Cal? Illinois? Buffalo? The DBs and LBs have been simply awful at times and using the eye test what did those teams do? They poked holes in paper soft coverage and took advantage of horrible angles by the safeties. That's coaching. The angles have been bad all season long and have resulted in HUGE plays. The fact that the DBs seem to have gotten worse as the season has gone on speaks to coaching, not talent.
 
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ysubuck said:
I still go back to...
numbers being what they are doesn't Ohio State have better talent than, say, Cal? Illinois? Buffalo? The DBs and LBs have been simply awful at times and using the eye test what did those teams do? They poked holes in paper soft coverage and took advantage of horrible angles by the safeties. That's coaching. The angles have been bad all season long and have resulted in HUGE plays. The fact that the DBs seem to have gotten worse as the season has gone on speaks to coaching, not talent.
Click to expand...
The talent might be better but not the experience in general and especially in the system.

If I had to guess, I'd say the number one biggest problem right now is a bunch of young players who don't understand an overly complicated defense.

Just a theory of mine, but I believe that is why guys like Pitt Brown, Armani Reeves and Cam Williams are seeing the field while Vonn Bell, Cam Burrows and Trey Johnson (not to mention all the redshirts) have not.

Experience is trumping pure talent but unfortunately the experienced players aren't up to Ohio State's standards right now.

That is absolutely the coaches fault and I blame them for not simplifying things in an effort to let the youngsters make a bigger impact. In addition to finding a leader and football player, they reportedly simplified things substantially for Boren last season which I believe made a substantial difference in the Ds overall performance.

If the system continues to be too complicated for even the best talent to excel in because they're thinking too much (hello Sabino and Curtis Grant) then that is a major problem.

However, given the overall attrition on the team (look at the 2009 and 2010 classes- they're almost at the 2003 level of non-contributors and they would be the guys who should know and help teach the system right now) combined with injuries this season, I am willing to give the defensive coaches another season.

I do expect to see significant improvement next year or I will be first in line demanding changes be made.

Edit: oh yeah, and the "experienced" players like Williams and Reeves have only had a few years to learn the system so I use that term loosely and relatively speaking. Once again, go back and look at the attrition from the '09 and '10 classes- or just go back and look at my post a few comments back.
 
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